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RBC13J - Gregarious Germans (Monarch)

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Sir Bugsy, Mar 15, 2004.

  1. Sir Bugsy

    Sir Bugsy Civ.D.

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    We are the Gregarious, sociable, :beer: drinking Germans. We aren't out to rule Europe. :lol:

    Here is the introduction. Please note our UU is the Knight (5.3.2)


    Here is our kingdom


    Here is the starting tech tree:


    I have just started reading the civilopedia myself, so I won't sit here and pretend to know everything. Just like the other scenarios, it will be very important to read it.

    Roster

    barbslinger - up
    Rubberjello
    Pokiste
    Bugs
     
  2. Sir Bugsy

    Sir Bugsy Civ.D.

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    Start File

    Let's make the roster:

    Barbslinger
    Rubberjello
    Pokiste
    Bugs
     
  3. barbslinger

    barbslinger Gun blast'n shot drinker

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    I'll also wait for any comments. Here come the knights! Tally ho!
     
  4. Rubberjello

    Rubberjello Chieftain

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    Checking in here. I have actually played the Germans in this scenario before (Emporer level), and had quite a bit of fun with them! I was able to build 3-4 Wonders, investigate a few of the other tech trees, and staged a huge Crusade of Jerusalem near the end of the game.

    Notes:
    Most people don't want to cut down any forests, because they act the same as mined bonus Grasslands in this scenario! :D But Germany may have to do some of this eventually, as we have a "lot" of forest.

    Positives:
    1. Lot's of early contacts, but hard to get a ship out to get contact with all the Med. civs.
    2. High shield cities! We should have no problem building the Holy Roman Empire Wonder and vaulting ahead of everyone.
    3. Pretty central location. We can expand in all directions around our capital (by conquest mostly!)
    4. We can use our King units for contacts/fog busters for the first 20-30 turns without undue risk. With movement of 2, they work well.

    Negatives:
    1. Luxes are scarce.
    2. Really tight borders - not very much room to expand before hitting the Burgundians to the West and South, Danes to the North, Poles to the East, and Bulgars/Magyars to the SE. No real REX phase here, so we might consider churning out some settlers before granaries?
    3. Tough call on Tech tree. Most likely Min. research on either HBR or Norse Tradition (to get that kick-butt Blacksmith build!). We should most likely go for HBR though, as we are going to probably have "border disputes" with the Burgundians right away!
    4. Danes - With Berzerks they can get really nasty. They run out of room fairly quickly and will declare war at the drop of a hat (axe?)
     
  5. Pokiste

    Pokiste Chieftain

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    I' am her and will open one bier. It's good for thinking;)
    Zum Wohl
    :beer:

    Pokiste

    PS! Thoughts will follow...
     
  6. Pokiste

    Pokiste Chieftain

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    It’s good to have experienced teampartners in first ever successiongame :D I think that I have.
    I wrote down some initial thoughts, what are based at the experience of my previous game, where i played england at monarch level.

    Problem will be territory gain at the beginning, as we are surrounded with different size powercenters. In my middel age england game germany was abel to gain only some additional citys and was minor power...
    There are some free space in the east, but I belive, that our strategic direction schould be west with aim to reunite divided Franks (france and burgundy) under king of Holly Roman Empire, collect two lost relicts and bring all three back to Jerusalem.
    Main reasons suppoerting proposal to invade west or south- west are following:
    *in burgundy and france we will get riverside citys with infrastructure –saves time and workers.
    *two relicts as additional VP-s.
    *access to mediterrain for landing near Jerusalem
    *second lux... There are some sheeps in Alps ;)
    *if we have time and manpower we can attack weak Pyrenees peninsula civ’s. In east we must mess with possibly strong russia and turks.
    And if we turn to west I belive, that it is reasonable to keep and support Poland as shield against rus, turks and scandis.

    About research: I agree with rubberjello that we must start with HBR and continue with nordic tech’s for blacksmiths. And when we have horseman we can send one out to get contacts with turks and rus.

    Relicts. I had very interesting experience: after I loaded holy grail into knight and loaded first time for channel crossing and later for landing preparations at southern coast of france the knight who was carring relict lost all markings that he is the ONE. When my my invasionfleet was some tiles away form Jerusalem, I suddenly discovered, that I have 20 knights and no idea which one I schould keep back if i don’t want lose holy grail to some stuppid assassin. Proposal: let’s rename relictcarriers.

    And plan B or Hack and Slash: Lets cut landroad throught the magyars, bulgars, byz and Abbasids to the Jerusalem. Very bloody and I don’t know is it realistic at all:)

    Pokiste
     
  7. Sir Bugsy

    Sir Bugsy Civ.D.

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    I like Pokiste's plan. Very simple and effective.

    Capture relics. Build huge army. Take to coast. Build huge navy. Sail to the holy land. Capture Jerusalem and win game.

    I also agree with initial research plan. I'm not sure what pace to research at though. If this is like Fall of Rome, I can't see a 500 turn research pace.
     
  8. Rubberjello

    Rubberjello Chieftain

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    Max research is 40 turns. I really think we should shoot for Holy Roman Empire Wonder - we have a good shot at it. Otherwise, take it to the Burgundians hard (as suggested above), and pray that the Danes keep their noses out of our business. Using Poland as a shield is a good idea, although we need to grab some early territory from them before they snag it and it would be a very productive part of our core. Agree to eventual snag of at least one other relic and then a Grand Crusade to top it all off.

    A note also. The Franks are usually pretty strong in this scenario. It might be a good idea to hurt them before our invasion force leaves our shores, so they don't backstab us. (Assuming they are still around at that point.)
     
  9. Pokiste

    Pokiste Chieftain

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    Maybe we should follow classic German Schlieffen plan with main thrust throught north Burgundy toward Paris and Orlean's. If we take this two city's and one more at the banks of Seine France will calm down. And then the Cordovans will think, that time is come...
    With this game I start really understand historic german geopolitical dilemma about war in two fronts. Situation will be bad if france and burgundy will unite against us... and hire danes....
    :crazyeye:

    Some more thoughts to initial game:
    Holly Roman Empire is realy must. I lost it with only two turns to poland in my previous game. And with HRE we can get fast access to nordic techtree. And bigger possibilitys for more leaders :)

    Two quick settlers are must have to, because we have only two or three good cityspots in east. One east from Bremen and second NE from Regensburg. And many applicants:(

    Pokiste
     
  10. Sir Bugsy

    Sir Bugsy Civ.D.

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    Well with that bit of wisdom, I suppose Slinger can kick this off any time he would like.
     
  11. barbslinger

    barbslinger Gun blast'n shot drinker

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    I'm thinking initially we are going to need some barracks, settlers and a temple in the far north to get the cow from the Viking city. Have to stay ahead on culture there. There is a horse down south that looks like a decent city site. After barracks build around 15 warriors for sword upgrade after hooking up iron and take to whomever we decide.
    I'll send some boys for contact gathering too. I may even use a King or two due to the 2 movement. They have the same defense as a warrior and though I've never played this scenario I don't think they will be attacked in the first 6-8 turns. Move them out around 8 squares for contact and then head home.
    On research it looks like we can get HBR in 25. Is this what we want? Then castle building to get to next tree. I think the smithing tech looks nice for factories too. When can we trade for them? If anyone knows this do tell.
    I'll be playing tonight after reviewing the new techs some more.
     
  12. barbslinger

    barbslinger Gun blast'n shot drinker

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    I don't think HBR is the way to go. As previosly stated I like the idea of factories so I'll be heading towards that and we can trade for the HBR and castle building. I also now like a rushed curraugh out of the northern city and then a temple. Strasburg also needs a temple. Initially I'll be going for contacts and buildup of warriors w/brax for sword upgrade. Hope the Danes play nice they have a lot of forces near our northern city.
     
  13. barbslinger

    barbslinger Gun blast'n shot drinker

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    RBC13J – 843AD – After much consideration I do the following. Research, I had a difficult time with this decision because I really want HBR but it is probably going to be discovered long before we get to it in 25 so I’m taking the rote towards the coveted blacksmiths with Norse Tradition in 40. We make +17gpt.
    The cities do the following: Salzburg > Temple in 10 for the wines. Regensburg our only city with improvements has the palace, a temple, barracks and market gets a granary for worker/settler use. Salzburg will be able to pump some warriors for upgrade after temple and brax. Augsburg > Brax for warrior pumping. Strasbourg and Wurtzburg > temples for cultural pressure. Naumburg > Brax. Hildesheim > worker with its food surplus. Bremen > Curraugh for contacts then a temple for cultural pressure.
    Workers in the south irrigate the wheat in 2 turns. Central worker mines BG in Stras/Wurtz/Aug triangle to be used by any of those cities. King Henry jumps over the border to meet the Burgundians. Kings go in different directions for other contacts and the sword in Bremen takes off too.

    IT – Burgundians ask us to leave, of course I will. Vikings run into view.

    [1] 846AD – Meet the Danes. Hurry the boat for 76g. Move the sword back into Bremen due to Viking presence. All 3 Kings spot 3 different borders.

    IT – Vikings head SE to do some raping and pillaging elsewhere I presume. Bremen – Curraugh > Temple.

    [2] 849AD - We meet the Magyars, France and Poland. Boat sets sail heading NE for 1 conatact and then will double back. Give Salzburg the irrigated wheat and Regens a forest for granary in 11.

    IT – Not much. See a Viking Lboat. Magyars ask us to leave.

    [3] 852AD – Nothing

    IT – Poland asks us to leave.

    [4] 855AD – Boat visits Norway. Explore more. Looks like France is going to war. They have 4 swords on the move, I look like, to Burgandy.

    IT – No the French were reinforcing towards their NW.

    [5] 858AD – Henry the King heads home. Salzburg hurries Temple for 60g.

    IT – Hildesheim – Worker > Temple. Salzburg – Temple > Brax.

    [6] 861AD – I think Curraugh needs to turn back now.

    IT – Augsburg – Brax > warrior. Danes sending a settler pair out.

    [7] 864AD – No techs known yet!

    IT- Danes may be up to no good. 2 Zerks heading towards Naumburg.

    [8] 867AD – We meet the Bulgars. Send extra warrior over for total of 2 against Zerks. Sword heading down also.’

    IT – Whew, Zerks go other way.

    [9] 870AD – Hurry the granary in Regensburg. Henry in safe in Wurzburg. Wine comes online with Temple expansion next turn.

    IT – Regens – Granary > Settler. Augsburg – Warrior > Warrior in 2. Naumburg – Brax > Warrior. The temples in it’s adjoining towns will grab the BG’s.

    [10] 873AD – Moved workers to new positions for mining.

    Notes: Bremen needs a temple rushed when possible with recent Dane culture expansion. Northern King headed home. King in Bulgar land is heading for the southeast and beyond. No techs are known yet. Settler is meant for planting right on horses and get the wine E of Salzburg. Nothing really new on map except our culture expansion. A lot of builds coming up in next 2-3 turns for a lot of options. After workers get the BG and road complete in Salzburg I might head to road up towards horse town with the BG next to horses.

    >> Burgandy First? <<
     
  14. Rubberjello

    Rubberjello Chieftain

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    Got it. Link to the saved game was bad. Here it is:
    The Save at 873 AD
    Barbslinger - We should probably Zip these saved game files before uploading them. The key to getting the link right is that once you upload them, click on the View upload folder6 link, find your file near the top, right click on the file name, then "copy shortcut, then paste that into your link in your post. :)
     
  15. Rubberjello

    Rubberjello Chieftain

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    Everything looks pretty good. We may need to hurry that settler - we don't want to lose that horse site east of us!

    876 (1) Those 2 Danish 'zerks are marching South right towards are capital! Meet the English - nothing interesting there.

    879 (2) Augsburg (Warrior->Warrior) Strasburg (Temple->Barracks) Rush Temple in Bremen.

    882 (3) Danish 'zerks head East. *Whew* Hopefully they are only barb-hunting deep into Kieviean Rus territory. Bremen (Temple->Worker) Wurzburg (Temple->Settler) Salzburg (Barracks->Warrior)

    885 (4) Augsburg (Warrior->Warrior) Naumburg (Warrior->Warrior)

    888 (5) Regensburg (Settler->Settler) Sending one of our exploring King units towards home. Start hooking up the Iron (At 60 gold per upgrade, we can't afford to upgrade many warriors!)

    891 (6) Augsburg (Warrior-> Granary (Prebuild Sword)) Salzburg (Warrior-> Granary (Prebuild Sword)) Unit costs are killing us!

    894 (7) Get some cultural expansions. Strasbourg Barracks->Granary (Sword prebuild)) Hildesheim (Temple->Worker) Build Hamburg on river/wines/horses --- one step ahead of a Magyar Spear/Settler pair! :eek: Meet the Kievian Rus and the Celts.

    897 (8) The Magyars go away disappointed. :D Salzburg (Warrior ->Granary(prebuild Sword))

    900 (9) Hildesheim (Worker->Barracks)

    903 (10) Regensburg (Settler->Spearman (Sword Prebuild)) Bremen (Worker->Worker) Iron will be connected in 2 turns. All granary builds should be switched to Swords. Money is really tight, we might be only able to upgrade 2 Warriors initially. Proposed city sites for our (soon) 2 Settlers are below. They are not great sites, but will help with the unit cost problem. Norse Tradition due in 20.



    The Game at 903 AD
     
  16. Sir Bugsy

    Sir Bugsy Civ.D.

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    Nice start gents!

    Barbslinger
    Rubberjello - Just Played
    Pokiste - Up!
    Bugs - On Deck
     
  17. Pokiste

    Pokiste Chieftain

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    Got it
     
  18. Rubberjello

    Rubberjello Chieftain

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    In about 5 more turns, we should probably start the palace prebuild for the Holy Roman Empire in Salzburg. That should be about right for a Monarchy level game. If the difficulty were greater than Demigod, we should have started it at around turn 5 (or less!).
     
  19. Pokiste

    Pokiste Chieftain

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    Turn log

    AD 903. (0) France has HBR. And Joan say’s that it is impossible to sell it to us :)

    IT Dane sword east Naumburg one tile from our workers.

    AD 906 (1) Würzburg settler-barracks. Manage workers.
    Conrad finds Turk border. Berthold returns home
    Norway has HBR. No deal.

    IT Dane sword leaves.

    AD 909 (2) Iron connected.
    Conrad meets turks. Curragh meets Castillia. Castilian, Celts and Danes have HBR. No deal possible.

    IT Dane sword near our borders. Berthold meets Dane berserk at Magyar border .

    AD 912 (3)
    Augsburg sword-sword. Salzburg sword-sword. Berthold will avoid berserk.
    Magyars have HRB. No deal possible.

    IT zzzzzz. Burgundy’s settlers in our territory.

    AD 915 (4) Income 10 gpt and 104 g in bank. No interest to sell us HBR.
    Hildeshaim barracks-sword. Strasburg sword-sword.
    Frankfurt established. Starts temple.

    IT zzzzz

    AD 918 (5)
    Heidelberg established. Starts temple.
    Naumburg sword-sword. Bremen worker-granary as prebuild to town hall (60 turns L).
    Regensburg sword-sword.
    We have 8 swords plus some upgrade money. Start reconnaissance at Burgundy borders.
    Curragh finds Cordova. France ready to sell us HRB for 9gpt+98 gold. No deal.

    IT England’s galley in our waters. Kings on way to home meet Magyar and Rus settlers.

    AD 924 (6)
    Salzburg sword-sword

    IT Danes longship passes Bremen.

    AD 927 (7)
    Only Rus and Germany have no idea about HRB. But Germany has 9 swords J. And military advisor said, that compared to burgundy is our military weak...

    IT zzzz

    AD 930 (8)
    Regensburg sword-sword Augsburg sword-sword

    IT AI settlers around us.

    AD 933 (9)
    Strasburg sword-sword. Würtzburg barracks-sword. Hildeshaim sword-sword. Hamburg temple-worker.
    Curragh-cruise passengers visit Magrib and meet Fatimid’s. Son’s of desert don’t know how to ride horse. Military compared to Burgundy is average.
    Build embassy’s to Poland and Burgundy. With Poland for mil. alliance if we need, but I believe, that situation in east is stable. To Burgundy for other proposes ;) Burgundy has no iron connected. Yet.

    IT France settlers in west.

    AD 936 (10)
    Naumburg sword-sword. Started to move swordsman’s toward Burgundy border in two groups. One is near Strasbourg and second is near Metz.

    Notes:
    · There is on size 6 city spot west from Hamburg. Not sure is it good idea to build this city in the eve of war with Burgundy. I left for next player one next turn ready settler in Salzburg. Change it, if you think, that we don’t need this city now. But Magyars may show some interest.
    · Next player should start war with Burgundy as we have ready 14 swords and battle groups are deploying. Good battle plan is to cut Burgundy in Metz and then move with both battle groups against Cologne and Aix-la Chapelle. We must have some covering force for Alps to. I will ad map.
    · Norse trad. in 9 turns.
    · NB!!! Got Rubberjello post about Holly Roman Empire to late and turns were already finished. Next player: change settler to palace prebuild.

    As those are my first ever turns in succession game I am very thankful for any critic.

    Pokiste

    Save
     
  20. Pokiste

    Pokiste Chieftain

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    Postcard from Poznan




    And greetings from la-chapella



    And some warplan drawings.



    Pokiste
     

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