Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Got it. ...
RBC16 - Sleeveless
- Thread starter Sirian
- Start date
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Well... Our situation looks as if we haven't gotten the team onto one page throughout the course of the game. My fault. I have provided no leadership and nearly no suggestions or rationale. However, these are different times and folks should not expect me to say as much as I used to.
The forbidden palace... Where it best belongs is no longer the most important thing. We can't keep putting it off, so I moved it back to Cirta and finished it there on this round.
Whether you think a certain move is the best move or not, if it will cost you more to undo it than you will gain, it has BECOME the best move and you should not change it. Almost any plan is better than anarchy and confusion. I have not provided plans, though, and what little advice I have passed on has largely been ignored.
Looking at the fishing villages in such disrepair... guys, this isn't rocket science. They have two shields tiles, or not. Run max shields to build granary and harbor, then max food to get them to size 6, then max shields again to build temple, aqueduct, and market, then max food until they max out. Some judicious rushing along the way can help, too.
In the "what are they smoking" category:
Pink arrow points to a mine built on a tile no cities can reach.
All this time, and nobody planted a forest at yellow arrow? We might have had our FP in the better location if this had been done.
Mining the tundra when engineering is available? For what, pray tell?
Cirta can only work two mines. Figuring that green circle mine goes to the northern city, we still have three hills that got mined, at the green arrows. This while yellow arrow went neglected, and so did London. Why doesn't London have its tundra tiles forested? ![[pimp]](/images/smilies/pimp.gif "Pimp [pimp]")
Anyway... I bought Magnetism from India, putting us into the Industrial Age.
NO MORE MINIMUM SCIENCE, NO MORE TECH BUYS, until we research at least three techs of our own. Can finish the Music Theory on minimum, but then we need to start our own research.
China landed a minisod in our back lines in 900AD. So... I had them pay us to make peace.
Don't get complacent, though. If they decide to sneak attack, we're still in bad shape over there. London is finished with available buildings, so it can churn us some crap-sorry military units for a while. When the foresting is done, should be able to get to 20 spt.
I REPEAT, NO MORE TECH BUYS, NO MORE MIN SCIENCE, until we've researched three of our own techs. And let's research real techs, too, not crappy optionals from the middle ages to "meet the obligation" and then back to more tech whoring.
We have one city with too much irrigation and another city with too little. Please rectify. Thanks.
Sleeveless - 950AD
- Sirian
The forbidden palace... Where it best belongs is no longer the most important thing. We can't keep putting it off, so I moved it back to Cirta and finished it there on this round.
Whether you think a certain move is the best move or not, if it will cost you more to undo it than you will gain, it has BECOME the best move and you should not change it. Almost any plan is better than anarchy and confusion. I have not provided plans, though, and what little advice I have passed on has largely been ignored.
Looking at the fishing villages in such disrepair... guys, this isn't rocket science. They have two shields tiles, or not. Run max shields to build granary and harbor, then max food to get them to size 6, then max shields again to build temple, aqueduct, and market, then max food until they max out. Some judicious rushing along the way can help, too.
In the "what are they smoking" category:
Pink arrow points to a mine built on a tile no cities can reach. All this time, and nobody planted a forest at yellow arrow? We might have had our FP in the better location if this had been done. Mining the tundra when engineering is available? For what, pray tell? Cirta can only work two mines. Figuring that green circle mine goes to the northern city, we still have three hills that got mined, at the green arrows. This while yellow arrow went neglected, and so did London. Why doesn't London have its tundra tiles forested? Anyway... I bought Magnetism from India, putting us into the Industrial Age.
NO MORE MINIMUM SCIENCE, NO MORE TECH BUYS, until we research at least three techs of our own. Can finish the Music Theory on minimum, but then we need to start our own research.
China landed a minisod in our back lines in 900AD. So... I had them pay us to make peace.
Don't get complacent, though. If they decide to sneak attack, we're still in bad shape over there. London is finished with available buildings, so it can churn us some crap-sorry military units for a while. When the foresting is done, should be able to get to 20 spt.
I REPEAT, NO MORE TECH BUYS, NO MORE MIN SCIENCE, until we've researched three of our own techs. And let's research real techs, too, not crappy optionals from the middle ages to "meet the obligation" and then back to more tech whoring.
We have one city with too much irrigation and another city with too little. Please rectify. Thanks.
Sleeveless - 950AD
- Sirian
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
So does that mean this game isn't going to play like one of Arathorn's loony ruler games anymore?
lurker's comment:
One thing I like to do with tundra is plant trees on every square.
Then after I have steam I cut them all down and replace them with mines as I do. (unless I am sure that they were previously cut down).
These are usually low priorty worker tasks, but one often has bored workers.
The advantage to doing the above is that it guarantees you will get the +10 shields for all tundra squares.
Since forest are always as good as or better than mines, you don't lose any shields doing this. The only time not to do this is if giving the enemy units a forest defense bonus is not a good idea.
The real benefit is that fishing villages can really use the shields.
One thing I like to do with tundra is plant trees on every square.
Then after I have steam I cut them all down and replace them with mines as I do. (unless I am sure that they were previously cut down).
These are usually low priorty worker tasks, but one often has bored workers.
The advantage to doing the above is that it guarantees you will get the +10 shields for all tundra squares.
Since forest are always as good as or better than mines, you don't lose any shields doing this. The only time not to do this is if giving the enemy units a forest defense bonus is not a good idea.
The real benefit is that fishing villages can really use the shields.
Dizzy Lizzy enters the new millenium.
We are low in researching, and extremely low in defense. We are starting to get Trebuchets, but
we lack any troops with firearms.
We have four chinese crusaders next to a fishing village defended by an archer.
I will see if I can scrape together the resources to build a couple of pikes out of London later
so I can rotate the old guards somewhere.
Economy needs to be improved first, so we can fire up our research.
Hmm, I am surprised I can MM London for an extra buck. Then I can shave two turns off the
university in Nottingham by losing that particular buck.
In canterbury I can sac growth for an extra buck, but do not. Working forest wont shave turns off
of the Bank, so I deem a food to be worth more than one coin.
We will have a sem decent income once our deals run out. We have 40 gpt now, another 50 in four
turns, and another 60 in fourteen turns.
Carthage is a monster with 8000 gold surplus in his treasury. It will be tough to defeat him
peacefully, so we better get started.
IBT: Aztecs and Korea sign peace. London finish Treb, and starts a pike. I aim to alternate these
builds. We need both stacks of artillery and a few pikemen.
960AD Clumb workers together in foresting/roading parties. ALl our cities have developed tiles,
so I will make little forests for us to chop down, and roads for us to work.
IBT: Aztecs at war with most of the known world wants us as their mpp buddies. No thanks.
Cadiz finish Harbor. Put it on max food and Temple build.
Chinan completes granary, start Harbor. Sulcis completes harbor, and I start Temple on max food.
Byzantines start Universal suffrage. Ouch. A new experience being this behind this late in the
game.
970AD Buy a worker out of France for 115 gold. With Steam coming up, I feel we are a bit short of
workers.... We have four.....
Get wines and 40 gold from India for our spices.
IBT: KOrea and Carthage signs MPP
London completes a pikeman, and I shave a worker out of it, and make a note of MM for a food
surplus for a turn.
980AD Move our four workers, check trades.
IBT: London worker->Trebuchet, Coventry Aqueduct->Library. ( I chose the library before Market,
because I intend to research after we get Music Theory, and Coventry would be happy at size 7
without Market, so I plan on LIbrary first, Market afterwards.
Korea join the dogpile on thye Aztecs, and it is a bit tempting to build a settler and dingy to
go looking for land to poach. As far as I can see though, the Aztecs are holding their own.
990AD: I am not happy with our number of workers. Hopefully we can shave workers out of our
cities soon, as we will need to redo our core cities to get better magic numbers of shields.
IBT: Nada
1000AD Millenium is upon us, and contrary to popular belief, the world doesn't end.
Carthage is up to 10000 in gold.
IBT: We gain Music Theory, and I start on STeam for now. After checking diplomacy, I might switch
to Medicine.
London Treb->Pike,
1010AD My weed. I should have noticed earlier that I was not getting my money back on a combined
luxand tech deal, and I lost us 80 coins. I renegotiate, and I get ivory and two slaves for
spices and 84 gold.
Hmm, 40 % science will get us Steam in 20 turns or Medicine in 29. I doubt Medicine will stay a
lost science for another 29 turns, so I start the Steam. I can sustain 40% science for eight
turns, but another deal will end in 7, so money should be available unless we get extorted, so I
better be careful if running close to the line.
With only 40% science, I switch the library in Coventry to the more conventional Marketplace.
IBT: Chinan completes harbor, and goes full food on Market. I do nto start Temple, as nearby
cities have expanded borders, so I wont need the expanded borders until it is size 8. Feel free
to veto this though, as it is starting to get late, and my logic may be fuzzy around the edges.
1020 Korea now knows Education. Congrats to them. Tempted to gift them Banking to let them have
some money for us to sell our old techs.
Coventry is now at size 7, and goes on max shields diet, losing two coins, and gaining three
shields. Aztecs are crumbling from the Carthage war machine, but there are no razings.
IBT: London Pike->Treb, Hasting Aqueduct->Market, Canterbury Bank->Treb
1030 London may now reach 20 spt, but the stuff I build costs 30, so I keep London on a small
food surplus, and maximize gold on a 15 spt diet.
Nottingham is at size 12, and it is time to reconstruct the farmlands around it.
IBT: Cirta Barracks->Pikeman,
1040 Maximize to no effect around NOttingham. Hopefully it will get us more later when the
shields might be used for something.
IBT: France signs peace with Aztecs. London Treb->Pike, Warwick Market-> Library,
1050 I missed my chance at putting Canterbury optimal, and I switch the 28 shield Trebuchet into
a 40 shield longbow. After Longbow finish, please make 15 spt and trebs/pikemen if you feel our
economy can afford even more paper cutouts.
You might want to rush the last few shields in Saldeas temple, and statr the harbor there. It
needs harbor to grow to size 2 without starvation.
You might want to crank up research a notch as our payments to India will be returned to us soon.
When researching, it is always best to go at max speed, even if it means you lose money.
Grimjack
We are low in researching, and extremely low in defense. We are starting to get Trebuchets, but
we lack any troops with firearms.
We have four chinese crusaders next to a fishing village defended by an archer.
I will see if I can scrape together the resources to build a couple of pikes out of London later
so I can rotate the old guards somewhere.
Economy needs to be improved first, so we can fire up our research.
Hmm, I am surprised I can MM London for an extra buck. Then I can shave two turns off the
university in Nottingham by losing that particular buck.
In canterbury I can sac growth for an extra buck, but do not. Working forest wont shave turns off
of the Bank, so I deem a food to be worth more than one coin.
We will have a sem decent income once our deals run out. We have 40 gpt now, another 50 in four
turns, and another 60 in fourteen turns.
Carthage is a monster with 8000 gold surplus in his treasury. It will be tough to defeat him
peacefully, so we better get started.
IBT: Aztecs and Korea sign peace. London finish Treb, and starts a pike. I aim to alternate these
builds. We need both stacks of artillery and a few pikemen.
960AD Clumb workers together in foresting/roading parties. ALl our cities have developed tiles,
so I will make little forests for us to chop down, and roads for us to work.
IBT: Aztecs at war with most of the known world wants us as their mpp buddies. No thanks.
Cadiz finish Harbor. Put it on max food and Temple build.
Chinan completes granary, start Harbor. Sulcis completes harbor, and I start Temple on max food.
Byzantines start Universal suffrage. Ouch. A new experience being this behind this late in the
game.
970AD Buy a worker out of France for 115 gold. With Steam coming up, I feel we are a bit short of
workers.... We have four.....
Get wines and 40 gold from India for our spices.
IBT: KOrea and Carthage signs MPP
London completes a pikeman, and I shave a worker out of it, and make a note of MM for a food
surplus for a turn.
980AD Move our four workers, check trades.
IBT: London worker->Trebuchet, Coventry Aqueduct->Library. ( I chose the library before Market,
because I intend to research after we get Music Theory, and Coventry would be happy at size 7
without Market, so I plan on LIbrary first, Market afterwards.
Korea join the dogpile on thye Aztecs, and it is a bit tempting to build a settler and dingy to
go looking for land to poach. As far as I can see though, the Aztecs are holding their own.
990AD: I am not happy with our number of workers. Hopefully we can shave workers out of our
cities soon, as we will need to redo our core cities to get better magic numbers of shields.
IBT: Nada
1000AD Millenium is upon us, and contrary to popular belief, the world doesn't end.
Carthage is up to 10000 in gold.
IBT: We gain Music Theory, and I start on STeam for now. After checking diplomacy, I might switch
to Medicine.
London Treb->Pike,
1010AD My weed. I should have noticed earlier that I was not getting my money back on a combined
luxand tech deal, and I lost us 80 coins. I renegotiate, and I get ivory and two slaves for
spices and 84 gold.
Hmm, 40 % science will get us Steam in 20 turns or Medicine in 29. I doubt Medicine will stay a
lost science for another 29 turns, so I start the Steam. I can sustain 40% science for eight
turns, but another deal will end in 7, so money should be available unless we get extorted, so I
better be careful if running close to the line.
With only 40% science, I switch the library in Coventry to the more conventional Marketplace.
IBT: Chinan completes harbor, and goes full food on Market. I do nto start Temple, as nearby
cities have expanded borders, so I wont need the expanded borders until it is size 8. Feel free
to veto this though, as it is starting to get late, and my logic may be fuzzy around the edges.
1020 Korea now knows Education. Congrats to them. Tempted to gift them Banking to let them have
some money for us to sell our old techs.
Coventry is now at size 7, and goes on max shields diet, losing two coins, and gaining three
shields. Aztecs are crumbling from the Carthage war machine, but there are no razings.
IBT: London Pike->Treb, Hasting Aqueduct->Market, Canterbury Bank->Treb
1030 London may now reach 20 spt, but the stuff I build costs 30, so I keep London on a small
food surplus, and maximize gold on a 15 spt diet.
Nottingham is at size 12, and it is time to reconstruct the farmlands around it.
IBT: Cirta Barracks->Pikeman,
1040 Maximize to no effect around NOttingham. Hopefully it will get us more later when the
shields might be used for something.
IBT: France signs peace with Aztecs. London Treb->Pike, Warwick Market-> Library,
1050 I missed my chance at putting Canterbury optimal, and I switch the 28 shield Trebuchet into
a 40 shield longbow. After Longbow finish, please make 15 spt and trebs/pikemen if you feel our
economy can afford even more paper cutouts.
You might want to rush the last few shields in Saldeas temple, and statr the harbor there. It
needs harbor to grow to size 2 without starvation.
You might want to crank up research a notch as our payments to India will be returned to us soon.
When researching, it is always best to go at max speed, even if it means you lose money.
Grimjack
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Researching at deficit with no treasury would be something up our sleeve. Deficit research we can pay for with stored funds is OK, though.
20 turn research on Steam? And with some funds still being paid out? Cool. We're still in the game.
Go team, go.
- Sirian
PS: Throwback days are underway at RBCiv. The next Epic will be Always War, played on vanilla C3 for that top notch vintage experience.
20 turn research on Steam? And with some funds still being paid out? Cool. We're still in the game.
Go team, go.
- Sirian
PS: Throwback days are underway at RBCiv. The next Epic will be Always War, played on vanilla C3 for that top notch vintage experience.
Ouch, missed the newlines in notepad. Sorry about the lousy formatting of the above.
As to deficit research, we have money to pay for it, I was just warning for the AIs love of throwing in a demand when you have a treasury of 30 and doing -25 gpt research.
In a normal game, losing a granary and worker does not matter very much. In this game it would hurt. We are critically short workers, but I expect it wont matter, because we are likely as not critically short of coal. If we are lucky, we can get coal from Korea for Music Theory after gifting them to Steam....
Still no one knows Medicine, so I may have made the wrong choice in techs. I think I made an educated guess at the time though.
Grimjack
As to deficit research, we have money to pay for it, I was just warning for the AIs love of throwing in a demand when you have a treasury of 30 and doing -25 gpt research.
In a normal game, losing a granary and worker does not matter very much. In this game it would hurt. We are critically short workers, but I expect it wont matter, because we are likely as not critically short of coal. If we are lucky, we can get coal from Korea for Music Theory after gifting them to Steam....
Still no one knows Medicine, so I may have made the wrong choice in techs. I think I made an educated guess at the time though.
Grimjack
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
I have the save. I'll play this before delving into the AW Epic.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Shameless Plug Section The latest epic over on RBCiv is an AW game, Emperor, large map, played on vanilla 1.29. It is sponsored by our very own Sirian.
Pre-flight Shift some military over towards the Chinese, just in case Mao gets a hare-brained idea.
Where is Hannibal getting all this money? 10873G Could there be a bug in this game?
Monty is taking it in the shorts. It looks like two of his cities are now speaking a Byzantine version of Latin, and one is learning to be Carthaginian.
Early: London builds two pikes. Canterbury two LBs, Nottingham gets a university, and Rusaddir, a temple.
Hannibal averages 320GPT. After some consideration, I think Grimjacks idea about selling Korea banking on the cheap makes a lot of sense. I get a whopping 12G out of them. Beef up the defenses of Oxford and Sulcis (the two cities on either side of the Chinese) A deal ends in 1080, so I up science by 20%, Steam due in 7. We run a -7 gpt budget.
Middle: Switch London and Canterbury over to building trebs. Our spice & 2gpt for dyes deal with Monty expires. He is not interested in making any reasonable deal, so I let it expire. The banking give away, bears a little fruit. Korea can pay GPT for a tech. While were probably not getting full price, 8gpt will help finance our research a bit. Sell Chemistry for 19g & 8gpt. France declares on India
Late: Now Hannibal only makes 234GPT. Steam=>medicine I know everyone will be shocked by this, but we do not have any coal. France has three sources, China and India one each. We can get coal from Joan for most of our economy (WM, 113G & 10gpt)
Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/RBC16_1150AD.zip
Pre-flight Shift some military over towards the Chinese, just in case Mao gets a hare-brained idea.
Where is Hannibal getting all this money? 10873G Could there be a bug in this game?
Monty is taking it in the shorts. It looks like two of his cities are now speaking a Byzantine version of Latin, and one is learning to be Carthaginian.
Early: London builds two pikes. Canterbury two LBs, Nottingham gets a university, and Rusaddir, a temple.
Hannibal averages 320GPT. After some consideration, I think Grimjacks idea about selling Korea banking on the cheap makes a lot of sense. I get a whopping 12G out of them. Beef up the defenses of Oxford and Sulcis (the two cities on either side of the Chinese) A deal ends in 1080, so I up science by 20%, Steam due in 7. We run a -7 gpt budget.
Middle: Switch London and Canterbury over to building trebs. Our spice & 2gpt for dyes deal with Monty expires. He is not interested in making any reasonable deal, so I let it expire. The banking give away, bears a little fruit. Korea can pay GPT for a tech. While were probably not getting full price, 8gpt will help finance our research a bit. Sell Chemistry for 19g & 8gpt. France declares on India
Late: Now Hannibal only makes 234GPT.
Steam=>medicine I know everyone will be shocked by this, but we do not have any coal. France has three sources, China and India one each. We can get coal from Joan for most of our economy (WM, 113G & 10gpt)Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/RBC16_1150AD.zip
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Gifting a pack of techs to a trailing civ in hopes of taking advantage of the free tech they'll get in the new era... That's definitely gamey. It's a common move, one I've done many times, one that most players would hardly think twice about. But it's a bit too artificial for the spirit of this event, so let's not do it. I didn't write a rule against it, but I hope everyone can see my point.
- Sirian
Oh One More Thing (TM)...
I'd say let's go ahead and get the coal from France, get a military rail net and rail up our nonfrozen lands. If we need a few more workers first, then OK. Gifting Banking to Korea in hopes they build some banks is not out of bounds. That move actually makes in-game contextual sense, whereas "give a backward civ eight techs they don't have so they'll magically find one we don't know" just isn't in the same vein.
- Sirian
- Sirian
Oh One More Thing (TM)...
I'd say let's go ahead and get the coal from France, get a military rail net and rail up our nonfrozen lands. If we need a few more workers first, then OK. Gifting Banking to Korea in hopes they build some banks is not out of bounds. That move actually makes in-game contextual sense, whereas "give a backward civ eight techs they don't have so they'll magically find one we don't know" just isn't in the same vein.
- Sirian
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
I like the idea of buying or building some more workers first. We will want to get the most out of our 20 turns of coal.
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
You know, when I first started playing SG's, we barely finished my first game. The dropouts we had really left a bad taste in my mouth. As such, I have made it pretty clear that I abhor skips/dropouts, and pride myself on never being skipped (other than vacations) in my time on these boards (although I have certainly delayed a time or three). Curious how sometimes one must become that which he loathes, huh?
When I came home from work tonight, I was informed that the relationship I have been in for the past four years was crumbling. Unfortunately, the time I spend on Civ/SG's is one of the reasons.
As such, my time for civ will be severely limited in the coming weeks while I tend to more important things. While it is possible I could perhaps keep my obligation in one or two games, it doesn't feel right to pick and choose which one(s).
Therefore, it is with great remorse and my most sincere apologies that I must request to be put on auto skip in all games, effective immediately. Hopefully I will still be able to lurk a bit, and maybe even contribute here and there (especially from work).
If things get smoothed out quickly, then I will request to be added back in to rosters, at the hosts' discretion. I am not terribly optimistic though.
Once again, apologies to all.
When I came home from work tonight, I was informed that the relationship I have been in for the past four years was crumbling. Unfortunately, the time I spend on Civ/SG's is one of the reasons.
As such, my time for civ will be severely limited in the coming weeks while I tend to more important things. While it is possible I could perhaps keep my obligation in one or two games, it doesn't feel right to pick and choose which one(s).
Therefore, it is with great remorse and my most sincere apologies that I must request to be put on auto skip in all games, effective immediately. Hopefully I will still be able to lurk a bit, and maybe even contribute here and there (especially from work).
If things get smoothed out quickly, then I will request to be added back in to rosters, at the hosts' discretion. I am not terribly optimistic though.
Once again, apologies to all.
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
- Messages
- 4,596
Once again, good luck, and I can see that you were in too many games indeed (you were in what, 10 games? 
). Better keep it down for your own good. I was once in like 7-8 games and now I limit myself to 4-5, or even fewer.
Hope your problem will be solved and expect to see you back with a saner participation in CIV.
). Better keep it down for your own good. I was once in like 7-8 games and now I limit myself to 4-5, or even fewer.Hope your problem will be solved and expect to see you back with a saner participation in CIV.
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
Unfortunately, that is all too accurate. I was also trying to limit myself to four or five, but I made about four separate committments that all came up at once.
I probably should have begged off a couple, I hate breaking a committment.And then there was a game or two (like this one with Sirian, practically a legend) that I simply couldn't help myself on.
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Legend bah. I can barely manage to play in one games at a time.
Sorry to hear about your troubles. Get yourself back into balance and don't feast so much. It's only a game.
- Sirian
Sorry to hear about your troubles. Get yourself back into balance and don't feast so much. It's only a game.
- Sirian
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
A wise man knows his limitations.
I obviously do not fit into that category.
Sesn you are in very good company. ControlFreak comes to mind.
I obviously do not fit into that category.
Sesn you are in very good company. ControlFreak comes to mind.
Sorry for not being able to give advice Sesn. I obviously does not understand
anything going on in the significant others mind.
It is ok for her to spend four hours every evening watching reality soaps, but it is
not ok for me spending two hours doing computer games. :shrug:
That aside, the main reason I was for gifting Korea, would be if they had coal on their continent. Then foreign aid would make more sense, as it would be us carting away their mineral riches.
( Not at all like westerners giving tech to arabians so they can cart away their oil. nope, not at all.... )
anything going on in the significant others mind.
It is ok for her to spend four hours every evening watching reality soaps, but it is
not ok for me spending two hours doing computer games. :shrug:
That aside, the main reason I was for gifting Korea, would be if they had coal on their continent. Then foreign aid would make more sense, as it would be us carting away their mineral riches.
( Not at all like westerners giving tech to arabians so they can cart away their oil. nope, not at all.... )
Similar threads
