RBD 4: Introduction to Emperor

[Zed-F]

1500 AD (0): Applied patch. Didn't notice any of our cities affected by happiness issues. Changed a couple cities production off Ironclads to city improvements. Some places building aqueducts don't even have temples yet!

1505 AD (1): Some factories completed, we skim some workers before starting coal plants. How we got this far on just 9 workers I don't know. Another Ironclad completed, we start a settler. We top up our research tank on Sanitation from France for 40 gold & world map; Babylon now has Communism & Sanitation. We start research on Electricity; I fully expect to get beat to it. Antioch switches from temple to Barracks -- it has lots of our culture already and we need it more for a military base than any production it might generate.

1510 AD (2): The Babylonians are marching all kinds of Cavalry through our territory to get to India, including an army. We build 3 workers & start coal plants.

1515-1525 AD: Not much happens. Babs are moving through our territory. We found Fort Zed where Akkad used to be to act as buffer zone.

1530 AD (6): The Babs are starting to move back home, but I'm not sure why, as most of their troops haven't even gotten to India yet. We complete some coal plants. Delphi is working on a Hospital, and we skim another couple workers. Madras completes a Factory. France has Electricity. Perhaps we should start prebuilding for Theory of Evolution soon...

1540 AD (8): We got a couple more workers and factories done... Arbela starts pre-building ToE with a Palace, and Bombay is building Riflemen in preparation for the inevitable war with the Babs when our peace treaty expires. We need some more military buildup now that the latest round of infrastructure-building is about complete. Delphi is building a hospital but it's the only one since it's the only one that can get a substantial amount of increased production out of it; besides which we need our workers building rails, not cleaning up pollution.

1545 AD (9): We finish researching Electricity a turn early courtesy of India discovering it on the same turn. We start Scientific Method. We are behind in tech but not by a huge amount; hopefully we can parlay ToE into getting Atomic Theory and Replaceable Parts, but that requires us getting Communism and Espionage, the latter of which hasn't been researched by anyone yet. Delphi finishes hospital and starts Rifleman. We start hurrying defensive structures (walls, Barracks) on our Babylonian frontier.

1550 AD (10): We still have lots of Bab Cavalry on our lands and are badly in need of defense. India is not doing well in its war with Babylon, although so far they haven't lost any cities, so I fully expect the Babs will declare war on us as soon as the treaty expires (in only 2 turns). However, we now have several factories online and a couple more due next turn, as well as some cities with coal plants. So, with Mobilization, we should be able to pump out a lot of units in a hurry once war starts; however, we should make sure not to mobilize until we get ToE started (after that point mobilization will help get ToE done faster.) The other thing we want to make sure of is that we don't Mobilize for too long, as at some point we will want to start prebuilding for Hoover.

 

[Sirian]

It's been 24 hours since Carbon's appeal to One, with no reply. He declared this game over, said he had lost the will to apply himself to the war on his last turn because he thought it was hopeless, and has pretty much vanished since then. We've gone out of our way to accomodate him on time, and he's not responding. I would like to see him either confirm that he's still interested, or do us the courtesy of a formal departure. This uncertainty is dragging things out.

One: nobody here's upset about that turn. But now you seem to be blowing us off. What's going on? Where do you stand?


In the mean time, I've got it. Wish me luck.

- Sirian

 

[Carbon_Copy]

It's MY turn in this game. I can't play it till tomorrow evening (which would have made it too late for Infantry, which I why I passed after goofing), but still well within the window for THIS game. And I'll even play the right turn, too, I promise.

 

[Sirian]

Hmm. You're right. I've been following Zed all along, but forgot that he's a free agent now in the turn order. I just made a habit of picking it up once he had posted.

I played a turn. Do you want me to sit on it (erase it) or post it?

- Sirian

 

[Carbon_Copy]

If you've already played it, might as well post it. Then I'll pass off to Jaffa, then back to One if he's still up for the game (I hope he is), then back to normal order unless/until Zed interjects.

 

[Sirian]

OK.

Inherited Turn: Zed's right, the Babs are all over our land, fighting with India still. We're not in great shape here. Not BAD, but not ready to fight, nor to mobilize. I could mobilize right now, as that ridiculous phony war the Aztecs dropped on us is still going, but I don't see us as ready. Still too many factories building, still too many coal plants unbuilt. I decide to sweat it out, keep our heads low, and go with Scientific Method. (I can't remember if we've invested any turns in that already or not -- normally I would just go for Rep Parts first, but normally I would also have some kind of tech lead by this point).

The city on placeholder... I take it off and start building rifles. It can make them every other turn. The rest of our cities are doing infrastructure. I swap Delphi over to Wall Street. Everything else is building factory, coal plant, or hospital. Small fry cities are put on basic infrastructure if not already there.

1555-1570AD: The Indians have RoP with us, Babs do not. So India is continuously running 4/5ths of their troops across our rails, past the Bab troops, and into position to attack Xochicalco. Babs then turn around and go back to attack these couple of horses each turn, and even though Babs only lose 1 for each 3 killed, you might say this tactic is "working" for the Indians, as it is keeping them alive longer. If all those troops got to India, cities would fall. Babs have a cavalry army, which wastes itself attacking Delhi (guess it failed its retreat roll). This is the ONLY attack the Babs actually make on Indian soil during my turn.

Joanie has researched Scientific Method, dropping the cost for us and now it's due sooner. Rather than let Wall Street complete, I swap Delphi to Suffrage. Only need to hold out one turn on that, then I can swap it to Theory of Evolution and snag that on my turn.

1575AD: Joanie's ships enter our waters. Uh oh, she's spotted one of our cities with just a spearman in it and is about to launch sneak attack. I check our agreements, find that we have RoP going for about 8 more turns. Bleh. If I declare war or attack, our rep goes into the drink. I may have to if she lands cavs. India sends its usual one or two cavs to Xochi, gets em killed. Dunno if Babs lost any this turn or not -- they weren't losing many.

ToE will be ours.

1580AD: We research Sci Meth. I start on Rep Parts and trade for Communism with Babs. (I gave up Sci Meth and some cash).

One French longbow lands near Ockley. I redistribute defenders, as this unit will have RoP until the moment it attacks, so it can reach any city it likes on our rail net. Fooey. Joanie ought to be SEVERELY penalized for this RoP betrayal, the same as the Human player ought to. How can Firaxis expect players not to rape the diplomatic system when the AI's already do it?

1585AD: Babs and India make peace. This is not good, the Babs start retreating from our land. If we are going to ambush their horsies, it would have to be done soon!

Joanie picks a city with a pike and immortal in it to attack. If that had been 2 cav instead of 1 bow, I would have HAD to attack them, as they could have taken our weakest city this way. Lucky for us, I could wait, and now Joanie's record is the one with the black eye. Our pike defeats her bow.

1590AD: Theory of Evolution completed! We receive... Replaceable Parts!?! Um... that's the one I was researching. Well, it will give us Espionage as the other tech, so I start us on Atomic Theory next. We receive Atomic Theory as our second tech! OK, they have definitely changed this. ToE now works like Darwin's Voyage from Civ2: it gives you whatever you are working on now, whatever you select. So... heh, I could have gotten us both Atomic Theory and Electronics! But I didn't know! Well, maybe this is better anyway. I blow ALL of our cash (we have 3 left) upgrading our rifles to infantry and our cata's to artillery.

With just 3 left in our Treasury, but Wall Street under construction at Bombay, I opt to run zero science for a few turns, try to get us back up to 1000 gold, as in Monarchy, that 50 per turn from interest is a BIG deal -- much bigger than it is for Democracy.

1595AD: A couple Bab cavalry make it back to their lands. The bulk of their force is still near Flora, though. 14 cav. We produced three new artillery on this turn, to go with the three we just upgraded from catapult.

We now have factories and coal plants complete in our best producers, and factories or coal plants being built in all our other main cities. I decide it's time to bite the bullet. We're at war with France already. I call up Hammi and demand he remove his troops from our land or declare war. (He was leaving anyway, but I was SURE he would be too arrogant to leave quietly). Babs declare war on us.

With six artillery to soften them up, I attack the Babylonian horsies... with Infantry! I also used our couple of knights, and some immortals. All but three cavs stacked on a hill are slain! We lose about three units in the attack, only one of them a vet infantry.

1600AD: Bab counterattack is pretty feeble. They kill two immortals and one wounded regular infantry, so that's 6 units total we lost in this move. The three remaining Bab cav, plus SIX more they moved onto our land, are slaughtered. We lose no units! France is harassing our shores now with frigates and ironclads, on our east. Our three ironclads arrive and start sinking French ships.

I sit and ponder whether or not I should stop here. The war is just getting started and our position remains tenuous. (I didn't know at this time that I had jumped ahead in the turn order, or I definitely would have stopped.) I decide to accept Carbon's "up to 15 turns if you are involved with something" and play at least two more turns.

1605AD: We now have one city cranking a knight each turn! Most of this turn spent fending off the French. Two of our ironclads are lost, but four French ships are sunk.

1610AD: Lots of Babylonian cavs invade us. France also lands two cavs. I have to split our artillery to deal with them, so there was none to fend off the French ships this turn. Our last Ironclad on that side of the map sinks a French frigate on its own. Our treasury is still not up to 1000 and I feel obligated to get it back there, as our economy could go into the drink now without that income, as we are adding a bunch of new units every turn. I decide to play out the full fifteen rounds.

1615AD: Babylonian cavs are dealt another crushing blow, and they are slowing down. Our railroads are nearly done now, and we have one city cranking an infantry every turn! We have three cities now building a knight every turn, and the rest are cranking more artillery. I'm also trying to build some more ironclads, but that is not going as well.

1620AD: Babs have Infantry of their own now. That's going to make things harder for us, but I believe it vindicates my decision to move to war when I did, as I ambushed over a dozen cavs and nabbed another dozen since then. The initiative has gone over to us now, as artillery is the great equalizer. Even knights and foot troops can fight off cavalry if backed by artillery. Our treasury FINALLY returns to 1000 gold and I increase science up to what we can sustain. Electronics due in 14 turns. We can't build the palace placeholder, either. I'm sure there are several good options for trying to secure Hoover Dam, though. Carbon will come up with something clever.

1625AD: Our production is cranking out a lot of troops now, and careful planning and prudent deployment should outwit the feeble AI's. We have a two front war, but the one in the east is mostly just annoyance, for the moment. Nobody has yet plopped down more than a pair of troops on any one turn.

The Saltpeter just beyond Fort Sirian would move us up from knights to cavalry, and allow us to build coastal forts, if we could secure it. I imagine a stack of combined arms -- infantry, knights, and artillery -- could march on any Bab city we please, if we go in force. I've secured our own lands. Though we are at war with both major powers, that's GOOD for us now. We want them to build up war weariness with us and collapse their governments.

The next player should be able to go on the offensive, if he wishes. That ought to be the most fun part, even though we don't have any blitz capability. Good luck.


- Sirian

 

[Zed-F]

Don't think we can collapse the Babs, they were already in Monarchy last I checked... the French are another matter, they were in Democracy. However, they may have Suffrage by now

 

[Sirian]

The last time you checked, the Babs were still at war with India. They were back in Republic one turn after making peace with India (being Religious, one turn rollover) and they will pull ahead if allowed to stay there. My attack has pushed them back into weariness, for sure, but not yet enough to collapse them. France is in Democracy. We've reached a point where our production is now strong and we have enough tech/production/units to go on the offensive. We cannot afford to go through 4-8 turns of anarchy to swap back to Democracy, only to have these aggressive attacks by France and Babylon collapse us again right away, and even if we did, we would lack the means to conduct blitz warfare. Lots of artillery use, lots of casualties, lots of foot soldiers and unable to blitz through weaker/low-tech enemies, is the kind of conflict that builds weariness quickly.

Call it the luck of our position draw in this one, but war has been forced upon us. Maybe if India hadn't been right on top of us, and stolen half of the land close to our capital in the early game (the AI cheat where they target where resources are going to show up before they can even see them) we might have had more options. But we had a big chunk of water on one side, mountains/tundra on another, India crowding us big time on the third front, and Babylon crowding us too much on the fourth front to allow us to get enough secure land in that direction in which to build a forbidden palace. The higher corruption of having so little control over the land right around our capital spread us out and really hurt our production curve. We've had to build more military because our "fronts" have been so large, relative to our whole civ size. Lack of saltpeter has kept us weaker than we should have been, as our enemies stack up lots of cavalry. Some great moves have kept us going, including Jaffa's iron city which ultimately led Madras to flip to us, and One's placeholder that turned out to give us Sistine Chapel, which has been huge for us since it came in. This has been a pretty tough game and there's a lot of hardship left to go, I believe.


- Sirian

 

[Zed-F]

Heh, no problem with war, we agreed on the necessity of that a long time ago. There's no question we're stuck in Monarchy now for a good long time, so dragging the others back into war is our best option.

Will we force the collapse the French government? I hope so, and it seems possible if they keep attacking us -- they won't want to leave Democracy willingly given they have to wait the full anarchy cycle. If we can't they will have a big tech lead on us soon, so we don't want to accept any peace treaties they might offer. As for the Babs, well they have that religious bonus going so it hardly matters whether we force it or whether they make the change voluntarily. Going back to Republic will not wind up costing them a ton more (2 turns of production & trade, civ-wide, once they go back to Monarchy) than they got from switching to it for a few turns; wish *we* could get away with that sort of maneuver...

If the Babs have Infantry now, I guess we need to stock up on Artillery to beat them down if we go on the offensive. Well, if we're going on the offensive, we need more of everything. Can't wait for Tanks, but got a ways to go for that. One step at a time, Hoover first...

 

[Carbon_Copy]

Conquest in slooooooow motion. It took me a few turns to get used to fighting units with artillery, infantry, and knights. Good thing we're in Monarchy or my 10 turns would have BURIED us in war weariness between all the bombardment and unit losses among our knight ranks. Turn-by-turn:

Pre-turn: Can't find anything that I would change.

I DO notice, however, that if Persepolis had been one square to the southwest, we could have built the Iron Works :aargh3:

1630: Babs and French land cavalry by Gordium. I pull artillery from the west to shell them down to 1 hp, then finish them off with knights. This is the last time that landing forces land their units on my round. Our open ocean units don't fare so well, an ironclad between France and Babylon gets sunk, and I mistake one of our galleons for a frigate and I get it sunk on a REAL frigate.

1635: Ft. Sirian gets a heavy shelling from our artillery stacks. It's down to size 1 (in 1.17 bombard defenses for buildings and units inside cities seems to have gone WAY up, but it's still just as easy, if not easier, to shell away the native population. Kind of like pre-starving a city you're going to capture ). Ft. Sirian will be retaken next turn barring major reinforcements. Delphi's tiles are rearranged so it can build one infantry per turn.

1640: The reinforcements at Ft. Sirian happened, and our knights weren't as lucky versus injured infantry. A mountain gets polluted, those take a LOT of workers to clean up. Pasargadae starts Universal Suffrage. I slow down the shield production so we should be able to build it just after we discover Electronics (assuming we can de-mobilize our economy by then).

1645: Ft. Sirian recaptured . What is our next target going to be, Xochilalco, Nippur (on our way to Shurrupak and gems), or Ur and Saltpeter? Why not all three?

1650: zzzz, only fighting is between naval units and one conscript bab rifle that wandered into open plains and was shelled down and dismembered by a knight. Seeing conscripts is a good thing.

1655: zzzz, moving troops into fighting range of cities

1660: Xochilalco autorazed, the huge stack of artillery I had bombarding it gets moved to the Ur theater. Joan pesters me for a straight peace talk. Still holding out hope to topple her Democracy, I decline. A break from war to de-mobilize and build Hoover would be nice in the near future, though.

1665: Bombarding Ur begins, lots of pop lost plus its temple lost(isn't Ur the second city the Babs build? That's a lot of culture per turn that they'll be missing)

1670: Aha! We pulled the Babs out of Republic! French are still in Democracy, though.

1675: Nippur and Ur shelled down to size 1, I was THIS close to taking Ur, but I didn't have enough attackers in place to take down the 1 hp infantry still guarding it. Oh well, we have enough artillery in place and attackers that it shouldn't be a problem taking on the next turn. Nippur is a tough nut to crack, being in the hills. Maybe if we can take Ur and get cavalry first, it would be easier. Or we could just toss a bunch of infantry at it until it finally breaks. Attrition on the front lines seems to be in our favor, the cities under attack have been shelled to size 1 so they can't draft and the babs have been showing some troubles replacing lost units.

The best news is that we're now back to our original pre-war borders and are starting to push into Babylon. I'd name our primary targets to be Ur for its saltpeter, Shurrupak for its gems, and Babylon itself to really screw the Babs over. If I'm not mistaken, Babylon might also have a wonder or two, possibly Sun Tzu.

All useful rail and mining projects have been completed in eastern Persia, there are some tiles that could be railed up in the west, but it would put the workers in some vague threat for no material gains. Pollution is starting to happen regularly, but still not every turn. We're slowly gaining naval control of our eastern coast, going on offense with ironclads versus ironclads is not a winning proposition when it's out of artillery range, but we're replacing ours faster than France is replacing theirs.

Jaffa, good luck in this war, we're slowly wearing them down, inch by inch.

 

[Zed-F]

Great job grinding away at them, CC!

Is France still building Universal Suffrage or have they switched Rheims to something else (like troops)?

 

[Carbon_Copy]

We might actually BEAT France to Universal Suffrage. Pasargadae is only a few turns away from completing it (apparently you CAN build it under war mobilization and with the mobilization production bonus, Pasargadae can build it cold in under 10 turns), and can be micromanaged to complete it sooner if we don't/can't use it as a placeholder for Hoover. I didn't check on my last turn, but Suffrage was as yet uncompleted when I began my turn.

I didn't check to see if the Babs went from Republic to Monarchy or Communism. I'm not sure which one would be better for us.

 

[Sirian]

Carbon:

I know how grinding this sort of fighting can be. You made a lot of progress. Only oops was that galleon. Losing troops is par for the course, that's why production is needed. Once we get hold of the saltpeter, we'll have cavs of our own and be in an even stronger position.

I don't know if Hoover is available under mobilization or not. (Does anyone else know for sure?) If it is, we don't need to break stride at all. If not... would be nice to collapse Joanie first. She might then go through a couple turns of anarchy, then if we make peace she would go back through anarchy, and we might even declare war again to mess her up a third time. That Bee Hatch betrayed us once, and for what? Because we had to exit early from an alliance we couldn't maintain? I'm not particularly opposed to playing another dirty trick on her in reply.

Still no word from OneInTen? If he hasn't checked in by the time Jaffa's done, I think we ought to presume him MIA and not sit around waiting on him any more. If he makes a return, we could put him back into the rotation, but no more waiting and waiting to hear from him.


- Sirian

 

[Zed-F]

Perhaps we can build Suffrage because it's a military wonder? Not sure what the scoop is with wonders & mobilization, guess we'll find out once we get Electronics!

 

[Schnarrd]

Improvements, small wonders, and great wonders all have a flag signifying which traits they go with. For example, a temple has the flag "religious," while barracks has the flag "militaristic." Under mobilization, you can build anything that has the flag "militaristic." This means that you can probably build the Military Academy and the Pentagon under mobilization (not sure about the Heroic Epic - is that also a militaristic small wonder?). Since Hoover is an Industrious wonder, I assume you can't build it.

Edit: Can you build factories under mobilization? That would mean you can also build industrious improvements, and therefore can build Hoover.

 

[sgrig]

Btw, Factories, Coal plants, etc, are not checked as industrious in civ3mod.bic, while Hoover is.

I don't think you will be able to build Hoover under mobilization , I'm pretty sure only militaristic buildings can be be built.

 

[Jaffa Tamarin]

You can't build Hoover under mobilization.

What happened to the war with the Aztecs? I don't recall anyone mentioning a peace settlement? Guess they got their iron from someone else.

1) 1680AD Captured Ur. The one unhappy citizen is retrained as a tax collector.

The culture boundary from Ur doesn't extend far enough to include the saltpeter. Drat. I make a settler in Burlington to go grab it, instead.

2) 1685AD Captured Nippur. Finish researching Electronics.

3) 1690AD Sidon founded. We have saltpeter Upgrade lots of knights.

The citizen in Ur is now content, and agrees to go work the fields.

4) 1695AD We build Universal Suffrage! Not that it's much use to us, but everyone else trying to build it wastes lots of shields. Hah!

5) 1700AD Our cavalry see action for the first time, and we take Nineveh. Nineveh is razed, and Fort Jaffa built one square south (which takes rubber and horses from Babylon -- this seems to be their only source of horses, too ).

We need to make peace with someone so we can start building the Dam. Babylon isn't talking, so Joan is it. France pays us 5 gold/turn for peace.

Pasagardae starts on Hoover Dam (due in 9 turns).

6) 1705AD Our big artillery stack moves into mountains overlooking Babylon. Little stack heads south.

8) 1715AD We capture Babylon and the Art of War! Babylon garrisoned with huge stack of pikemen rounded up from our backline cities.

10) 1725AD Tech catch-up. Trade Electronics plus 100 gold to India for Refining and Steel. Trade Electronics to France for 50 gold/turn (since they would just get it from India, and I don't mind them wasting a few turns building Hoover).

 

[Zed-F]

Compared to where we were not too long ago, sweating bullets with the Babs threatening to overrun us at any moment, things look great! So most of the world is mad at us, who cares, we're now strong enough to take them all on. Way to go everyone, looks like we finally have tamed this dragon of a game!

Factories, Rails, Mobilization, all were key for us. As I said earlier, the AI can't touch human players in Industrial age warfare.

Next up: we have some lux to grab in Babylon - gems at Shurrupak, wine at Ur once it expands (could use a worker to get a colony there in the meantime), and ivory at a small town on the way to Ellipi, the last "big" Bab city @ 10 pop (and their new capital.) These will help with the happiness factor at home, as some of our smaller cities are still building cathedrals (thank goodness we got Sistine!) From there, it's just mopping up what's left of Babylon -- its heart is cut out, and all that's left is a thin shell ripe for collapse; the cities can't reinforce each other and are too small to build much in the way of units anyway. No way we'll let France or the Aztecs grab any of that land, it's all ours by right! We've shed enough blood for it...

After that, what next? All victory conditions are enabled, do we want to wipe out the Aztecs and French too, and go for domination? Or do we just sit back and consolidate, and let them decide the next move?

 

[Sirian]

Waiting to hear from Carbon about whether or not we're waiting on One to inform us of his status.

- Sirian

 

[Carbon_Copy]

I think, considering our rep is blackened toast by now with everyone besides India, a diplo victory is out of the question (but a diplo LOSS might still be within our grasp...I think Babylon or India could beat us on a UN vote, so make sure to prebuild for the UN when that time comes). We don't have enough culture going on in any one city to qualify for a 1-city culture victory, and I think it may be too late to be in the running for the 100K civ culture victory. We're neck-and-neck on the tech race and stuck in a low-trade government for the forseeable future, a space victory we could probably win, but it would be sweating bullets to the end.

I think Domination is our most viable victory condition right now. The question is if we could score a domination victory without having to invade France (probably not). Then again, after all the pain France has put us through in recent years, being on the receiving end of our tanks wouldn't be cruelty, it would be karma. I think right now what we need to do is to conquer Babylon and Azteca, then roll over France with our tanks when we've finished our business on this continent. Then, if it's too much of a pain to raise our culture quick enough for domination, we invade India and win by conquest, though after all India's done for us, I'd be almost sad if we had to conquer them (Then I look at Bombay's city placement and I don't feel so bad about doing that). Considering how popular Domination seems to be, I've never won by it (though I almost did when I played 3 turns of LK6).