RBTS4 - Divine Charlemagne

1. Can I be as aggressive as possible with the whip? (I am strongly in favor of "get done with all whips while the city is small" philosophy, but some people don't like +4 whip anger, so I will not do it if others object.)

For a succession game, I would probably say no, as you can leave future players with little to do if cities are crippled from happiness penalty. I'm also not sure the tradeoff is worth it (we lose a lot of strategic flexibility with a 40-turn anger duration).

Considering that we have fairly good production in all four cities, whipping actually seems less necessary than usual to me. (That is, if Cologne can already pull close to 10 shields/turn, I'm not sure we really gain anything by whipping it.)

2. Should I start pumping militar out of Cologne right away, or can we build the standard monastery+temple first? (I assume Forge and Barracks are a given and Library is superflous, since it will be pure production for now.)

I would definitely continue to invest in infrastructure for the moment. If we're going to build cottages on those river tiles (and I think we should), a library is almost certainly also worth it.

3. Should we make an effort to hire scienists for an academy, or is that less needed in this scenario?

Hmm... less necessary, but probably couldn't hurt. Mainz is probably the best candidate, if you want to go this route.

4. Can I make any trade available, or are there techs we should avoid getting or giving?

I see no reason not to trade for whatever we can get at this point. :)

PS I like the idea of using missionary as a scout, but I need to compare the costs before making a decision.

The only real problem with this idea is that there are barbs on this map, who will kill a missionary if they run into him. If we're going to stick to "civilized" lands, however, it's not the worst idea. Very creative thought, Bede!
 
The focus of these turns is going to be on infrastructure buildup, assuming we still have a window of peace.

Inherited turn - For some reason it's turn 24. So I guess turn count went back to normal. The empire looks mostly good, but Manz is working unimproved grassland. I switch it to forests for now. (If you have to work unimproved tiles to grow, at least use grassland forests.) This triples the city's production capacity. I also move from grassland to forest at the capital.

Note: Bavarian leader is annoyed with us already. (-4 for trading with enemies) That could cause problems. Perhaps we should convert him to Christianity.

I also notice that scout costs 3 times less than a missionary, but I'll hold off on training either for now, because I want to get the forges up ASAP.

642AD (turn 25) - Mainz Granary->Forge(24). Worker goes to mine Copper, because we have enough happiness for now, but need production. Worker at Cologne roads the Iron mine. (Iron is already connected by river, but it's better to have a road there anyway, in case we need to defend that hill. And the worker is already there. I will not go back to road coal mine, but when worker is already on a hill or a forest tile, we might as well spend the time to build road in case we'll need it later.)

644AD (turn 26) - Hestral Granary->Forge(24).

Borders of Mainz expand, allowing us to meet Saxon leader, who is also annoyed. That Saxon border next to Mainz is a little too close for comfort. I wonder if we should gift a tech to that guy just to improve relations, open borders, and convert him.

646AD (turn 27) - Worker from Cologne goes to build a cottage for Mertz.

648AD (turn 28) - We see a barb warrior south of Hestral. Where are those Papal Pikemen we were supposed to be getting?

650AD (turn 29) - We meet Chiperic, who is cautious with us and has only 2 cities. Gungoband reaches our Favor rank, with 43 Favor. (We have 48.)

Capital Worker->Forge(13). The farm is given back to Mainz, which can now be reconfigured to work both quarry and mine and still grow quickly, bringing its Forge's ETA down to 9 turns. This wil be sped up further by a later whip.

652AD (turn 30) - There is now a Barb border north of Cologne. I also notice that Mainz has higher production potential because of more hills and forests. Mainz is already up to 10 production, and I'll build another mine after Winery is complete.

654AD (turn 31) - Cologne Forge->Monastery(3). This should get us up to 50 favor.

656AD (turn 32) - Capital can now hurry Forge for 2 pop, which I do because it has low production and the two citizens to be killed are working grassland forests. Mainz can also hurry forge for 2 pop, and I do it because the city is at the happy cap and has an insane food surplus now that Winery is ready. In fact, I might give the farm back to the capital to enable more whipping.

658AD (turn 33) - Capital Forge->Library(14) (Should be whipped too.) Mainz Whips its Forge. (I forgot to do it last turn.) It turns out that tiles diagonally from the river aren't connected to it, so the road in forest north of Hestal doesn't connect it to trade network. I build another road west of that forest to fix this.

660AD (turn 34) - Cologne Monastery->Barracks(3). This will make sure at least one of our cities can train military. We also finally can Open Borders with Saxon leader, which I do. I had opened borders with the other guy I met the moment I met him.

Notes:
1. Capital can whip Library, which I recommend we do, because it has lots of food, little production, and library is the most expensive building available anyway. There is huge happiness surplus now that Forge is completed and Gems and Wine are connected.
2. When Capital regrows its population we can hire scientists for an academy.
3. Mainz will probably make a better production capital than Cologne. Now that happiness cap is much higher, it doesn't need to be whipped any more.
4. Hestral is not working its mine, because it needs to grow. Perhaps we should make some farms to enable it to work the mines.
5. One of the workers is left unmoved. I suggest either cottages for Cologne, mine for the capital (if you don't want to keep whipping it), or farms for Hestral.

PS I think we should convert Bavarians and Saxons as soon as possible. Perhaps replace the Barracks at Cologne with a missionary. I am very worried about them, and converting them will make our borders much safer, in addition to giving victory points.
 

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You got me interested with this one--I'm playing a shadow game and I'll post a spoiler.

However, it seemed like you used full map knowledge to place the starting cities--when I started it up I only saw the available tile locations. I took your city placement to make the games more comparable but that definately seemed like a big help.
 
Feedback is welcome, as always.

Thank you, Sullla! :lol:
I'll definitely lurk this one. I think it's more interesting than the defense scenario!
Maybe I can contribute with some silly idea eventually. Good luck! :thumbsup:
 
Well for my first Deity SG, I'll follow Sullla's advice and actually check each cities builds and tile assignments every turn. Nothing like playing ten turns in the time frame I'd normally play 30 :) This will also be my first turnset hosting images off the Civfanatics site, so hopefully Imageshack doesn't disappear any time soon....

Turn 0: Whip library in capital.

Turn 1: Give corn tile back to capital, so it can more quickly regrow and hire scientists. Start monastery in the capital.

Turn 2:



We gain favor! Our barracks and first monastery builds finish, so I start an ax and a missionary.

Turn 3:



We gain....more favor? Move workers to mine our gold and start a cottage at Cologne

Turn 5: Micro Mainz to grow faster, so i can then let the capital keep the corn.

Turn 7:





Meet this lovely lady, and offer this trade, which is accepted.

Turn 9: Missionary/military builds finish, and I start more. We luck out with the RNG.



We have three military units built, and a missionary. Hopefully the current war between AIs will give us a bit more time to build up before having to fight ourselves. Our infrastructure looks pretty good, and our average tile has great yields - almost all are improved. A scientist will pop in like 20 turns in the capital.

The Empire:



The Roster:
Sullla
Bede
Zeviz
Sunrise089 - just played
Swiss Pauli - up!
civman123 - on deck

The Save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/91988/RBTS4_-_Divine_Charlemagne_AD-0676.CivBeyondSwordSave
 
I'm going to need a skip as I'm going away for a few days (back on Monday).

Good luck and have fun!
 
I'm going to need a skip as I'm going away for a few days (back on Monday).

Good luck and have fun!

Ok, that makes Civman123 up.

As for the next turnset, I'd say just continue to build military, try to convert the neighbors (possibly should be discussed however since it's now evident that the AI will war each other, and the different religions would help), and manage growth to work improved tiles. I don't see a tremendous need to whip right now, so I'd let the cities grow. We also will probably want to get another settler out to grab some more land when the build queues open up. Good luck!
 
Good job improving our research rate. :)

The next player will discover Civil Service, so he'll be able to do some deals. Getting Feudalism and Machinery shoud be top priority. Also, there might be a chance to get some techs other AIs are lacking, so even if a straight trade for Feudalism or Machinery is impossible, it might become more feasable later.

We can probably start our expansion, training a couple settlers to settle northern dots on Sulla's original dotmap.

PS Did you see the forces invovled in AI-AI wars? What kind of armies did they use?

PPS I still think convering the last unconverted AI is very important, because the danger of their attack against us far outweighs the benefit of their potential attack against somebody else.
 
I still think convering the last unconverted AI is very important, because the danger of their attack against us far outweighs the benefit of their potential attack against somebody else.

Conversion of the heathen is a good thing as it aids our quest for Papal Favor points and gives us map information at the same time.
 
Had enough time to post today.
Well, the round started with basically nothing. The first turns, first off I cancelled Open Borders with both the warring civs, to avoid any problems as far as losing important relations. I did not resign them although Swiss Pauli if he’s up can if he deems appropriate.

Turn 2:


Which means we gained points of course. A papal pike will be really useful soon.
Another thing I decided to do was to make military our first priotity. I did not deem it important enough to build a settler, so why not kill 2 birds with one stone and take the barb city to our north defended by 4 warriors.

Turn 3:


Yes! This will be important. Nobody will take a city with this guy in!


Turn 4


Good as well. On the annoying side, I had to whip Mainz for 2 pop to stop a barb warrior from taking out our copper mine. I think it grew back pretty fast though.

Turn 6:


I however had realized that we had, ahem far more pressing matters than switching.

:eek:
(I actually noticed this on Turn 6 if you were wondering, but was so surprised I forgot the screenshot until 2 turns later. I immediately began to rearrange all the units, but (weed alert!) forgot the papal pikeman until several turns later.

Turn 8


That’s his force?:lol: :lol: I can handle that. Upgrade a warrior to a spear. Meanwhile the units were gathering in Mainz.

Turn 10
He declares war and sucides one of his light cavs for no reason. Papal pike is 1 turn away.


The Empire
Domestic Advisor:




Financial advisor:



Civics:



Foreign (techs)



Foreign (resources)


Foreign (active)




Foreign (glance)



Foreign (relations)


And the battlefield


(for him)



(for us)


Demographics (info)



and the save
 

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OK, I have the save file and should play sometime tonight or tomorrow. (Swiss Pauli said to skip him until Monday; we'll catch him on the next pass through the roster.) Nice job of spotting and responding to the sneak attack, civman! :goodjob: We even picked up a city at basically no cost too. If only the barbs could have founded on one of my dotmap locations, eh? :lol:

Only major problem I see is the lack of map info (we couldn't have spared even one warriors to go meet the rest of our neighbors?!) but that will be remedied on my turns. :)
 
We'll have to make Saxon Leader pay for that eventually.:lol: And yeah should have gone for more map info.
 
You do seem to be doing very well! Very nice turnsets! A few suggestions/comments:

- Given that you are protective and have access to stone (plus are in OR), it might be worth considering walls and possibly high walls in some of your border cities, possibly even prioritizing this over more units (depending on how your units manage defending against the Saxons of course, and your future military plans). Walls can be bombarded, but basically buy you time - whilst in vanilla civ, the AI suicided too often on your defences, I've noticed a few times in Bts that the AI is a little too religious with the bombardment - a few times it would have had a reasonable chance of taking my (rather poorly defended...) cities by attacking straight away, but it religiously spends a turn bombarding the defences, giving me more than enough time for reinforcements - I think its strategy might have gone a little too far the other way...

- I definitely agree with getting the scouting going. You need to know how best to allocate your limited resources, especially when some objectives/situations are time limited/critical (i.e. settling before all the land goes, missionary-ing before the AIs/trade routes, preparing defenders in time to repel sneak attacks, opportunities for um-err "settlerless" expansion)

- When the defence of some of your cities depends a lot on warriors (or other weak but upgradable units) as it does at the moment, it might be worth toggling between 0% and 100% science (still the same average research rate) to maximize the fraction of time you are in a position to do "emergency" upgrades. (A side-effect of this is that you get a few more leaders 'popping in' with tech-trade offers involving your cash, which on occasion can alert you to useful opportunities).

- The increased cost of settlers in this scenario can easily throw off your "feel" on the appropriate time to build settlers - if you're used to waiting till they can be completed in 6-7 turns before producing one for your 5th city (that often feels about right to me), you might easily wait too long thinking that they're premature because they will take too many turns. I notice quite a few foreign borders now, not far from your own... Although you may well have some other/better ideas/orrportunities for "settlerless expansion" depending on how things go with the Saxons & Barbies, it's hard to tell what is the best way...

- I think that Bavarian Leader is actually female.
 
I downloaded the save yesterday, expecting to play it today. However, my computer is currently getting a "blue screen of death" from Windows and refuses to start at all. :cry: I'm posting this from my laptop, which runs just fine - only problem is that the laptop doesn't have nearly good enough specs to run Civ4, let alone the expansion. So... you're going to have to skip me for the moment, until I can get my computer fixed again. That's a major disappointment, since I really wanted to play these turns. :( But I'm not going to put the game on hold until my problems are solved either.

Sullla
Bede <<< UP NOW
Zeviz <<< on deck
sunrise089
Swiss Pauli
civman123
 
How will I ever manage to jump these stone walls without Sulla's stout war horse giving me a lead and knocking down the first course?

Got it for tomorrow.
 
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