Re: List of Permitted and Prohibited Exploits

[Moonsinger]

I have a few questions about the GOM rule, if you don't mind.

#1. Are we allowed to rush units or buildings while the city in civil disorder?
#2. Are we allowed to rush units or buildings while the city is riotting?
#3. Are we allowed to borrow gold or trading gpt/tech/whatever then provoke the AI into declaring war? Note: our reputation would still remain spotless because it was them that started the war, not us!
#4. Are we allowed to sabotage our trade route or to intensionally end the trade agreement before its expiration without going to war?
#5. Are we allowed to teleporting our troops across a great distance? For example, gifting a city full of troop to the AI for the purpose of teleporting all our troops instantly to our capital. We could also intentionally move our troops into AI territory for the purpose of automatic move over to the opposite site of the world.
#6. Are we allowed to use DaveMcW free tech trick? Since it involves breaking into the production cycle (sometimes, that mean adjusting the luxury slider in order to gain enough gpt to make the trade).
#7. Are we allowed to rush units, buildings, SS parts, or Wonder during the production cycle (in between turn or after the AI turn but before our turn)? For example, you could get your nuclear power plant up running on the same turn that you discover the nuclear tech.

Just wondering! I'd like to know where you stand on these issues so that I can avoid any resentment down the road. And yes, I may be playing the GOTM.

Thanks in advance for your answer!

 

[ainwood]

High moonsinger - it would be great to have you back playing!

We are debating (with a view to updating) the list of exploits at the moment, but I'll try to answer your question as I can (from teh current rule-set).

I have a few questions about the GOM rule, if you don't mind.

#1. Are we allowed to rush units or buildings while the city in civil disorder?
#2. Are we allowed to rush units or buildings while the city is riotting?

Do you mean resisting for part two? Presumably this is by disbanding other uints. Yes - this is allowed (if there is some other dodgy way of rushing in disorder / resistance, then please tell me!)

#3. Are we allowed to borrow gold or trading gpt/tech/whatever then provoke the AI into declaring war? Note: our reputation would still remain spotless because it was them that started the war, not us!

Yes. If you can't goad them into war, then you're stuck.

#4. Are we allowed to sabotage our trade route or to intensionally end the trade agreement before its expiration without going to war?

Yes. You WILL geta rep hit for this.

#5. Are we allowed to teleporting our troops across a great distance? For example, gifting a city full of troop to the AI for the purpose of teleporting all our troops instantly to our capital. We could also intentionally move our troops into AI territory for the purpose of automatic move over to the opposite site of the world.

No. We've ruled this one out.

#6. Are we allowed to use DaveMcW free tech trick? Since it involves breaking into the production cycle (sometimes, that mean adjusting the luxury slider in order to gain enough gpt to make the trade).

Can you be more specific on this? In general, you aren't allowed to do anything that allows the same gold to be used twice inter-turn.

#7. Are we allowed to rush units, buildings, SS parts, or Wonder during the production cycle (in between turn or after the AI turn but before our turn)? For example, you could get your nuclear power plant up running on the same turn that you discover the nuclear tech.

Yes, provided you don't use production / specialists etc twice in the inter-turn.

 

[MeteorPunch]

#5. Are we allowed to teleporting our troops across a great distance? For example, gifting a city full of troop to the AI for the purpose of teleporting all our troops instantly to our capital. We could also intentionally move our troops into AI territory for the purpose of automatic move over to the opposite site of the world.

I almost used this one. It's not listed on the banned exploits list. I vaguely remembered a discussion on it though, so I didn't.

 

[Gyathaar]

Do you mean resisting for part two? Presumably this is by disbanding other uints. Yes - this is allowed (if there is some other dodgy way of rushing in disorder / resistance, then please tell me!)

Planting and chopping forests

Yes. You WILL geta rep hit for this.

Not nessesarly always...

No. We've ruled this one out.
Can you be more specific on this? In general, you aren't allowed to do anything that allows the same gold to be used twice inter-turn.

This involves trading techs to the AIs in the interturn before you get your own free tech if you are a scientific civ. (or using philosophy to trade for eg. CoL in the interturn so you can get Republic as free tech)

 

[Methos]

This involves trading techs to the AIs in the interturn before you get your own free tech if you are a scientific civ. (or using philosophy to trade for eg. CoL in the interturn so you can get Republic as free tech)

Very interesting and something I had never considered. Thanks!

 

[Moonsinger]

High moonsinger - it would be great to have you back playing!

Thanks! I was playing the last two GOTMs, but I didn't have time to fininsh them. May be I will have enough time to finish one in the near future.

Do you mean resisting for part two? Presumably this is by disbanding other uints. Yes - this is allowed (if there is some other dodgy way of rushing in disorder / resistance, then please tell me!)

Yes, you can plant and chop the forest like Gyathaar said! That actually the best way to remove the resistance. For more info, check out my little post.

Yes. If you can't goad them into war, then you're stuck.

That may happen to the average players, but not to a pro.

Yes. You WILL geta rep hit for this.

More detail via PM.

No. We've ruled this one out.
Can you be more specific on this? In general, you aren't allowed to do anything that allows the same gold to be used twice inter-turn.

Actually, I don't think adjusting the slider will cause gold to be used twice during the inter-turn. Don't worry about this! If you have ruled this one out, then it's out!

 

[Gyathaar]

Actually, I don't think adjusting the slider will cause gold to be used twice during the inter-turn. Don't worry about this! If you have ruled this one out, then it's out!

It can first be used for tax and/or sci, and then lux..

 

[Renata]

We haven't ruled that one out. Interturn trades upon learning a new tech are allowed, even with lux slider adjustment.

I'm a bit concerned about Gyathaar's 'not always' and your comment on the same thing; I assume someone's found a way around getting a rep hit from pillaging a resource you're trading away. We'll have to decide on that one once more is known.

@ MeteorPunch -- yes, we decided to rule that out as an exploit during/after COTM9, but it hasn't made its way into the list yet. As ainwood mentioned, the staff is currently discussing changes and updates to the list.

Renata

 

[Renata]

It can first be used for tax and/or sci, and then lux..

That would be disallowed, yes. But I think Moonsinger was talking about decreasing science to allow paying for tech with gpt, then increasing the slider again afterwards. As long as the lux tax remains the same before and after the trade, nothing is used twice.

Renata

 

[Xerol]

I've accidentally jumped units before, but only to uninhabited coast-accessible islands, only because I was attempting to get units home, and they kicked me out, and those were the nearest open land tiles.

 

[ainwood]

Yes, you can plant and chop the forest like Gyathaar said! That actually the best way to remove the resistance. For more info, check out my little post.

I see! Very clever, and also very allowable. From the C/GOTM perspective, its fine. The settlers will be from the other civ, and therefore any city founded will be (slightly) more likely to revolt, but I presume you just avoid settling until they are wiped-out?

 

[Jove]

I'm glad to see all this cleared up.

How about one more issue. Are there any limits to what we can do when it comes to drafting/disbanding? That is:
1. Can we purchase workers for the sole purpose of joining/drafting/disbanding?
2. Can we draft conscripts for the sole purpose of disbanding them to build other units?

I think these are allowed, but I've watched in vain for a confirmation of that.

 

[Xerol]

I hope not, I do both of those all the time. The conscription thing I use to rush improvements in very corrupt outlying cities when I desperately need my cash for other things. But it's not constant drafting/disbanding, I just do it when my cities stop growing and I don't need any more workers, and there is of course an unhappiness penalty associated with it as well.

I buy workers from allies (usually I decide that they're gonna be allies for the whole game) and join them into core cities in the early middle ages usually - as long as I don't go to war with them, my cities get up to full size quickly(after building aqueducts) and there isn't much of a penalty to that, but this is the earlier game.

 

[Renata]

They're both allowed. Just don't join a worker to a city that can't support it in terms of either happiness or food, and I think you're fine.

Renata

 

[Moonsinger]

That would be disallowed, yes. But I think Moonsinger was talking about decreasing science to allow paying for tech with gpt, then increasing the slider again afterwards. As long as the lux tax remains the same before and after the trade, nothing is used twice.

Renata

Thanks Renata! You read my mind. First lower the lux and science slider to gain enough gpt to buy the AI's free tech, then of course, we sell them our free tech to get those gpt back,then we readjust the slider back to its original position.

 

[ThERat]

I have a few questions regarding reloading, just to clarify whether those are considered exploits or 'legal'.

1. Save game before IT and later reloading to replay the IT to check on things missed during the IT (such as how many units were lost, what was exactly attacked).

2. Save game, change MM for a city and reload to check on the actual difference that MM has done (such as more science beakers, gold etc.).

3. Save game, load another different game and go back to initial save.

I do not know how all these actions affect reload count, but I would like to know whether the above are ok. These reloads would, of course, not alter the game such that a 'better' outcome was ensured.

 

[AlanH]

We would recommend that you don't do any of these during the game. Every "unnecessary" reload makes your game entry more suspicious and our job of adjudication more difficult. I'm sure you can understand that detailed investigations to confirm that high reload levels have had no impact on a game are tedious, time consuming, and may ultimately be less than conclusive, leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

High reload rates are not the only indicator we watch, but they are never ignored when they occur. We have a lot of statistics accumulated over the years the competition has run, and we know pretty well what the bell curve looks like.

Of course, you are going to play other games between C/GOTM sessions, but SG turn sets are not so frequent that they should have a drastic effect on your session lengths, and surely they, and private games, can wait for natural breaks in your competition game? Or there may be another option ...

At one time when I was tracking two SGs and a GOTM, and testing the GOTM installers, I was running multiple simultaneous instances of Civ3 on my computer. This meant I could leave the GOTM running, uninterrupted in the background, while I dealt with the other tasks in another copy of Civ3. I don't know whether this is an option for Windows players, but it was no problem to run two or three copies on my Mac.

By all means, save as often as you like, or use CivAssist to create an automatic archive of all your autosaves, and then go back and do post mortems later ... after you've finished and submitted. But don't reload your saves unless you have to quit the game or you suffer a crash. If you are suffering multiple crashes then you should seek technical help rather than submit a game with a high reload count.

 

[Xerol]

It doesn't work under XP, at least, but there is a workaround - make an additional user profile, log out of one(leaving the process running - this is equivalant to "hibernating" the comptuer) and log into the other, and run Civ3 again. Just don't screw with any files that might've been open in the other session, otherwise you may end up with some REALLY wierd errors.

I haven't tried this, but it SHOULD work.

 

[Gyathaar]

I don't know whether this is an option for Windows players, but it was no problem to run two or three copies on my Mac.

On windows you can run only a single copy at the same time.. however you can run Vanilla civ, and either ptw or c3c at same time (cant run ptw if c3c is running or other way around)

 

[AlanH]

Wow! Finally, something I can do with Civ3 on my Mac that can't be done on Windows I'm so proud!