Real Strategy (AI) 2.0

Making AI better. One bit at a time.

  1. Raven_2012

    Raven_2012 Chieftain

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    Yeah the Devs were saying they are taking the training wheels off the planes and letting them go wild. They were saying they kept the AI planes that way on purpose and forgot. And now in GS we get to see them finally. I am actually curious on those AI plane changes from GS.

    I just finished my game with Airpower Fix mod. I didn't notice every nation having planes, but I did notice my neighbor German having a lot. I was playing England. German had planes up right away, he was also winning the game and occupied a lot of land too. Scotland was north of me and occupied a smaller chunk of the continent, which was funny, looks like the UK. Germany to my left massed a large air and he used it. He went after Scotland hard, sent them all together at once. He took a few cities.

    Any Air AI tweaks or official fixes are welcomed, the game above showed me that. Made for a nice later game strategy.
     
  2. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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  3. Pusperk

    Pusperk Chieftain

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    Great job!
    You write about lua function on scoring plot settlement.
    Please can you write us this function and parameters?
     
  4. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    In Player object, in UI context: GetGrandStrategicAI ():GetSettlementRecommendations(). It returns a 3-elements table of {SettlingScore, SettlingLocation}. Location is a plot index.
    If you want to play around with it, I attach a very useful tool for that. The game shows icons for recommended locations, so I added a tooltip for that that shows info used by PlotEvaluations.
     

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  5. Pusperk

    Pusperk Chieftain

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    Thank you. I spended much time looking for this function. I do not expected presence this function in file
    WorldViewIconsManager.lua.
     
  6. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    Wow... wow.. wow... I have just been positively surprised by Civ6. And thrilled.
    I have just watched Australia killing 2 civs with jet bombers. Curtin built more than 20 of them, started 2 wars (simultaneusly!) and took 4 cities in less than 10 turns. Every turn I watched his carpet raids literally killing and pillaging everything: encampments, units, cities. Here are some pictures:
    - Majapahita - he destroyed encampment with bombers, took city with land units, then killed few ships with bombers.
    - Ternate - he went directly for the city with bombers, also killed a unit close by.
    - Banjarmas - same here, destroyed city defenses, and then started killing ships.
    And at the south he took Madrid, mostly with land units, bombers destroyed an encampment.
     

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  7. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    Infixo updated Real Strategy with a new update entry:

    Version 0.7 Naval strategies and more

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
  8. Revolutionist_8

    Revolutionist_8 Prince

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    This is so exciting! You bear the beacon of light of a good AI, Infixo! :D Keep up the good work! :)
     
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  9. Ghost73

    Ghost73 Chieftain

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    Have you made any changes to the weights for settle locations?

    The AI will always settle as close as they can to their other cities even if there is a better spot just a couple tiles away. I'm tempted to start changing some values myself, but I'm curious about how you would improve it.
     
  10. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    @Ghost73 I changed but not in version 0.7. New params are from the 1st posted version.
    Read about PlotEvaluations and Settlements systems and feel free to experiment.

    AI settles cities close to each other because of Nearest Friendly City param. In vanilla it is -10 meaning that a city 1 tile further is scored 10pts lower. No surprise that they settle as close as possible, 10 pts is worth of 2 resources, or 5 hills.
     
  11. bramage78

    bramage78 Chieftain

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    Is this mod compatible with Quo’s combined tweaks? Keep up the good work!
     
  12. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    I don’t use Quo’s mod, so can’t say for sure, but from description it seems that that should be ok.
    Can’t say anything about results however, I test RST with vanilla and R&F base game, not overhaul mods.
     
  13. Tolerant

    Tolerant Chieftain

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    Hello, Infixo! I would like to say a big Thanks for all additional gameplay mods that you are created. All of them have many organic gameplay ideas and when I tried them for a first time - then I use almost all constantly. Especially I like Real Tech Tree, Real Science Pace. And other Real mods too. Several months ago I have planned to translate Real Eurekas in Russian for the Russian steam community and almost done that, but then I found out about the Gathering Storm (and I'm very exited about it) and so I decided to wait to translate the updated version. That was a lot of textwork to translate RE correctly and beatifully with immersive humour and gueslines proverbs.

    What should I say about Real Strategy? I decide to discript fairly my last gaming experience. I've played one complete game with Real Strategy (ver 0.7). Played on the Emperor difficulty. Some of the Civfanatics members would say that's not hard enough for a REAL CIV EXPERIENCE, but I'm always playing on that difficulty because I don't like when AI gets too much unfair bonuses. Personally I would prefer the game where AI don't get any bonuses at all but plays very smart. That's why I'm trying to find optimal difficulty mod since 2017. At least when devs teach the AI to act smarter in combat, then I'll find that satisfyingly. Even with Ai + (Which one I use more than a year, but I don't play in civ very often, have another games too...in different genras) computer don't know how to position troops correctly. And some times the decisions is soo stupid, that I would like a have a real pity to him. In 2019 AI in Civ should be smarter. I don't feel the progress in this area of game development. I know that only one person was responsible for AI in Civ Development team and that's not enough. These should be at least five or seven men. I do have a positive smart AI experience in some other games (some of them are Sony exclusives where developers do care about ai....one of them - its just one example of a smart, really smart Ai in a FPS genre was a Killzone 2 in PS3 era). I understand that in global TBS making a good Ai is a complicated task but they should enhance it and exceed their borders. Now I'm not going to compare the behavior of artificial intelligence with the behavior in previous Civ games, but I should say that in Civilization IV (in that times...and I'm still love Civ IV) I'll never wanted a better aI mod...but the AI also gets the unfair bonuses there and the unit placing system was different. So for that time (14 years ago) that was normal, but now we need changes, we need evolution, not just only multiplayer orientation, but a good AI behavior. Rules of the game has changed and so the Ai should become more intelligent in using various game mechanichs, placing districcts correctly. Sometimes the AI placed harbor adjacent to a war camp. Where is the sense of it? Why not the near the commercial hub? I'm very like the idea of districts, they make the Civ VI a different from its predecessors. So that was my thoughts about all intelligent problems - weak unit position, sometimes weak district management and on the top - the unfair bonuses that will drive the AI ahead of you no matter how awful he plays. That's what the base game would have to offer. The Ai+ changes the situation in some right directions, but when you play - you encounter so many events and mechanics so you can't really say what exactly the mod author has changed and improved and what was from the base game.

    Now close to the deal. What should I've noticed when played with Real Strategy. Emperor difficulty, played as Russia. I've decided to achieve a Religious victory. Unlike the Ai+ the computer gets the unfair bonuses but that was discribed in Mod discription so I was prepared for that. As I played peacefully, spreading my Religion, I had the opportunity to watch the AI behavior. In the earlier eras the are indeed was less wars, especially when you are yourself play nice and don't give the AI additional reasons to hate you (warmongering is a very controversial system for my opinion and it still needs additional tuning). My neighbours on the continent was Indonesia and Sumeria. And what should I say - good neighbours. Spread religion and then made them friends and allies for the end of the game. Gilgamesh like alliances. In score they were average. Maybe because I've settled more lands on the continent, but they have they space too. In other continents I've met other civilizations. In earlier eras some City-States was concured by them. Gorgo of Sparta is trying to protect them (maybe because she had secondary unique goal in this particular game). In the Medieval era some other civilizations (Scotland, Cree, Grece) had fly away forward in science by the unfair bonuses. Poundmaker couldn't produce too much science from his territory. I don't know what Cree smoke in their vigvams... Even Gilgamesh which one have built his Ziggurats like crazy couldn't smoke frome them too much science. :) Interesting thing - Gilgamesh doesn't built Campuses. He collects Science from Ziqqurats. That's interisting strategy, but Isau (author of the Quo's Combined tweaks) doesn't like this and made Ziqqurats limited to the city. Important note - I've played withoud Quo's Combined tweaks. That's interesting mod, I've even translated its older version in Russian, but Isau updates it too many times so my translation is getting too old right now. And it's changes so many things, some of them are very controversial, but at least Isau allows users to tweak them in options file. In this particular game Poundmaker had a secret trait "Obsessed with Science". So he receives science bonuses... Robert Bruce of Scotland go far forward in science too. In this game I made as much alliences as possible to prevent Cree to attacking me through the sea. Wars started from Renaissance Era. Many Ai Civs even in 1500's entered in the New time. With Ai+ I've never experienced this fast science jump. In science I was in the second echelon. But in culture and Religion I can compete with others and at that time on the score I was in the first positions. Cree wars against India and conquered some of its cities. India attacks Egypt and conquered several cities.Egypt was a backward country in terms of technology. Norway was conquered by Robert Bruce of Scotland. Robert Bruce was close to Science victory, but Poundmaker and I began Spy diversions in his Cosmoports to destroy projects. I learn interesting thing about espionage - two spies from the different countries actually can work in the one district of the third civilization, and if one failed, the other spy may succeed. Ai uses spies wisely. Maybe in Ai+ it uses spies good too but there I'm also see good effect. On another continent Gorgo wage war against Trajan of Rome. Rome lagged behind technology in Greece, but fought bravely. Later, I sold oil to Traian to equalize his chances against Greek tanks. They fought until the end of the game. And at that time I was spreading religion. What I've noticed is that Ai Civs had start unite their units to corpuses and armies more often. In terms of war strategy I cant tell much because I play peacefully at this time. My previous game for Macedon was a complete opposite. But I've noticed that AI units began to retreat wisely. Poundmaker constructed a large set of artillery and used it in sieges. Gorgo used spies against me to recruit rebels on my territory. That was wise. Indonesia built Venetian arsenal and created a poverful armada which one ofcourse was not the most technological fleet at the seas. Poundmaker had the scaryest fleet. Good thing that he was my ally. Gilgamesh also built good fleet. I don't saw epic naval battles but that's because most of the strong civs were allied to each other...and knew how to stay f#ck out of each other. Only Gorgo and Chandragupta was trying to prove something to the strong civs... In any case I could continue to describe this...that was interesting.... In the end Scotland couldn't achieve Mars because Poundmaker and I destroyed all Scottish Cosmoports. In the end I achieved Religious Victory. That was not easy but overall in this game I didn't meet really strong opponent on Religious battlefield. Only two civilizations offered me less decent resistance, but many factors played here. Plus the political situation on the continents. In something I was lucky. But the resistance was rather weak. To conquer these civilizations with the help of brute force would be much more difficult. From other observations, more civilizations began to build wonders. Diplomatic relations between civilizations have become more literate. Less betrayals and surprise attacks. Civilizations have become more willing and more likely to make alliances. But still, in the last era, everything is overshadowed by increased fines of militarism and everyone is again beginning to relate poorly to each other. But that's the basic game mechanic dilemma. I compare all this in relation to AI +...About planes and air fight... Only Gorgo built one Airplane field and started to create planes to attack Arabia. But in that moment I have won the game by Religious victory. None of the civilizations created the Manhattan project and the Ivy project. But maybe it's for the best. At least in the virtual world there will be no nuclear explosions. But seriously, Robert Bruce, Poundmaker or Gorgo could do it in a potential way and they had a lot of time for it. But they did not. During the Civilization 4, nations more readily created nuclear weapons and even used them ... I am wondering what negative consequences from nuclear explosions will be realized in the new addition?

    Thank you for reading. May you give me some advices about your mod? If I want play without unfair bonuses should I lower the difficulty? Infixo, you said that you're played and tested Ai+? May you tell me from which difficulty level Ai+ gives the computer the unfair bonuses? On Emperor Ai+ runs fair, but Ai doesn't always plays smart. In your Real Strategy mod I saw interesting difference, and I want to continue playing with your mod but with fair rules for each civilization. I know that you wrote in the mod description about bonuses: you do not consider them unfair, but only acknowledge their necessity. So what is your opinion about game difficulties. Which one is optimal for your mod? And which one for Ai+? I didn't played on Deity level with Ai+. What's the diffirence? Please don't send me to the Ai+ mod author. I want to read your personal opinion about optimal difficulty levels for each of these mods.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
  14. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    @Tolerant Thank you for such a detailed post.
    1. Can you say what map and size was that game and how far did you get (what Era or turn number). Were some civs able to start Space Race?
    2. I also noticed that Gilgabro doesn't build Campuses. Ziggurats are good early and mid game, but he hurts himself seriously without Campuses. I tweaked his AI and in tests he builds Campuses.
    3. AI receives bonuses for various yields just from the base game. RST doesn't give any bonuses by itself (AI+ neither, for that matter). The difficulty without any bonuses is Prince. Below that a human player gets some bonuses, above that AI gets bonuses.
    4. RST works exactly the same for any dfficulty. It is entirely up to you to choose a difficulty you are comfortable with, it mostly depends on your skills. When I do tests, I usually put Emperor on but only because things happen faster due to AI bonuses.

    Imho, for a peaceful play, RST makes the game harder by at least 1 level (maybe 1,5). For domination, maybe 0,5-1. This is still mostly a matter of tactics and how AI behaves on the map, and here I cannot do much.
     
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  15. TJHaddock

    TJHaddock Chieftain

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    Thanks for the feedback, I've been following the profession of this mod for a bit now without using it myself, and I was hoping for some in-depth reviews of how the mod is being perceived, for better or worse.

    So overall what are your thoughts on the mod in terms of AI improvements? Would you say they are playing more intelligently? Are they more focused on their individual victory paths?
     
  16. TJHaddock

    TJHaddock Chieftain

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    @Infixo Thanks for making this mod. Will this mod work properly when GS comes out, and if so what changes will you likely have to make when it does in 2 weeks?
     
  17. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    There is no way to tell that without first checking how things are in GS. I also first need to play a couple of games to feel the changes myself.
    Just as I wrote in a description, I expect lots of small improvements here and there, but I also think that RST will still be needed and I will release a GS-compatible version eventually.
     
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  18. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    Infixo updated Real Strategy with a new update entry:

    Version 1.0 Official release

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
  19. Tolerant

    Tolerant Chieftain

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    Thank you for answers. I'll keep that in mind. Ofcourse I can tell the details about my last game. I used nondefault map script: Fantastical. Decided to try. Map Size: Large. Players: 12. I don't remember when exactly my game end...but approximately between 350-360 Turn... I don't have last autosave... Era: Informational. Only two civs decided to enter into Space race: Scotland and Cree. Technically Cree decided to draw back Scotland because it was very close (entered into the 3rd stage of race). In that situation I'm also began my spy diversions and worked with Cree. Together we succesufully sabotaged Robert's space programm.... And one more note: I played on Standard speed....
     
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  20. Tolerant

    Tolerant Chieftain

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    Hello, TJHaddock.I think that Infixo are doing great job. I played only one game with RST 0.7. Maybe before Gathering Storm came out I complete one more party with RST 1.0. I need to play differently these time. Maybe on Prince or again on Emperor... In my previous large post I described the main things which are got my attention. In compare to Ai+ there are indeed Ai acts differently. at least a little...thats for sure. To understand the full picture I should play more games. My advice - try it for yourself. it always interesting to try something new... Especially in the game like Civilization. I can definitely say that the computer has become somehow different to build wonders. More different rulers are now building them. Somehow more evenly ... It seemed to me that city-states had become smarter. They now even unite units in corps and armies. The computer has become more actively engaged in this. In addition, many civilizations will now create a strong fleet, as well as artillery
     

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