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Real Strategy (AI) 2.0

Making AI better. One bit at a time.

  1. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am. Moderator

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    Speaking of FearSunn's mods like Airpower AI Fix, what is your opinion of his Adaptive Difficulty? Complements or conflicts (i.e. imbalances) with Real Strategy?
     
  2. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    Downloaded it and took a quick look. There are just Lua scripts, so technically they are compatible.
    The philosophy is of course totally different, I would say opposite. AD just gives more bonuses to AI, including free units and yields. I understand that there is some logic behind it related to diplomacy. So, it doesn't fix or improve AI, just makes the game more difficult by giving even more free bonuses to AI.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  3. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am. Moderator

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    Thank you for taking a look! I wasn't particularly concerned about a mod conflict since, as you said, it is just Lua scripts and doesn't necessarily touch the AI. I was just trying to get a sense for how you feel it might perform alongside Real Strategy. In other words, the adjustments/improvements to the AI in RS make the bonuses in AD moot.
     
  4. Raven_2012

    Raven_2012 Chieftain

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    Alright thanks. I will use RST after this game ends. I don't think I can remove Airpower Fix from a save. I am going to get rid of it anyways, since Firaxis is buffing AI air when Gathering Storm comes out.
     
  5. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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  6. Raven_2012

    Raven_2012 Chieftain

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    What mod are you referring to "AD"?
     
  7. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    You can remove Airpower Fix from a save, but it is a bit tricky. You need to set the flag AffectsSaveFiles in .modinfo to 0, load a savefile and save it again. The mod will no longer be stored in the savefile, so then you can disable it and load a game without it. This trick is only possible because, in fact, Airpower Fix doesn't affect savefiles. If you do that with the mod that actually does affect - the game will either won't start or crash.
     
  8. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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  9. FearSunn

    FearSunn Warlord

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    I feel I should clarify things a little bit regarding Adaptive Difficulty.
    Indeed AD is conceptually different from Real Strategy. AD does not alter AI per se it gives AI what it is actually needs interms of gameplay. Bonuses are not free for AI. AI player should have adequate gold balance to get a unit. Also and this is very important AI gets bonuses only if it has certain diplomatic stance with human and if it is lags human.So AI standing is important and plays major role determening how much bonuses AI gets if any (each player individually).
    As already noted those two mods stand on a different philosophical grounds. Main goal of AD is not to make AI smarter or better - it is to make human player experience harder hence more enjoyable.
     
    glider1 and Elhoim like this.
  10. Raven_2012

    Raven_2012 Chieftain

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    I will give that a change. I want to see how Airpower Fix works, I am towards the late game, turn 320. So I will finish this game. I want to see your mod work from the start to finish. Thanks for help!
     
  11. Raven_2012

    Raven_2012 Chieftain

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    I am reading this part, "e.g. it doesn't know anything about another civ until it's met. This mod doesn't give AI anything for free (no units, no boosts, yields, etc.)"
    Does this mean on the higher difficulties the AI won't get those extra units, gold, resource or science boost? Or are you referring to something I am quite not aware the AI does in the game?
     
  12. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    This mod doesn't give anything. Meaning: nothing more than it is given by default.

    You will see a lot of biplanes and fighters circling around, and being moved from city to city. You will see bombers stationed in aerodromes or cities if you are determined to wait so long. If you are very lucky and AI will start a war with it might even bomb your city.
     
  13. FearSunn

    FearSunn Warlord

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    Ok, this is my first game with this on: it is turn 80 and I am already steam rolled 2 my neighbours (Aztec and Egypt) with little resistance. I've just met Georgia across the sea and find their city at 18 strenght. This rised some questions on how much ahead I am. Looking at the players stats logs and surprise surprise I am already the dominant power in the world ahead on all stats. The game is virtually won for me already.
    I am reporting this as a regular player with no intention to belittle all the hard work author of this mod put in here.
     
  14. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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  15. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    So is that better ? wouldn't you be in that situation at turn 60 in a normal game with the same setting ?

    (Sorry, couldn't find another way to point that this is a strange report for a modder specialized on AI)
     
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  16. Raven_2012

    Raven_2012 Chieftain

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    As it stands right now, no modder can reprogram the AI to make it better or worse, since the devs haven't released the DLL to allow it to be done. Right now there is ways around that to make the AI seem better at handling things, rather than reprogramming an AI.

    In reality the term AI is used very loosely in the gaming world. A true AI, will learn from its mistakes and get stronger every time, in the long run beating a human opponent without cheating and making gaming no fun. In early PC gaming history game developers when experimenting with true AI, did that. And removed it as quickly as they brought it on. The AI, would learn a few games with a player and then would out play and maneuver their human opponent. The games weren't very fun. So it comes down to, not how to make AI smart, they do that themselves, its how to make the AI dumb or seem like AI when its not. I say that is the hard part.
     
  17. FearSunn

    FearSunn Warlord

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    I am reporting results here. However beautiful the strategy you should occasionally look at the results.

    My subjective experience it is worse. AIs were vague at protecting their cities. And it is for sure wouldn't be possible with some other mods Mr. @Infixo is so dissmissive about.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  18. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    If you provide Lua.log, I will gladly check results - which strategy was chosen by each civ and why this strategy.

    This is a Strategy layer mod, not Tactics. Protecting cities is a job for Tactics.
     
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  19. FearSunn

    FearSunn Warlord

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    This is not true. City defence decisions are taken on strategic level. (PSEUDOYIELD_CITY_DEFENSES, OP_DEFENSE, BaseOperationsLimits, etc.) You've actually changed those values significantly in your mod.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  20. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    PSEUDOYIELD_CITY_DEFENSES - this controls the valuation of cities when preparing an attack, has nothing to do with defense
    OP_DEFENSE - this is a tag for defense ops, on strategic level you can only control the number of simultaneous operations, not how they are executed; when a civ it attacked this mod increases this number by 1 or 2 depending on the situation, allowing the cit to protect more cities at the same time
    BaseOpsLimits - this is the list to control number of ops
    It is like I said - this mod deals with Strategy, not tactics.
     

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