- Thread starter Infixo
- Start date
A quick question
Having a larger military than an opponent is known to incentivize the AI to declare war. So, when an AI civilization is short on a strategic resource, it should probably prioritize increasing the size of its military in order to encourage it to declare war on someone with that resource in order to grab it.
Does RS do this?
Having a larger military than an opponent is known to incentivize the AI to declare war. So, when an AI civilization is short on a strategic resource, it should probably prioritize increasing the size of its military in order to encourage it to declare war on someone with that resource in order to grab it.
Does RS do this?
@patparker No. Way too complex to program.
Mik1984
Prince
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2008
- Messages
- 483
So I did play around more with this mod, with updated version of magils 8AoP, the AI does build walls, but as the poster has mentioned, far too reluctantly. I am in a late medieval game (deity) and around 2/3 of AI cities, excluding city states does not have any walls. I managed to build up all cites with walls way before AI does, and it is rarely the case, since I usually wait until I get the civic that buffs building walls by 100%.
So, it doesn't seem that the AI is unable to build walls, but builds far too few of them, even somewhat less than in vanilla.
So, it doesn't seem that the AI is unable to build walls, but builds far too few of them, even somewhat less than in vanilla.
@Mik1984 I analyzed your game.
There are 60 major AI cities on the map (no Russia, no minors). They have 23 walls in total. So, first of all: AI knows how to build walls. There is nothing stopping them.
Now the breakdown.
Have walls: Netherlands - 5/7, Cree - 5/7, Phoenicia - 9/10, Australia - 2/3
As you can see, AI can build walls, pretty fast.
Started: Arabia - 1/5, Macedon - 1/6
Arabia has 20 techs, but Saladin goes via upper tech tree - Sailing, Selectial Nav, Shipbuilding. Just started building them.
Alex - probably too busy buidling units.
Don't have: Indonesia - 0/7, Greece - 0/4, Inca - 0/11
Two of them have barely finished Ancient Era (or are about). Indonesia - 11 techs (actually, no Masonry here), Gorgo - 11 techs (also no Masonry). No walls, obviously.
Inca is a little mysterious. Pachacuti has 25 techs, so obviously science is not holding him back. But if you look at his geo situation: he has 8 (eight!) friendly civs, he has its own continent, only has borders with 3 city-states, plus he has pretty strong military (top 3 in the game). I suppose he simply has no reason to build walls. I checked his build queues and he basically goes heavily for expansion, military, and infrastructure (districts, Settlers, Caravels, Markets, X-bows, builders, Libraries, etc.)
I also checked Alex. He goes for 2 wonders, trader, and a Settler. ALEXANDROUPOLI has Walls scheduled however. Alex has researched top of the tree (Shipbuilding, etc.) so I cannot say when he researched Masonry. Could be not long ago.
There are 60 major AI cities on the map (no Russia, no minors). They have 23 walls in total. So, first of all: AI knows how to build walls. There is nothing stopping them.
Now the breakdown.
Have walls: Netherlands - 5/7, Cree - 5/7, Phoenicia - 9/10, Australia - 2/3
As you can see, AI can build walls, pretty fast.
Started: Arabia - 1/5, Macedon - 1/6
Arabia has 20 techs, but Saladin goes via upper tech tree - Sailing, Selectial Nav, Shipbuilding. Just started building them.
Alex - probably too busy buidling units.
Don't have: Indonesia - 0/7, Greece - 0/4, Inca - 0/11
Two of them have barely finished Ancient Era (or are about). Indonesia - 11 techs (actually, no Masonry here), Gorgo - 11 techs (also no Masonry). No walls, obviously.
Inca is a little mysterious. Pachacuti has 25 techs, so obviously science is not holding him back. But if you look at his geo situation: he has 8 (eight!) friendly civs, he has its own continent, only has borders with 3 city-states, plus he has pretty strong military (top 3 in the game). I suppose he simply has no reason to build walls. I checked his build queues and he basically goes heavily for expansion, military, and infrastructure (districts, Settlers, Caravels, Markets, X-bows, builders, Libraries, etc.)
I also checked Alex. He goes for 2 wonders, trader, and a Settler. ALEXANDROUPOLI has Walls scheduled however. Alex has researched top of the tree (Shipbuilding, etc.) so I cannot say when he researched Masonry. Could be not long ago.
I auto-played the game 20 more turns to see the future.
Turn 131 - Wanaku builds walls
Turn 133 - Kashamarka builds walls
Turn 133 - all 3 Greece cities have walls (just in time, because she lost 1 city to Macedon)... and then T140 Phoenicia took it with only SHIPS!
Turn 135 - 3 Macedon cities have walls
Turn 136 - 2 more Inca cities have walls
Turn 143 summary.
Netherlands - 7/8, Arabia - 1/5, Macedon - 4/7, Greece - 3/3, Australia - 3/3, Cree - 7/9, Phoenicia - 9/10, Inca - 4/12, Indonesia - 1/7 (Jambi is building 2nd walls, top military atm).
Turn 131 - Wanaku builds walls
Turn 133 - Kashamarka builds walls
Turn 133 - all 3 Greece cities have walls (just in time, because she lost 1 city to Macedon)... and then T140 Phoenicia took it with only SHIPS!
Turn 135 - 3 Macedon cities have walls
Turn 136 - 2 more Inca cities have walls
Turn 143 summary.
Netherlands - 7/8, Arabia - 1/5, Macedon - 4/7, Greece - 3/3, Australia - 3/3, Cree - 7/9, Phoenicia - 9/10, Inca - 4/12, Indonesia - 1/7 (Jambi is building 2nd walls, top military atm).
Mik1984
Prince
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2008
- Messages
- 483
I did play the game a little more and it seems that AI indeed builds walls later on, however:
masonry is an ancient technology,
AI maybe build one or two walls before the begin of medieval era.
This may just be a situational outcome for this particular game.
However once again, to repeat something from my first post, in this game I have noticed AI building ships on small lakes, in a previous game this happened in quite large numbers, here only here and there. This is almost completely useless and could be curbed. AI should have some kind of a grasp of the size of the lake before deciding to build a ship on it and should definitely not build ships on lakes that are 5 tiles or smaller. Even if these ships could happen in a lucky way become marginally useful, there is universally always a better alternative for investing production in a different unit that might also be useful in a larger variety of ways.
masonry is an ancient technology,
AI maybe build one or two walls before the begin of medieval era.
This may just be a situational outcome for this particular game.
However once again, to repeat something from my first post, in this game I have noticed AI building ships on small lakes, in a previous game this happened in quite large numbers, here only here and there. This is almost completely useless and could be curbed. AI should have some kind of a grasp of the size of the lake before deciding to build a ship on it and should definitely not build ships on lakes that are 5 tiles or smaller. Even if these ships could happen in a lucky way become marginally useful, there is universally always a better alternative for investing production in a different unit that might also be useful in a larger variety of ways.
ryanroy837
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2019
- Messages
- 1
thanks all for your responses. i was having similar questions and your answers were helpful to me.
So, I'm playing with Real Strategy AI + Historic Speed and a bunch of other small Quality of Life mods. Started from Ancient Era on Immortal and currently in Industrial Era, but the AI never declared wars on other AI's, even those who fall way behind. The only war in the game afaik, was mine when I attacked another AI for forward settling.
Is there an issue with the mod's lowering AI aggressiveness, or worse, is it because I only play Sandbox games without any objectives?
Is there an issue with the mod's lowering AI aggressiveness, or worse, is it because I only play Sandbox games without any objectives?
firsTraveler
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2014
- Messages
- 22
Does this do anything for City States? I keep hoping that someone can make a mod that has CS keep their units in their own borders. It'd also be nice if they built suitable units; CSs do not need siege weapons and would be better off with more anti-cav and ranged.
@firsTraveler There is low-level operation (called moves) “Wander”. It has a very low priority, so major rarely utilize it. For minors however, the list of allowed moves is shorter, so “wandering” is more visible.
You may try to remove it and see if there is a difference.
You may try to remove it and see if there is a difference.
@firsTraveler As for the mod and minors. There are only a few tweaks implemented, including decrease in siege units, increase in ranged, anti-cav and air units, increase in defensive buildings.
In the file RealStrategy_Leaders.sql, there is a section “changes to minors”.
In the file RealStrategy_Leaders.sql, there is a section “changes to minors”.
Lord Shadow
Admiral
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2005
- Messages
- 2,177
Great mod. I practically don't know the post-GS vanilla AI.
Question: is there anything that can be done about AI, air defense and air unit usage? I recently played an Epic length Australia game and didn't see a single Aerodrome. The AI invested 90% of its energy into its army, the rest into a very modest navy. They managed to attempt 2-3 overseas amphibious invasions, but without escorts, the transports were easy targets.
If the AI can't manage the use and logistics of air assets, perhaps at the very least it should invest something in air defense. I figure you'd have tweaked that if it were within reach, so I'm left wondering why the AI's so fundamentally oblivious of the whole air side of the late game.
Question: is there anything that can be done about AI, air defense and air unit usage? I recently played an Epic length Australia game and didn't see a single Aerodrome. The AI invested 90% of its energy into its army, the rest into a very modest navy. They managed to attempt 2-3 overseas amphibious invasions, but without escorts, the transports were easy targets.
If the AI can't manage the use and logistics of air assets, perhaps at the very least it should invest something in air defense. I figure you'd have tweaked that if it were within reach, so I'm left wondering why the AI's so fundamentally oblivious of the whole air side of the late game.
@Lord Shadow I did try to improve air gameplay, both in terms of offense and defense. I have seen in the test games aerodromes, and bombers. Fighters were rather rare. I don't recall anti-air.
In general, entire air gameplay is a vanilla game issue, still not fixed. There's been some improvement, but I don't see people saying with full confidence that AI can actually use air units.
As for the anti-air, I'd say it is even worse. I have not seen any improvement in this area in the vanilla game like at all.
Edit. My theory is that in general support units are poorly implemented. AI only knows how to use medics and to some extent siege support. Others are too complex. From op team construction perspective, anti-air and medic are the same. There is no different category for anti-air, and this could be a root issue.
In general, entire air gameplay is a vanilla game issue, still not fixed. There's been some improvement, but I don't see people saying with full confidence that AI can actually use air units.
As for the anti-air, I'd say it is even worse. I have not seen any improvement in this area in the vanilla game like at all.
Edit. My theory is that in general support units are poorly implemented. AI only knows how to use medics and to some extent siege support. Others are too complex. From op team construction perspective, anti-air and medic are the same. There is no different category for anti-air, and this could be a root issue.
Last edited:
Lord Shadow
Admiral
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2005
- Messages
- 2,177
It could be said it's a matter of resource management and prioritization (Aluminum and district slots), but then anti-air units are resource-free, don't require much strategy other than placing them in key, static areas (I wouldn't ask for air defense coverage of moving armies, but that shouldn't be too hard either), and they're still completely ignored. It's like Firaxis ran out of budget before tackling these late game matters.
I only graduated beyond the easier difficulty levels in Civ5-Civ6, and before adversaries were always considerably behind me in tech. Is there any Civ game in which the AI makes decent use of air assets once it has the means to?
@Lord Shadow I think in Civ5 air warfare was actually working. And definitely it works in Vox Populi.
Hi! 've noticed that when using this mod, the AI don't seems to care about Religion, at least not all of them. I'm using Religion Expanded, by the way. My game is entering the 1700's and only two civs, me and another, have chosen the 4 beliefs, and all the rest just have the first two you get when ccreating a religion. The fact that one has them tells me the others should too, but they don't. Nonetheless, the ones with only two beliefs do seem to expand their own ones, as they convert cities beyond their borders. Is it a common issue or should I provide logs for you to see?
Hi Infixo, very interesting mod you have made here!
I am thinking to give it a try, however I have concern about compatibility with other modified things in my modded Civ6. For example, could such thing like the removal of aerodrome create some issue with your AI building decsion? I was thinking to play with the mod loading order to overwrite rules modifications, but maybe some issues will still exist with your AI building decision..
I am thinking to give it a try, however I have concern about compatibility with other modified things in my modded Civ6. For example, could such thing like the removal of aerodrome create some issue with your AI building decsion? I was thinking to play with the mod loading order to overwrite rules modifications, but maybe some issues will still exist with your AI building decision..
Similar threads
