Realism in CIV5

Bibor

Doomsday Machine
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Realism. Scale. One unit per tile. Archers shooting over lakes. Et cetera.

My argument is that realism is not needed or even wanted in Civilization 5.
What is needed is solid relations between entities.

Time scale in CIV is not designed to relate to unit movement speeds (i.e. 10 tiles take 500 years to complete). It relates to technological advances and eras.

Unit production costs do not relate to improvement building costs. They relate to costs of other units. Also, all unit costs relate to their designated power or ability.

Similarily, an archer unit shooting over a lake is not what it seems to be. Because archers, and their target do not relate to the lake. They relate to each other.

The lake, a tile, relates to other tiles. Lake is impassable terain for land units. It relates to other impassable terain like sea, and also to passable terrain like hills or plains.

City sizes or their number doesn't relate to actual sizes and numbers. They only relate to cities of other civilizations.

etc.

Civilization game (and almost all other games) deliberately cut relation between different groups of entities (concepts) because its a very, very wise thing to do. This way, we get to focus on the important aspects of each concept (war, culture, growth etc. in CIV case). The weak, arbitrary links between concepts are still there, skewed to match the ignored relations.
Sure, cities might be represented as a very very tiny dot on the map. And the map itself could be vector, not hex or square-based. Units could be dots too, rivers could be realistic. But seriously, what would be the fun in that? :)
 
So if most in-game entities are unrelated, you're saying Civ is like 99% percent incoherent?
 
My argument is that realism is not needed or even wanted in Civilization 5.

Well, duh.

Civ has never been heavy on realism, its not a history simulator. Right from civ 1, the whole model has been on creating a simplified stripped down gameplay-oriented environment.

They're not going to change that now. A huge portion of Civ sales are for very casual gamers, hardcore grognards are a pretty small.

So if most in-game entities are unrelated, you're saying Civ is like 99% percent incoherent?

Incoherent? Not at all. Just non-realistic. Its a history-flavored game product.
 
Agreed--the civ environment is just a beefed up chessboard, not a world simulator.
 
Its realism-flavored.
Exactly! Why we call them Egyptians and not a "civ no. 7" (borrowing from other thread)? Even when we start with them in the North, rush-kill Americans, make a defensive pact with Japan, skip Pyramids but build Sistine Chappel and Hollywood, and kill everybody with tanks in the end and otherwise have nothing in common with historical Egypt? Flavor. Nobody likes playing civ no. 7

UU and UB is also added to increase the flavor, so is Rameses II instead of RandomLeader7.

Why the Wonder which gives +1h in the sea tiles is called Moai and looks like Moai, when real Moai's most certainly had no similar properties whatsoever? Flavor.

Why +1 happiness resource (you need only one, the rest can be safely traded, it's infinite anyway) is called Sugar? Is it scientifically proven fact, that sugar plantation within the borders increases happiness of the nation, compared to no sugar? It's just flavor again. Galactic Civilizations have "morale resource" instead (that's an actual name, not a resource type) and it kinda sux.

I could list examples all day long. Flavor is the best term here. Not a simulation or something.
 
For me, gameplay trumps realism, graphics or anything else for that matter. If it's unplayable, nothing else matters.
 
If I want realism completely out of the window, I play checkers or go ( they are good games and i strongly recomend both :D ). And to be honest a game called Civilization needs to have some realism .... But not too much, otherwise things can get unplayable fast ;)
 
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