Realism Invictus

[Walter Hawkwood]

So far it was Stalin and Churchill who had something like "AI_DIPLO_FIRST_CONTACT_LEADER_JOSEF_STALIN" instead of greetings.
Umar ibn al-Khattab had nothing as a greetings, just blank field where the text should be.

Thanks, will note that for the future. The latest iteration of the 3.01 patch should have gotten rid of all the blank greetings, though.

 

[Cruel]

What will be in the new version of RI? What will be the focus?

 

[KLarsen]

Nelson Mandela doesn't have a greeting, either.

Is it not possible to continue an earlier saved game after applying the patch? I had played some 24h in the earth map but can't continue now (I get the error "failed loading" while trying to load the save).
Oh well, I was going to win anyway!

By the way, since this is my first post in this thread, I just wanted to say GREAT MOD!!! I have tried a few different mods during the past months and this is definitely the best! It has so much detail that it's difficult to know where to begin with the praise, so I'll just forgo that and ask a few questions instead:
- Doesn't the Apostolic Palace do anything at all? No proposals ever come up, not even for chairman...
- What do all the forest camps mainly in South America do? They are not built on any resources...
- Is coffee used by any building? The description doesn't say.
- The AI's don't seem very interested in founding any doctrines, though I understand this has changed in the new patch.
- Interacting (trading) with civs on the Earth map is quite slow except for vassals which is instantaneous. I'm referring to opening the trade window and selecting resources to trade etc.
- It is very difficult to bribe enemies into war on the Earth map, I don't know if this is intentional?

Except for the current loading problems the mod runs perfectly stable on my machine (64bit linux with wine emulator), time between turns on the earth map was approximately 2 mins at ~1500AD with the whole map explored and I having ~50 cities.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

What will be in the new version of RI? What will be the focus?

That's preposterous. Not two days have passed since 3.01 release.

Next version may take a longer while for us. While 3.01 was focused on fixing the obvious bugs, the next one will likely be a further development of the mod. Also, at least one new scenario will be available.

Nelson Mandela doesn't have a greeting, either.

Is it not possible to continue an earlier saved game after applying the patch? I had played some 24h in the earth map but can't continue now (I get the error "failed loading" while trying to load the save).
Oh well, I was going to win anyway!

OK, now we know it isn't savegame compatible. Thanks.

By the way, since this is my first post in this thread, I just wanted to say GREAT MOD!!! I have tried a few different mods during the past months and this is definitely the best! It has so much detail that it's difficult to know where to begin with the praise, so I'll just forgo that and ask a few questions instead:
- Doesn't the Apostolic Palace do anything at all? No proposals ever come up, not even for chairman...

Nope, seems that something got broken in the Apostolic Palace. We couldn't find what it was exactly.

- What do all the forest camps mainly in South America do? They are not built on any resources...

This is an improvement specific for minor civilizations on the Earth Map.

- Is coffee used by any building? The description doesn't say.

No. Coffee is one of the few resources that still work on their own.

- The AI's don't seem very interested in founding any doctrines, though I understand this has changed in the new patch.

Some AIs are still pretty disinterested in traditions and doctrines, but any given game will likely see some that are much more enthusiastic about them.

- Interacting (trading) with civs on the Earth map is quite slow except for vassals which is instantaneous. I'm referring to opening the trade window and selecting resources to trade etc.

3.01 should have fixed that.

- It is very difficult to bribe enemies into war on the Earth map, I don't know if this is intentional?

Once again, you may find that 3.01 has it somewhat easier, but in general, everyone has more neighbors, and thus is more afraid to get their own backs stabbed than on random maps.

Except for the current loading problems the mod runs perfectly stable on my machine (64bit linux with wine emulator), time between turns on the earth map was approximately 2 mins at ~1500AD with the whole map explored and I having ~50 cities.

Nice to hear that. That is the first time anyone reports running our mod under Wine.

 

[xarver]

First of all, I'd like to say this an awesome mod. By far the most polished out of all that I've seen; there's missing text on some units and buildings but otherwise awesome. I'm In the classical age right now, and I've been writing down positive and negative things I find about your mod so far.

Positive:

• Lots of early barbarians, realistic and fun to kill all of them.
• The aid system is wonderful.
• I like the concept of slaves becoming barbarians.
• Expanding is hard early, which is realistic, some issues though. (described below)

Negative:

• Almost impossible to have early wars because there are so many barbarians, making everyone's units have tons of promotions.
• Scouts are pretty much useless and die extremely quick.
• For some reason Washington had 8 CITIES in 620BC, everyone else had 3. I'm guessing maybe the expansion trait wasn't taken away?
• Slave revolts are much too common.

I also have 2 suggestions:

1. To prevent units getting tons of promotions from barbs, but keep the realistic aspect of it, culture should reduce the number of barbarians spawned in the area.
2. (HUGE PROJECT) Leader voice acting. (I understand this would be difficult to do)

Anyway, I hope this was helpful. Time to get back to the game. (I'm playing as the Carthagians on Noble Realistic speed)

 

[Cruel]

That's preposterous. Not two days have passed since 3.01 release.

Next version may take a longer while for us. While 3.01 was focused on fixing the obvious bugs, the next one will likely be a further development of the mod. Also, at least one new scenario will be available.

Yes, I download almost daily the SVN just to see what's new, I saw the map that Hian put. What I really like to know with this post is whether the team will give priority to mechanisms already developed by the community like 'Advanced Diplomacy', 'Expanded Cities, Multiple Production & Multiple Research', 'Usable Mountains' and Influence Driven war. I believe greatly enriched our dear mod.

 

[Cruel]

I would also point out that many civilizations have adopted the 'Theocracy model' decreasing the number of cities with multiple religions. Perhaps this is why few civilizations have adopted the 'free religion model'. Maybe it was the case for increasing the benefits of free religion.

Take a look at the civilization of Israel. Many units repeat the name like "Israeli Israeli unit"

Negative:

• Almost impossible to have early wars because there are so many barbarians, making everyone's units have tons of promotions.
• Scouts are pretty much useless and die extremely quick.
• For some reason Washington had 8 CITIES in 620BC, everyone else had 3. I'm guessing maybe the expansion trait wasn't taken away?
• Slave revolts are much too common.

• Almost impossible to have early wars because there are so many barbarians, making everyone's units have tons of promotions. - I think this is very real and depends on your starting location. I do not see this as a negative point.
• I agree with scouts - I never build them.
• I don´t have opinion. I play more in earth map where do not have the Americans.
• Slave revolts are much too common. Yes, they were common in the ancient world, if you do not want is better to adopt another form of labor.

 

[Hian the Frog]

Yes, I follow almost daily the SVN just to see what's new, I saw the map that Hian put. What I really like to know with this post is whether the team will give priority to mechanisms already developed by the community like 'Advanced Diplomacy', 'Expanded Cities, Multiple Production & Multiple Research', 'Usable Mountains' and Influence Driven war. I believe greatly enriched our dear mod.

Hi Cruel,

Glad to see you there !
Because you are using the SVN version, you are speaking about what will be RI 3.1 (in few weeks/month). You shouldn't as it is still under development and not fully stable and/or balanced.

At that time, we aren't yet decided on all the stuff we will add. It depends on many factors such as our free time to mod, easiness to code, etc. There is no secret as nothing is set in stone...
What is important now is finding and/or correcting the last major bugs (if any). The mod seems to be playable and stable: that's what players want !

PS: I need a full test of the SVN scenario. May you do it ?

 

[Serthorn]

In the topic of the slaves revolts: I also noticed they happens every other turn and do not pose any threat at all. Quite opposite - I consider them the biggest positive side of running the slavery civic, as they provide my units with valuable XP and allow a peaceful civilization to rise some Great Generals. I think they should be more of a threat then reward so I would suggest to change the mechanic of how they spawn: instead spawning 1-3 units every other turn they could spawn something like 2-3x (number of civ's cities) every 20-30 turns. That would make them more serious threat and allow them to plunder some improvements before they are dealt with. Especially if the revolt happens when the main armies are busy fighting other Civs...

 

[xarver]

• Almost impossible to have early wars because there are so many barbarians, making everyone's units have tons of promotions. - I think this is very real and depends on your starting location. I do not see this as a negative point.
• I agree with scouts - I never build them.
• I don´t have opinion. I play more in earth map where do not have the Americans.
• Slave revolts are much too common. Yes, they were common in the ancient world, if you do not want is better to adopt another form of labor.

1. It is a negative point because early wars happened a lot in history; lots of promotions make defensive units extremely powerful thus making early wars too difficult.
2. Well, there is no other form of labor at the moment; slavery at the time had many more positive than negative traits, and in fact slave revolts weren't as common as they are in this mod: most societies had it as a way of life. To make it more realistic maybe slave revolts should increase in the medieval and renaissance?

In the topic of the slaves revolts: I also noticed they happens every other turn and do not pose any threat at all. Quite opposite - I consider them the biggest positive side of running the slavery civic, as they provide my units with valuable XP and allow a peaceful civilization to rise some Great Generals. I think they should be more of a threat then reward so I would suggest to change the mechanic of how they spawn: instead spawning 1-3 units every other turn they could spawn something like 2-3x (number of civ's cities) every 20-30 turns. That would make them more serious threat and allow them to plunder some improvements before they are dealt with. Especially if the revolt happens when the main armies are busy fighting other Civs...

Agreed, except 2-3x the number of the civ's cities is way overdoing it. If I have 5 cities that would translate to 10-15 revolting slaves! That's bigger than a decent army for that empire size.

P.S. Capital got taken by barbarians. Starting a new game because my empire fell apart pretty much. :<

 

[Serthorn]

1. 
   
   Agreed, except 2-3x the number of the civ's cities is way overdoing it. If I have 5 cities that would translate to 10-15 revolting slaves! That's bigger than a decent army for that empire size.
   
   P.S. Capital got taken barbarians. Starting a new game because my empire fell apart pretty much. :<

1. 
   
   Well the number of slaves revolting should for sure be balanced toward game speed and map size.
   
   Do not worry about losing the game to barbarians - first few times I played this mod I also lost rather quickly, but i learned. To give you some tips: create some units just to counter the barbarians, promote them appropriately to have 2 moves in forest or hills depending on the type of terrain around you so you could act quickly before cavalry is available and patrol the borders: they spawn only on the terrain covered with fog of war so stationing units on some hills around your borders also reduces their number.
   Also the defensive promotions on AI units are not a big problem, as you already know they will be there: if you plan to attack your neighbors you can use the barbarians to your advantage: kill them and promote some of your units offensively. That is what I do.

 

[Cruel]

PS: I need a full test of the SVN scenario. May you do it ?

Yes Hian!. Just tell me when can I start.
Still want to look deeper into South America as I promised. As the next version will still take a long time, believe that is possible within the time.



I know that resources are tricky to insert, but would like to propose one: "Camel" would work exactly like Horse. The civilization with this resource could create units with him. Like Camel Gunner. This unit could be distinguished from light mounted units having some advantage in the desert.

 

[Palaiologos2]

I've been thinking that slavery should be implemented somewhat differently in the mod. CTP2 had a rather good way of implementing it. Essentially the same as Realism Invictus now but without "Slavery" as a labor option. You could just have slaves.
Thing is that historically there never had been a pure slave economy. Even the Roman empire was running essentially a market economy.

And could there be an ethnic cleansing option? To decrease the culture perchentage of a civ in a city, albeit with a loss of population and diplo penalty with the respected civ.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

It is a negative point because early wars happened a lot in history; lots of promotions make defensive units extremely powerful thus making early wars too difficult.

Wars between "civilized" neighbors started happening only around 1000 BC IRL, and much later in most places - before that, most conflicts can be treated as a civilization defending from invading barbarians. That's when you can quite realistically expect meaningful wars to start in your game.

Well, there is no other form of labor at the moment; slavery at the time had many more positive than negative traits, and in fact slave revolts weren't as common as they are in this mod: most societies had it as a way of life. To make it more realistic maybe slave revolts should increase in the medieval and renaissance?

Despite that, slave revolts were actually a very common thing. If anything, we downplay their frequency. Of course the reason one might think that slave revolts were rare is exactly that - those revolts were mostly put down very easily.

A quote on Roman Empire, for instance: The proverb "as many enemies as slaves" was commonly heard throughout Roman lands. Most citizens believed there was a constant danger of servile insurrection, which had more than once seriously threatened the republic, and in their minds this justified the severest measures in self-defense. They used the law of collective responsibility: if a slave killed his master, the authorities put all of the slaves in the household to death.

If you take XIX century USA, you will see that armed uprisings took place on an almost yearly basis prior to the Civil War.

I've been thinking that slavery should be implemented somewhat differently in the mod. CTP2 had a rather good way of implementing it. Essentially the same as Realism Invictus now but without "Slavery" as a labor option. You could just have slaves.
Thing is that historically there never had been a pure slave economy. Even the Roman empire was running essentially a market economy.

Slave-based economies are very different from those that don't rely on slavery. It is a very distinct step in human history, one that was almost universal.

And could there be an ethnic cleansing option? To decrease the culture perchentage of a civ in a city, albeit with a loss of population and diplo penalty with the respected civ.

Currently the concept of ethnicity itself is too unimportant to do anything like that. I have some thoughts on how to make it more interesting, but they are for later.

 

[Palaiologos2]

Currently the concept of ethnicity itself is too unimportant to do anything like that. I have some thoughts on how to make it more interesting, but they are for later.

Well diiferent cultures do cause a lot of unhappines in a city. I end up preffering to destroy cities and recolonize the lands than capturing a city. I only tend to keep wonder cities. I even raze holy ones unless they are of my religion.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Well diiferent cultures do cause a lot of unhappines in a city. I end up preffering to destroy cities and recolonize the lands than capturing a city. I only tend to keep wonder cities. I even raze holy ones unless they are of my religion.

Well, there's your cleansing. You even get a diplomatic malus for that.

 

[Snake Pliskeen]

My european scenario of World War II is almost complete and I will start testing soon. If someone want try playing I will upload all needed files on the forum, when you allow me. Now it rose another problem about religion. I find unrealistic not to have on an european map religions as Orthodox and Protestant, as they are very common in Europe and I'm planning to add them, but this is another big deal, because of art making (symbols, temples, cathedrals, Great temples, units). Do you know if something was already done even in different mods and if I can find some useful material to accelerate the process?

 

[Snake Pliskeen]

I've discovered right now that in the files Civ4ArtDefines_unit.xml there is a tag for an orthodox missionary, is it possible to use it in my scenario? It does exist a unit orthodox missionary? Can you clarify that? Sorry if I'm pressing you, but the scenario starts to be good, I think it can gives more spice to this awesome mod. Thx!

 

[Cruel]

My european scenario of World War II is almost complete and I will start testing soon. If someone want try playing I will upload all needed files on the forum, when you allow me. Now it rose another problem about religion. I find unrealistic not to have on an european map religions as Orthodox and Protestant, as they are very common in Europe and I'm planning to add them, but this is another big deal, because of art making (symbols, temples, cathedrals, Great temples, units). Do you know if something was already done even in different mods and if I can find some useful material to accelerate the process?

Take a look:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14017 (mod with many religions)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11360 (Walter´s design of churches)

Protestant
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=257923

Orthodox
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8376 (temple)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=7956 (tech icon)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=16388 (Walter´s priest)

For civ 3:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11788
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=3756 (priest)

Nubian Church (beautiful, maybe can used for orthodox)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=1021

Others religions... maybe help:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12715

 

[Palaiologos2]

I for one find that early wars are a quite often phenomeno. I ussually start them by raiding any nearby civ for workers, once i built a couple of wariiors.