They are two seperate versions. We are indeed playing version 3.71b in our current MP game, however that huge save is from a 3.7 version SP game.
Realism Invictus
- Thread starter Walter Hawkwood
- Start date
AspiringScholar
King
Where'd everyone go? 
Quick little opinion essay, which may or may not spark discussion:
What is your favorite era of warfare in RI, and why?
One of the great strengths of this mod, in my view, is the way that the historically significant strategic and tactical aspects of each era of warfare are so compellingly represented through the mechanics of the vanilla game, which overtly blend both. Moreso than in the base game, for instance, a dearth of actual, manufactured hard steel is a death sentence in the industrial, fueling colonial ambitions and the quest for iron and coal while this is anticipated; while likewise, acquiring early axemen via an idyllic source of copper in the early game may easily win you a prime foreign capital location, but also offers a siren song of overextension in lieu of one, where mature institutions of governance are nonexistent. Throughout each time period, it simply "feels" very much like the history it echoes, in my experience playing this mod for a handful of years now. For that alone, all of them are interesting I find, but from that vantage blended with the actual gameplay experience, I feel that I can rank the ones that stand out to me:
Extremely Fun:
- The beginning of the modern era/end of the industrial era, i.e., approximately the latter half of World War 2 and the opening phase of the historical Cold War. For some reason (and I suspect this may be more subjective than not), this is such an exciting part of the game for me. In sheerly mechanical terms, several more layers of warfare are broached which didn't previously exist (and in RI are given greater significance) such as the intercept/evade chances which weren't a thing at all in vanilla BtS, and the scope of one's navy and air force in that context as a backdrop of any military power projection in lieu of them, paratroopers, guided missiles, your power grid, and all of the strategic implications surrounding nuclear weapons, as well as the arms race towards acquiring them. This, I feel, really makes
start to feel comparably important to 
, as military technology reaches a game-winnable maturity, and stealing that or interrupting home-stretch projects like spaceship parts becomes an increasingly attractive alternative. There's also just something about the "this is it" feel of the period, and how much can happen in such a short time, which I think crowns this era as the most exciting period of warfare in the game for me.
Notably Exciting:
- The late medieval and the beginning of the renaissance. Here, you have a fascinating blend of both the maturity of high
melee, and the experimental phase of what will eventually obsolete it, but is as-yet only situationally its better; the beginning of ranged attacks with bombards and the first ocean-going ships. I am biased since this is one of my favorite periods of actual history, so its compelling representation in the game is inherently more fun to me for that. The previous earlier medieval era, as well, is a lot more static militarily with castles and longbows making cities sturdy strongholds and heavy cavalry ill-suited against them but dominant in the field against invaders, which the arrival of bombards swings majorly in favor of the offensive once again unto viability, but not clearly to the point of outright unseating a strong defender. I love the sense of dynamism and the upheaval it invites! 
More than any other era, this one feels especially eclectic with the roles and unit types involved; all in their way effective, but nuanced, and I also feel that this is a time period where the most civs' individual flavors shine most brightly, both in strategic and aesthetic terms.
Consistently Piques Interest:
- The ancient era. This one benefits from the most playtesting and feedback, being at the very start, and I find its balance fascinating and satisfying. This is also, essentially, the primary era in which your adversary is "The Barbs" - and the war against them can be gruesome, and certainly has its own unique flavor. This era also benefits the most, I think, from a perceived reward from improvement, since your first "strong" unit simply boasts of not being almost worthless, such that when you do get units requiring strategic resources, they feel very potent and influential against your still neolithic opponents, in a way which is less immediately visible later on. The feeling of making do with the extremely primitive against the largest opportunity costs has a unique appeal.
Feels Kind of Standard:
- The late classical, early and high medieval eras. While this era (as they all are) is fun, it feels the most "sticky" and unnuanced, where most units have a very long shelf-life with glacial depreciation from their debut to their true obsolescence. (For instance, a cataphract is indeed quite powerful at around historical 1AD, but it also remains sturdy and viable up through the early renaissance, especially if promoted through success during this whole swathe of time.) With the late medieval, most of these units are finally outclassed categorically, but only after several hundred turns of feeling almost interchangeably effective with little sensitivity to new technology. Also, the arrival of often quite decent irregulars at the same time that
becomes much more abundant means that even strategic resources have a somewhat stilted bearing on military viability. Admittedly, military technology was more or less static for a long stretch of time during this era, but it doesn't make for particularly exciting gameplay, at least compared to the other eras' unique trends.
(On Land) Feels Like a One-Trick Horse, Almost:
- Preindustrial "Enlightenment" Renaissance, since line and light infantry are basically trump cards over everything preceding them and on par with themselves, and also face pretty steep obstacles to their own upgrades in the maturity of industrialization, the combat of this era feels rather binary and "sticky": either one has the "winning" flintlock infantry units and then warfare becomes an economic question of
capacity, or they don't and they will be absolutely annihilated by the adversary that does. The naval question is more interesting, as this is when the Age of Sail reaches an effervescence which its debut into ocean-going technology only hinted at, but on land, the "rock, paper, scissors" of Civ IV's combat mechanics dissolves for the most part when everyone is fighting with the same weapons. A possible exception could be named with the cavalry, which as more of an interesting progression during this time period (with pistoleers yielding to both cuirassiers and hussars), but in both cases, for purposes of conquest cavalry isn't the primary arm anyway. With artillery, bombards become cannons in this era, which isn't insignificant, but I don't feel that it even remotely tips the scale in the field between the dominance of line infantry over earlier units, and in siege, only means a couple of turns' difference in defense reduction.
Quick little opinion essay, which may or may not spark discussion:
What is your favorite era of warfare in RI, and why?
One of the great strengths of this mod, in my view, is the way that the historically significant strategic and tactical aspects of each era of warfare are so compellingly represented through the mechanics of the vanilla game, which overtly blend both. Moreso than in the base game, for instance, a dearth of actual, manufactured hard steel is a death sentence in the industrial, fueling colonial ambitions and the quest for iron and coal while this is anticipated; while likewise, acquiring early axemen via an idyllic source of copper in the early game may easily win you a prime foreign capital location, but also offers a siren song of overextension in lieu of one, where mature institutions of governance are nonexistent. Throughout each time period, it simply "feels" very much like the history it echoes, in my experience playing this mod for a handful of years now. For that alone, all of them are interesting I find, but from that vantage blended with the actual gameplay experience, I feel that I can rank the ones that stand out to me:
Extremely Fun:
- The beginning of the modern era/end of the industrial era, i.e., approximately the latter half of World War 2 and the opening phase of the historical Cold War. For some reason (and I suspect this may be more subjective than not), this is such an exciting part of the game for me. In sheerly mechanical terms, several more layers of warfare are broached which didn't previously exist (and in RI are given greater significance) such as the intercept/evade chances which weren't a thing at all in vanilla BtS, and the scope of one's navy and air force in that context as a backdrop of any military power projection in lieu of them, paratroopers, guided missiles, your power grid, and all of the strategic implications surrounding nuclear weapons, as well as the arms race towards acquiring them. This, I feel, really makes
start to feel comparably important to , as military technology reaches a game-winnable maturity, and stealing that or interrupting home-stretch projects like spaceship parts becomes an increasingly attractive alternative. There's also just something about the "this is it" feel of the period, and how much can happen in such a short time, which I think crowns this era as the most exciting period of warfare in the game for me.Notably Exciting:
- The late medieval and the beginning of the renaissance. Here, you have a fascinating blend of both the maturity of high
melee, and the experimental phase of what will eventually obsolete it, but is as-yet only situationally its better; the beginning of ranged attacks with bombards and the first ocean-going ships. I am biased since this is one of my favorite periods of actual history, so its compelling representation in the game is inherently more fun to me for that. The previous earlier medieval era, as well, is a lot more static militarily with castles and longbows making cities sturdy strongholds and heavy cavalry ill-suited against them but dominant in the field against invaders, which the arrival of bombards swings majorly in favor of the offensive once again unto viability, but not clearly to the point of outright unseating a strong defender. I love the sense of dynamism and the upheaval it invites! More than any other era, this one feels especially eclectic with the roles and unit types involved; all in their way effective, but nuanced, and I also feel that this is a time period where the most civs' individual flavors shine most brightly, both in strategic and aesthetic terms.Consistently Piques Interest:
- The ancient era. This one benefits from the most playtesting and feedback, being at the very start, and I find its balance fascinating and satisfying. This is also, essentially, the primary era in which your adversary is "The Barbs" - and the war against them can be gruesome, and certainly has its own unique flavor. This era also benefits the most, I think, from a perceived reward from improvement, since your first "strong" unit simply boasts of not being almost worthless, such that when you do get units requiring strategic resources, they feel very potent and influential against your still neolithic opponents, in a way which is less immediately visible later on. The feeling of making do with the extremely primitive against the largest opportunity costs has a unique appeal.
Feels Kind of Standard:
- The late classical, early and high medieval eras. While this era (as they all are) is fun, it feels the most "sticky" and unnuanced, where most units have a very long shelf-life with glacial depreciation from their debut to their true obsolescence. (For instance, a cataphract is indeed quite powerful at around historical 1AD, but it also remains sturdy and viable up through the early renaissance, especially if promoted through success during this whole swathe of time.) With the late medieval, most of these units are finally outclassed categorically, but only after several hundred turns of feeling almost interchangeably effective with little sensitivity to new technology. Also, the arrival of often quite decent irregulars at the same time that
becomes much more abundant means that even strategic resources have a somewhat stilted bearing on military viability. Admittedly, military technology was more or less static for a long stretch of time during this era, but it doesn't make for particularly exciting gameplay, at least compared to the other eras' unique trends.(On Land) Feels Like a One-Trick Horse, Almost:
- Preindustrial "Enlightenment" Renaissance, since line and light infantry are basically trump cards over everything preceding them and on par with themselves, and also face pretty steep obstacles to their own upgrades in the maturity of industrialization, the combat of this era feels rather binary and "sticky": either one has the "winning" flintlock infantry units and then warfare becomes an economic question of
capacity, or they don't and they will be absolutely annihilated by the adversary that does. The naval question is more interesting, as this is when the Age of Sail reaches an effervescence which its debut into ocean-going technology only hinted at, but on land, the "rock, paper, scissors" of Civ IV's combat mechanics dissolves for the most part when everyone is fighting with the same weapons. A possible exception could be named with the cavalry, which as more of an interesting progression during this time period (with pistoleers yielding to both cuirassiers and hussars), but in both cases, for purposes of conquest cavalry isn't the primary arm anyway. With artillery, bombards become cannons in this era, which isn't insignificant, but I don't feel that it even remotely tips the scale in the field between the dominance of line infantry over earlier units, and in siege, only means a couple of turns' difference in defense reduction.
TheBirdMan
King
Playing I guessWhere'd everyone go?
. Maybe except me - I'm in the process of "fine-tuning" my Spin-Off based on RI ver. 3.72. I think I'll have most of the details in place by tomorrow.
Jaded1
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2020
- Messages
- 59
I understand we can't make squares deal damage based on the terrain type because of the AI. But in the "We the People" Colonization Mod they added weather events. The main ones being Storms, Fog, Blizzards and Sand Storms. They form on Ocean, Coast, Ice and Desert Squares and deal 25% damage per turn in the same way as the Reef does, except the Fog that just blocks visibility. Each turn there is a tiny chance one will form on each of those types of squares. This adds some terrain realism without having to write a whole new AI.
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
Civ4Col mods have some of the most competent coding I've seen in Civ4 modding community. The lovely assumption of "without having to write a whole new AI" is nice, but a quick search through WtP source code for "Damage on Storm plots" specifically yields 14 hits in different places of the code. They'd never do what you assumed they did - just dropping in a feature with AI oblivious of it.
tebriz
Warlord
I came back to play this mod after a pause of a more than a year. I would like to say a huge thanks for all creators of the mod and I am so excited to see that so many improvements, tweaks and fixes have been made during the last year! 
Recently I played a game with BarbarianRev option on (Revolutions option was off) and I noticed a strange behavior that I haven’t experienced before - new spawn civilizations may be the same that are already in game. For example, I have seen Inca and Hungary civilizations spawn from barbarians, even if there were the same civilizations (but under other leaders) at another corner of the map.
And one more question - is Revolution option playable now? Or it is still recommended to play with this option off?
Recently I played a game with BarbarianRev option on (Revolutions option was off) and I noticed a strange behavior that I haven’t experienced before - new spawn civilizations may be the same that are already in game. For example, I have seen Inca and Hungary civilizations spawn from barbarians, even if there were the same civilizations (but under other leaders) at another corner of the map.
And one more question - is Revolution option playable now? Or it is still recommended to play with this option off?
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Changes were made on how the Revolution works only a week or so ago. Hard to already gives you a solid answer : previously it was "better keep it off" and now we are... in testing time, I guess ?
Feels free to play a game with it and, if you do so, don't forget to give your feedback on how it went
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
I mean, it was playable even before, or I'd outright disable it in the release version. It's still not to my liking, but it has more to do with it feeling a chore to play with - another thing to keep track of - and that's unlikely to ever change. I poured a lot of work into it only to realize it wasn't at all what I wanted to have in the first place. It happens sometimes.
trashmunster
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2024
- Messages
- 105
Kinda offtopic, but I've noticed how much you enjoy tweaking and fine-tuning RI to your liking. You really should try a game called Rimworld, its very complex and multi-layered with lots of mechanics, and basically it has insane amount of small mods (thousands) that you can add together in any combination and afterwards tweak them in xml. (various stats parameters and balance stuff). Give it a go, maybe you'll find the experience refreshing.Playing I guess
in "A new Dawn" you have penalty 25% dmg / unit for end turn on the desert or tundra
i like too personally idea that you cannot build any type of roads on pure desert or jungle tile
why aren't highways being built in deserts?
Chatgpt:
Extreme weather conditions - High temperatures can cause the asphalt to expand and crack, and cold nights lead to pavement shrinkage. This can accelerate road degradation.
Sandstorms - Sand can cover roads, reducing visibility and causing dangerous conditions for drivers.
Lack of infrastructure - Deserts are sparsely populated, so there is little need for highways. Building and maintaining a road in such a location is often not cost-effective.
Subsoil problems - Some deserts have loose or clayey soil, which makes it difficult to build a stable road surface.
Costs and logistics - Building a road through a desert requires transporting large amounts of construction materials over long distances, which significantly increases costs.
Despite these difficulties, highways in deserts do exist - for example, in Saudi Arabia, the US (e.g., I-10 through the Sonora desert) or Australia. However, their construction requires special technologies, such as the use of concrete instead of asphalt or storm barriers.
In other words, it is technically possible to build roads through jungles or deserts, but it is extremely time-consuming and very expensive
TheBirdMan
King
Reason? Well I guess it's the same line for the Feature_Fallout, that make it dangerous to move unit to tiles, still "infected" by nuclear radiation.
Spoiler Feature Fallout :
I haven't used it anywhere in my spinn-off, but please make a try - it's both easy and fast to do - and write back if it works as you want it to.
Edit: Forget it. All above is for Features only - not terrain......
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Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
Had a nervous chuckle after reading this, as some of my Rimworld mods definitely need updating (a couple of them are much more popular than RI these days, comparing the number of RI downloads in the recent years to their Steam subscription numbers). But yeah, that game is the most mod-friendly thing I ran across since Civ 4, and basically built with mods in mind.
I mean, again, this isn't some kind of "gotcha". I never claimed it can't be done - it very much can. It would just require the amount of effort I don't want to expend. My time and willingness to spend it on RI are both finite, and I'd rather spend it on other stuff. Specifically on reefs though, I already had to make barbarians immune to them, and generally nerf them a lot, otherwise there were some very stupid results - and they still could use some additional improvement AI-wise.
More generally speaking, there is very little that outright can't be done in Civ 4 - but everything has opportunity costs. Fortunately, this is my hobby project and I am free to choose how I spend my time working on it (and if I spend any at all - currently I'm taking a break, for instance, I haven't done anything since the last SVN revision). So more often than not, pointing out how to do something isn't going to convince me one bit - I have likely already considered the amount of effort it'd take to get it properly implemented in RI, and unless I am very mistaken about it (which only happened a couple of times, and basically concerned very well-written and annotated bits of other people's code that I could lift wholesale and transplant to RI), this means that I know I can do it, and I know I don't want to.
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trashmunster
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2024
- Messages
- 105
Well, Rimworld is still very popular with lots of dedicated youtubers and communities. So it's no surprise some of its mods are more popular than RI (mod for civ4). Still RI is ultimate civ4 experience and quite possibly most balanced civlike game still. I do like vox populi but tbh it gets repetitive faster and you don't feel as much freedom as in RI.
Speaking of rimworld witth modlist of 277 separate mods I didn't bother to update to 1.5 and get anomaly, instead focused on tweaking and creating my own pirate mod with shamelessly stolen assets.
Funny thing though when playing rimworld its still a civilization for me. Leading tribe of wild men through ages up to ultratech stuff and developing unique cultures.
I'd say Faction Customizer and Empire mod (not Vanilla Expanded Empires although that is a must have too for content and quests) add a lot of civ element to Rim. Hell you can can create custom armies for your faction and fine-tune your soldiers equipment. Lots of fun.
Gotta get around and play new version of RI this year, read only good things about it here after initial bugs were ironed out.
you can do it simply by creating events that activate randomly, you can choose the activation percentage, limited to either the desert or the jungle, or whatever terrain you prefer, it's very simple to do, there are guides on the forum.
I think it's the best and easiest way for A.I. to manage.
consider that on R.I. this penalty already exists, but it is intended as a defense bonus and attack or movement bonus, for example if you are in swamp you have a much higher penalty if attacked, than simple damage per turn
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Which mods are yours? I'm curious if I've used any of them.
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
My 500+ modlist that loads without red errors on 1.5 laughs at that puny list!
I did turn Anomaly off recently though, as I realized I'm not motivated to interact with its content. Generally speaking, I can see how Ludeon shot itself in the foot by creating a very mod-friendly game. Major mods provide more content than a Rimworld DLC does, and do so free of charge - kind of breaks the DLC economics. I am really grateful for providing the community the platform that they did, but several years on, I can see how they'll likely struggle to sell any more paid content at this point. Which is also probably why post-Civ IV games in Civilization series are less mod-friendly than IV - Civ V happened around the time where developers switched from a couple of expansion packs at most during the lifecycle of the game to dlc-driven revenue streams (that said, I suspect the mod-friendliness of Civ IV was largely accidental and stems in a major part from a third-party engine with lots of available external tools).I treat it more like Stardew Valley with guns. I grow my cabbages in peace and everyone disturbing said peace gets shot in the head.
Oh no no, I am absolutely not telling. But a good chance you have, as the most popular one I have in 1.5 has more subscribers than some of Vanilla Expanded series (around 100k).
Absolutely agree. I never bought any of their add ons and never really saw the point. The add-ons tend to focus on some extremely niche aspect of flavor, and ones that I often felt contrasted with the "crash survivors on desolate planet" vibe. It also frustrated me that they brought in solutions to the terrible combat (eg the psy stuff from royalty) but didn't make any of that available in the base game.
Oh, alright. Good call too, so we don't come here to harass you if they drop a 1.6 and we want the mods updated.
Deder
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2019
- Messages
- 48
I recommend small addon to python code in revolutions in the doRevolution
adding "else" will cause something when one player takes another city from other, also I recommend to increase proportion of power for instant limited war from 1.2 to 1.8 - there are too many unwanted for AI wars and also AI is completly unprepared for it so I have noticed thay it is an easy way to fast crush unprotected side of leader, and also player get no diplomacy penaulty for war.
Code:
if not pOldPlayer.isHuman():
if pOldPlayer.getPower() > pPlayer.getPower() * 1.8:
gc.getTeam(pOldPlayer.getTeam()).declareWar(pPlayer.getTeam(), false, WarPlanTypes.WARPLAN_LIMITED) ## If AI is reasonably sure it can conquer the rebel cities back, it will declare war
else:
pOldPlayer.AI_changeMemoryCount(iNewPlayer, gc.getInfoTypeForString("MEMORY_EVENT_BAD_TO_US"), 3)adding "else" will cause something when one player takes another city from other, also I recommend to increase proportion of power for instant limited war from 1.2 to 1.8 - there are too many unwanted for AI wars and also AI is completly unprepared for it so I have noticed thay it is an easy way to fast crush unprotected side of leader, and also player get no diplomacy penaulty for war.
doctoraristotelicus
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2024
- Messages
- 10
I basically agree with everything you said. When I started playing Civ IV back in the day my main interest was in Ancient and Classical Eras, since they were the periods in History that interested me the most. Now, after having come back to the game and found this amazing mod, I have to say the Modern Era has won me over, especially in regards to war. I find the sheer complexity of it so intriguing and fascinating that now when I'm starting a new game I'm usually in a hurry to get to the modern era, whereas previously I'd usually lose interest mid-game. I think however that that binary aspect you mentioned in regards to line infantry can happen near the modern era when it comes to Air Superiority and how overwhelmingly decisive it can be when your opponents don't have it, at least in my recent experience.
