Realism Invictus

think this is not the best idea, because the name Realism Invictus is so established at this point. Whether that's this forum, with this massive thread, the mod's own subforum or mod mentions in countless other threads, or also outside, in youtube videos and comments or discussions on other websites like reddit. "Realism Invictus" really is one of the most well known Civ4 mods and known for its great quality. And even if you think the "realism" part might cause wrong expectations, I think it actually frankly still is the most "realistic" mod of all Civ4 mods. If you want to move from the name a bit, I would do it via a subtitle, such as "Realism Invictus: Title", but the recognition and credit the original name has are just too much to give away.
I'm not selling a product so things like "brand recognition" are rather pointless to me. OTOH, I find it very convenient when I can tell at a glance which RI version a person is using (when I, say, come across a video) - so I deliberately change the main menu and/or main interface every major version. This is the logical extension of the same approach.
Currently I'm trying to stay at logistic 1 for my attacking stack, but I'm pretty sure you can go higher without suffering too much about it.
And that's only on the offense : while defending, a bigger stack is obviously even better by adding the fact that the ennemy has to circle through all your units (usually) before having a fair chance of killing them on round 2. The bigger the stack, the more "HP" your army has.

(Don't get me wrong Walter, your system is still CENTURIES ahead the vanilla game and I like it a lot. I don't recommand to nerf the logistic either : making the logistic penalty hit harder would means being unable to siege some city with few tiles to place your armies around, for exemple).
I would be much more comfortable with more radical penalties if there was a meaningful way to make AI play nice with logistics. Unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier, it's virtually impossible - so any system that is more punishing on big stacks is necessarily pro-player and anti-AI.
 
It's only in Denmark and Norway we have all 3 letters Æ, Ø and Å as completely "independent" letters. æ/Æ can be written with ALT + 145/146 if needed.

I see more and more keyboard being sold without the numpad nowadays. I don't think they have a purpose for the general public, it's only really useful in a professionnal settings for the time gained (or while doing specific hobby like writing where you may need those kind of code often).

I think that for balance, it's better to give foot knights (9) at least a +10% bonus to capturing a city, so that they are not weaker than man-at-arms (8) in this regard.

Being better at attacking city is the purpose of man-at-arms. If a foot knight is better than them for doing so, and also better than them in any other setting, then you have no need for them anymore.
They are latter in the tech tree, so it can be a valid justification, but if you play with the option that makes each new unit a bit more costly to build than the previous one, then I find that having reason to diversify your army is a great thing.
Otherwise you will end up with foot knight cost being 300% higher or something like that.

OTOH, I find it very convenient when I can tell at a glance which RI version a person is using (when I, say, come across a video) - so I deliberately change the main menu and/or main interface every major version. This is the logical extension of the same approach.

That's sneaky. I like it !

I would be much more comfortable with more radical penalties if there was a meaningful way to make AI play nice with logistics. Unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier, it's virtually impossible - so any system that is more punishing on big stacks is necessarily pro-player and anti-AI.

Yeah, as I said, I'm not critizising. So far in my game, AI uses bigger stack but they never went so big that they hit the max logistic penalty, just the first few tiers of it.
And given the stackaid bonus and how combat works, it seems to be a smart move.

I will have to wait a few hundreds more turns and see if AI still play the same when it has access to many more units (thanks to the better income of trade/banks in Renaissance), to see if the doomstack are back on the map or not.
 
I see more and more keyboard being sold without the numpad nowadays.
:hmm: I'm not sure what I would think of people if I saw one - deliberately - buy a keyboard without numpad:nono:.

But of course:think:........ I was born in an era where you was supposed to be able to spell and do the math yourself. In fact, we had both ink-math and writing with ink for the first many years I went to elementary school:ack: - before using a ballpoint pen was allowed:groucho:.
 
And now a bit more serious.

R:I has become much more stable over the past few years. Right now after 918 turns I have 14 active nations (2 new due to separatism) with a total of 232 cities in my game. That's probably a record for me - or at least very close to. Besides the individual turns are still completed quite fast.

There is only one recurring error left (which may be due to lack of capacity on my 'puter) and that is in connection with a peace treaty, where - sometimes - the game locks/ends because it can't figure out how to move ships out of a previously "hostile" area. But I have "learned" how to fix it via the WorldBuilder/diplomacy menu, so it isn't a serious problem.

Spoiler sceenshots :

Civ4ScreenShot0084.JPG

Civ4ScreenShot0085.JPG

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Well, next release version will probably be 4.0 - it's the 20th anniversary this year, and I was thinking about a bit of rebranding in conjunction with the anniversary edition. I wanted to ditch the "Realism" in the name for almost as long as it has been there, both for giving people skewed expectations of what the mod is really about, and due to the awful Latin/English mix in the name. I'm thinking of a fully Latin name for the anniversary edition instead; my current lead candidate is "Invictus: Iter Æternum" (with the added bonus of a cool ligature).
If I may, the phrase "Historia est vitae magistra" is not wrong but it sounds very bad to someone who has studied Latin. In that language the right words sequence should be "Historia vitae magistra est".
 
OTOH, I find it very convenient when I can tell at a glance which RI version a person is using (when I, say, come across a video) - so I deliberately change the main menu and/or main interface every major version.
On that note, what about having each installer name the install folder accordingly, i.e. instead of just "Realism Invictus", have it be "Realism Invictus 3.7"? This would also help with the issue of supplying unpacked files to address the MAF errors without having to worry about leftover files in an installation when installing a later version. (As you pointed out being an issue in this thread: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/memory-allocation-crashes.694013/) Being able to play without the memory limit putting a hard end on larger games would be a huge benefit to virtually the entire playerbase.

I'm not selling a product so things like "brand recognition" are rather pointless to me. [...] This is the logical extension of the same approach.
I am not claiming that you are :D But this mod has been a staple of Civ4 mods, and is consistently one of my top 2 mods that I recommend to people to check out (the other one being FfH2 + MNAI, something so entirely different you can't rank the two against another), so I think it's a big legacy to pass up on.
 
(and you will be glad to know that there are at least two more wonders and one more mechanic lined up for implementation that are vastly more beneficial to smaller empires).
Nice! The noble families for aristocracy is pretty cool. For me, as Egypt in Triassic, I had to stick with plutocracy in order to maintain my budget, so I was always wary of any other nations that would adopt Aristocracy. I think this new mechanic could be a good counter to any sprawling civs like mine that formed during the classical era. I always viewed the aristocracy civic when you need a military edge but you can't outproduce your rivial. Looking forward to it in the next release!
It's not a big deal, I will probably just delete them and rebuild new one (except for the one that are with a Great General : I will probably cheat my ways to upgrade them in the editor, as I would hate to loose all the yummy promotion they have earned since they were humble Sherdens Gards :love:)
A fellow Egyptian player 😎 I recommend try out Egypt in the Triassic world. Very rewarding to unite the flood plains of the desert. You can check out how I went about it here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/realism-invictus.411799/post-16833148

Admittingly, I was a little lucky in the beginning, so it would be curious to see if others could replicate it 😉
The Roman Empire essentially "delegated itself out of existence" - it was exactly its decentralised nature and reliance on provinces that ultimately spelt its demise.
Been meaning to reply to this historical discussion, as Rome is a big interest of mine since Rome Total War 1 days.

The decentralized nature and reliance on provinces made the Roman Empire an empire, it couldn't have done so otherwise (at least to the size it became). As you mentioned, it incorporated highly developed regions. It wouldn't have been able to hold all of those if it was centralized from the beginning. Now, the decentralization and reliance on the provinces most certainly became the ISSUE of the 3rd century crisis which would affect Rome's economic health long term. There were regions that did not recover from that by the time of the later German invasions. Ironically, it was Diocletian's bureaucratic reforms that the 3rd century crisis ended by doing away with what allowed Rome to conquer so much in the first place. He divided up the provinces into very small administrative centers and transformed the economy from "free market" to a command economy. In Civ IV terms, he switched civics. I say ironic, b/c the Empire became more centralized under Diocletian, these smaller adminstratice centers answered to the demands of Roman Emperor directly, no longer having governors get in the way. This would later prove to be doubly ironic as these smaller administrative centers would later lead to decentralization and to the foundations of feudalism which is decentralization to the max.

So, while the 3rd Century crisis did hurt Rome deeply, it is still centuries away from the actual fall of Rome. I think we would have to travel closer to the collapse of Rome, to find the ultimate cause of Rome's fall. I believe it was that Rome no longer practiced its long system of assimilation. Roman leadership at critical points were unwilling to assimilate the Germans properly, most notably, Roman emperors treating Alaric and the Visigoths horribly. The Visigoths were refugees, but they wanted to be part of Rome and Rome said "Sure....lol."- (This in reference to Visigoths being given very poor land and being used as common fodder in the Eastern Roman Empire). Later on, it became "No." (This is in reference to the Western Roman emperor refusing very favorable peace treaty terms with Alaric who just wanted to be a military governor on the border and willing to defend Rome against other tribes and just receive food as payment. The senate wanted to accept it but the Emperor was persuaded by a "racist" to reject the offer and then Rome gets sacked).

To be fair, relying on foederati may be viewed as a form of extreme decentralization, but I think the greater issue was that foederati only became a handicap b/c elements of Roman leadership failed to assimilate the German refugees who for the most part wanted to be part of Rome.

I have a couple theories why this happened:
-Rome has been fighting the Germans for centuries, so I can see why the "Purists" (racists) wanted Rome to remain pure from German blood (nvm that Roman was a multiethnic empire). "Dirty barbarians, they have been our eternal enemies! Remember Teutoburg!"

-Rome always (as far as I know) assimilated people through conquests of territory. They never really had to assimilate tribes seeking refugee onto preexisting Roman territory.

-Good fashion palace intrigues. There was competition b/w "pure" Romans vs half Romans/half German elite. Nvm being a "pure" Roman is an oxymoron (multiethnic empire being pure is truly laughable).

-Rome for a time was an idea. Anyone could be a Roman. By the end, Romans gave up on the idea of Rome and replaced it with a narrow view of what it meant to be Roman. The price is indeed terrible when a country rejects its ideals and foundations

The inflexibility in adapting their assimilation ultimately led Western Rome to fall, most notably the failure to assimilate the Visigoths. Assimilating the Visigoths alone may have been enough to stave off collapse. I often viewed that Western Rome fell b/c of just one too many tribes to fight (the Vandals being a clear case in this, delivering the death blow to the empire). Rome would later use the Visigoths to fight the Vandals, but it was too late and they were NOT assimilated, they were just hired muscles foedarati). Rome had an opportunity to assimilate the Visigoths as Romans. Sadness.

I firmly believe that the Germans were always going to be "the future" of the Roman lands when the Visigoths arrived. Rome had the choice to either accept that (assimilate the Germans) or reject it (keep them at arms length as foederati). Rome rejected destiny and destiny destroyed Rome.

-Why do I believe this? Simple fact that there were way too many German refugees coming in. They had strong demographics and a warrior culture. There was no exterminating them. Keep in mind, I am looking at the time period when the Visogoths first arrived or maybe shortly before that. This destiny was by no means set in stone but by the time the Visigoths came, this course was set.

-This is a cautionary tale to all nations who reject destiny.


My apologies in advance on my lecture on Rome, but I just LOVE ROME SO MUCH. ROMA INVICTA!!! Cue the Rome 1 Total War ost.

-
 
But which version is the best (just in case).......

Rome.jpg
 
I was pretty disappointed by Rome II, but I tested it when it was brand new and it's a game from the new era of video gaming aka "release it half-baked and wait for update".
No idea how good it is now.

I didn't tried the remaster, but the "re-release" of the base game was fine when I played it (except for the greek DLC that was awful, cities siege was broken and buggy as hell I had to auto-resolve almost every battle that occurend in a city...).


A fellow Egyptian player 😎 I recommend try out Egypt in the Triassic world. Very rewarding to unite the flood plains of the desert. You can check out how I went about it here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/realism-invictus.411799/post-16833148

Admittingly, I was a little lucky in the beginning, so it would be curious to see if others could replicate it 😉

Sounds fun, but after so many years of playing Egyptian on the Huge World Map, I'm more tempted by going with a random map / random civ.
A shame that each game take me so long (between small playtime and so many things to check each turn ^^) as I will probably not try another new game this year (I started my current one in March or April, I think, and I'm only at 1300 AD...)

Perhaps next year, for 4.0 :lol:
 
Concept is nice, but maybe it's a bit too much for my taste
THIS
C2C have/ had a big problem - they want to be everything and put literally every idea into mod (at least version 42.0)
great wonders who work 50 turns, "bandits" penalty, making nations with unique buildings and units based on local resources, transhuman era, space travel era
all of this make game unbalanced as hell
By the way, scientists may build an academy too early.
Fell same here academy should be avaiable to build earliest in medival era and maybe unique academy building for greeks (avaiable to build in ancient era)
anyway i dont have how it work on far east - did taoism have academies in ancient?
 
That's sneaky. I like it !
When people point out bugs and issues, half of the time they're not using the up-to-date version. So I have to somehow prevent myself from wasting time on issues that are no longer there.
:hmm: I'm not sure what I would think of people if I saw one - deliberately - buy a keyboard without numpad:nono:.
I feel that's our age showing when I instinctively agree with you on that one - even if right afterwards I realize that it's been a while I pressed anything on my numpad... :lol:
There is only one recurring error left (which may be due to lack of capacity on my 'puter) and that is in connection with a peace treaty, where - sometimes - the game locks/ends because it can't figure out how to move ships out of a previously "hostile" area. But I have "learned" how to fix it via the WorldBuilder/diplomacy menu, so it isn't a serious problem.
I can't say for sure if that one was already fixed in the current version or not and unfortunately you can't even provide a test case, as there is no way I'd be able to run your saves on my side...
If I may, the phrase "Historia est vitae magistra" is not wrong but it sounds very bad to someone who has studied Latin. In that language the right words sequence should be "Historia vitae magistra est".
In all honesty, "est" is simply superfluous there, especially since it's not there in the original quote. But I agree, now that you point that out, if it is to stay, it should be at the end.
On that note, what about having each installer name the install folder accordingly, i.e. instead of just "Realism Invictus", have it be "Realism Invictus 3.7"? This would also help with the issue of supplying unpacked files to address the MAF errors without having to worry about leftover files in an installation when installing a later version. (As you pointed out being an issue in this thread: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/memory-allocation-crashes.694013/) Being able to play without the memory limit putting a hard end on larger games would be a huge benefit to virtually the entire playerbase.
I'm not a big fan of messing with the installer script more than absolutely necessary to build a new installer (wasn't me who created it in the first place, and I usually just update the icons and version numbers), but when next the time is right for that, I'll see what I can do as the idea is reasonable.
I am not claiming that you are :D But this mod has been a staple of Civ4 mods, and is consistently one of my top 2 mods that I recommend to people to check out (the other one being FfH2 + MNAI, something so entirely different you can't rank the two against another), so I think it's a big legacy to pass up on.
I am reasonably sure that the name change will not lead to the "loss of legacy". Searching for "Realism Invictus" will likely still lead people to the right place if I signpost everything correctly (explicitly mentioning the older name in the thread etc). Obviously, I am not dismissing your concerns as invalid, and it's something I also weighed in when considering, but I also feel it's the right time to do so. The new name may actually even create a splash of popularity, as it's likely that this will draw more attention than "a mod releases 3.7 version".
Now, the decentralization and reliance on the provinces most certainly became the ISSUE of the 3rd century crisis which would affect Rome's economic health long term. There were regions that did not recover from that by the time of the later German invasions. Ironically, it was Diocletian's bureaucratic reforms that the 3rd century crisis ended by doing away with what allowed Rome to conquer so much in the first place. He divided up the provinces into very small administrative centers and transformed the economy from "free market" to a command economy. In Civ IV terms, he switched civics. I say ironic, b/c the Empire became more centralized under Diocletian, these smaller adminstratice centers answered to the demands of Roman Emperor directly, no longer having governors get in the way. This would later prove to be doubly ironic as these smaller administrative centers would later lead to decentralization and to the foundations of feudalism which is decentralization to the max.
Never claimed otherwise - I mentioned the Third Century Crisis as a counterpoint to a rather ridiculous claim that Rome was somehow more immune to internal disorder than Han China. I am not sure there was no existential threat to the empire as an entity though, as it took two exceptional individuals (Aurelian + Diocletian) to end the Crisis.
To be fair, relying on foederati may be viewed as a form of extreme decentralization, but I think the greater issue was that foederati only became a handicap b/c elements of Roman leadership failed to assimilate the German refugees who for the most part wanted to be part of Rome.

I have a couple theories why this happened:
-Rome has been fighting the Germans for centuries, so I can see why the "Purists" (racists) wanted Rome to remain pure from German blood (nvm that Roman was a multiethnic empire). "Dirty barbarians, they have been our eternal enemies! Remember Teutoburg!"

-Rome always (as far as I know) assimilated people through conquests of territory. They never really had to assimilate tribes seeking refugee onto preexisting Roman territory.

-Good fashion palace intrigues. There was competition b/w "pure" Romans vs half Romans/half German elite. Nvm being a "pure" Roman is an oxymoron (multiethnic empire being pure is truly laughable).

-Rome for a time was an idea. Anyone could be a Roman. By the end, Romans gave up on the idea of Rome and replaced it with a narrow view of what it meant to be Roman. The price is indeed terrible when a country rejects its ideals and foundations
I feel that's an oversimplification / too modern take on things. The amount of bigotry towards "barbarians" was roughly constant throughout the entire Roman timeline, and that was one of the major drivers for the latinisation of the population - people in the provinces who wanted to advance in life had to take up Latin (or Greek in the East) cultural mannerisms. The problem with this approach, obviously, is that it cannot rapidly accommodate rapid change in social makeup. So it did indeed create a lot of internal tension with integrating a large number of new peoples, but even then, examples like Stilicho don't actually allow us to properly gauge how much of the rejection was driven by bigotry - and how much in his case by being objectively bad at what he did. If anything, his example is a hallmark of how high someone with Germanic origins could reach in the West despite their origins.

Fortunately, in the case of Rome, we have an almost ideal experimental setup with the Western and the Eastern halves. Both empires experienced a rapid influx of "barbarians" into their territories during the Migration Era (mostly Germanic in the West, mostly Slavic in the East), and we can see that given time and stability, the Eastern half has "digested" their influx, at least for the time being. As an aside for those who'd like to point out that the scale of influx was different, 8th-9th century Greece proper was largely Slavic by makeup:

1751190027698.png

Yet, with time, those Slavs that were in the territories under continuous ERE control (unlike the ones that were parts of the Bulgarian empire for a long while) were almost entirely assimilated over the next few centuries. Same would have happened - and was happening - with the Germanic tribes in the West, were the situation more stable. The empire was in such a decentralised state that the "fall of Rome" as we now see it in historiography wasn't really registered as such at the time. Some former provinces continued as before, considering the lack of Western Emperors as a purely temporary thing (the kingdom of Soissons being an extreme example that lasted until being absorbed by the Merovingians), and the "new management" in Rome - the Langobards - considered themselves a development of Roman administration, rather than a replacement thereof - which was true to a major extent, as the Lombard "invaders" took a mere century to harmonise with the local Roman population in terms of language, religion (while lots of them were Christians even at the time of the invasion, they were predominantly Arian - and shifted to Roman Christianity) and customs.

The "idea of Rome" was never gone; after a certain point, it just wasn't enough to keep the political entity going. What you're saying about "redefining" the cosmopolitan idea is much more appropriate to the Eastern Rome actually, as post-1204 reconstituted Byzantine Empire was progressively turning more and more into "kingdom of the Greeks" (owing to a large extent to losing most territories with non-Greek majority).
I firmly believe that the Germans were always going to be "the future" of the Roman lands when the Visigoths arrived. Rome had the choice to either accept that (assimilate the Germans) or reject it (keep them at arms length as foederati). Rome rejected destiny and destiny destroyed Rome.

-Why do I believe this? Simple fact that there were way too many German refugees coming in. They had strong demographics and a warrior culture. There was no exterminating them. Keep in mind, I am looking at the time period when the Visogoths first arrived or maybe shortly before that. This destiny was by no means set in stone but by the time the Visigoths came, this course was set.

-This is a cautionary tale to all nations who reject destiny.
As pointed out above, I feel there was no real "rejection" going on, at least not any more than in all the previous Roman history. Could Western Rome be preserved as a single political entity? Maybe. Would it have made any difference in the subsequent history? Probably not. "Rome" persisted as an idea anyway, well into the modern era. Had the Western Empire survived politically until, say, 9th century, I doubt it would have looked much different from the Carolingian Empire of the time.
Cue the Rome 1 Total War ost.
Oh that brings back memories. The OST was amazing...
But which version is the best (just in case).......
RTW1 with Europa Barbarorum. The one and only.
 
Hi, thank you for constantly upgrading the mod. I still remember the last time Khmer was still unplayable due to the "Semi-civilized" trait. Thank god it has been updated. I just recently downloaded the latest version (the May 2025 one), i realise that if i pick some different leader other than ther original leader, the name still shows "Sun Quan" ? Also the city names are quite different between each leader... Is this suppose to happen?
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Hi, thank you for constantly upgrading the mod. I still remember the last time Khmer was still unplayable due to the "Semi-civilized" trait. Thank god it has been updated. I just recently downloaded the latest version (the May 2025 one), i realise that if i pick some different leader other than ther original leader, the name still shows "Sun Quan" ?
Known bug, fixed for the next release. You can rename your leader in-game anyway.
Also the city names are quite different between each leader... Is this suppose to happen?
Yes, city lists are leader-specific.
 
Oof, that's a hard answer. I ran the installer and I'm playing with Civ 4 BtS on Steam, sent it to the folder with Civ4BeyondSword.exe. Verified game files and it didn't find anything out of place. Can't think of anything I've done to the files beyond that, unless dropping C2C manually into my mods folder changed anything.
 
It's turn 12, how did Japan get all this cool stuff? :lol: I want it too.
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P.S. About me declaring war so early... hmhmh don't ask I was just experimenting... or something like that :yumyum:
 
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