Realism Invictus

[xondrax]

Hi, after lurking these forums for some time I decided to join in.
Played the version 3.2. This mod is certainly one of the best made for civ 4. It makes the game look much better, adds variety and is pretty well balanced. However, I think it has few problems:

1. K-mod´s AI and its urge to declare war every time it can. In normal game you have often endless war-peace-war cycles where you force the AI to peace and after 10 turns it attacks you again, no matter how much it got beaten up. It`s extremely annoying when you have 4 neighbors and everybody is doing that.

2. The Citizen specialist is useless. One is almost always worse than tiles in city radius.

3. Barbarian archers. There´s not much to do when one enters your area in early game and goes to a forested/ hill tile, pillaging things in every direction. I read that you are going to do something for that in 3.2.1. Please, do it!

Keep up the good work!

1. If you have bigest army and good relationship with others that help.

2. I had towns without hammers that used citizens sometimes. Also you can get hindu wonder that gives them 1 more hammer.

3.) Yep on swn, militia and their upgrades have big bonus against archers and it helps a lot.

 

[Hian the Frog]

Playing svn 4688 and 5 power 3 movement horseman (edit: all his mutations for every nation) cant be upgraded. I dont think they are other units that cant be upgraded (except top tier) so I ask if it is bug, thanks for answer (great mod btw).

Really ? I will check.
If true, then it's a bug. It should upgrade to an Improved Horseman and later to Pistolier, Hussar, etc.

 

[xondrax]

Really ? I will check.
If true, then it's a bug. It should upgrade to an Improved Horseman and later to Pistolier, Hussar, etc.

In menu in civilopedia I can see that I can upgrade 5 power horseman into 8 power horseman, but once I start game, it disappears. I can even build knights or pistoliers, but I cant upgrade regural 5 power horseman into anything. No idea why .

 

[HannibalBarka]

Playing svn 4688 and 5 power 3 movement horseman (edit: all his mutations for every nation) cant be upgraded. I dont think they are other units that cant be upgraded (except top tier) so I ask if it is bug, thanks for answer (great mod btw).

I do not have this problem with the Mongols. their 5p3m horse can be upgraded to the 8p3m one.

 

[Hian the Frog]

In menu in civilopedia I can see that I can upgrade 5 power horseman into 8 power horseman, but once I start game, it disappears. I can even build knights or pistoliers, but I cant upgrade regural 5 power horseman into anything. No idea why .

Yes. I understand.
I explain. What you can read in the pedia is the global theorical roster.

But... Some civs can't build Improved Horseman while other can't build Medium Cavalry and/or Improved Horse Archer and/or Pistolier.

In one word, it depends on what civ you're playing. As an example, England can build the Medium Cavalry and Pistolier but can't build the Improved Horseman and Improved Archer IIRC.
What is important is the pedia of the civ you're playing as some units aren't allowed.

 

[Manco Capac]

Does it mean it's normal the Aztecs don't have a 7 swordman starting the medieval period then? I know there is the 4 slots of that super runner eagle warrior, but I haven't found the sweet 7 swordman yet. I guess it is disabled for them...

 

[xondrax]

Yes. I understand.
I explain. What you can read in the pedia is the global theorical roster.

But... Some civs can't build Improved Horseman while other can't build Medium Cavalry and/or Improved Horse Archer and/or Pistolier.

In one word, it depends on what civ you're playing. As an example, England can build the Medium Cavalry and Pistolier but can't build the Improved Horseman and Improved Archer IIRC.
What is important is the pedia of the civ you're playing as some units aren't allowed.

Thanks for answer. Does it mean, for example that civs without 8 power dude cant upgrade 5 power dude directly into Higher tier dude (pistolier 9? power)? You know, are there units that can (edit: double negative) be never promoted (edit: upgraded)?
edit: Not sure if you will understand what I mean: Vikings, have 5 power horseman, but they dont have 8 power version of improved horseman, but they can build 9 power pistolier (named charged cavalery). Shouldnt I be able to promote my 5 power horseman directly into pistolier when I can build them? I can actualy build 5 power horseman in modern age, I can also build hussar (12 power 3 movement, I believe he is a unit horseman should be upgraded into) but I still cant promote him . So for example if great general leads my horseman, he will be horseman led with general forever, against tanks and airplanes etc.

 

[Darkphoenix]

2. The Citizen specialist is useless. One is almost always worse than tiles in city radius.

It gets better. There's buildings and civics that improve them. Also, once you start getting into Industrial/Modern eras, your cities may be able to support population that are larger than the number of useable squares.

 

[Ahnarras]

I have a little question concerning the random map generator going with your mod (perfect moongounse, i think). When i use it, my starting position always have a lot of valuable ressource. Something like 6-7 or even more.
I know that the first city should have more ressource, but so much more...?

I like it a lot more when i'm playing the huge world map, where, for exemple, the egyptian only have 2 ressource at the beginning (and 3 more later, which is ok).

So i was wondering: is there a way to add a screen on the random map generator, like we already have to choose the map size, cylindric or toroidal, ect.... but one where we could choose how much ressource we want in the world? Could be a simple 3 choice: half the current amount / no change / double it.
What do you think of it?

 

[Routalempi]

1. If you have bigest army and good relationship with others that help.

The problem isn´t really the AI being aggressive or attacking when I´m vulnerable. That is perfectly fine. Annoying thing is AI DOW:ing me no matter how strong I am or how badly it was ruined in last war between us.
When AI is mad enough, it will always attack you and only possibility to end this is destroying or capitalizing the civ. Continuing war cycles often makes AIs relations to be something like -20. Maybe there should be some kind of cap how angry the AI could be . When relations are like that, AI will never forget how evil you were when you forced them to peace after they attacked you first
Now, when you are going to war you have to be ready to wipe out whole target. It´s impossible to take just one city without going to the endless cycle of war.

Looked the svn changes and unit balancing looks promising. Giving shield+spear units bonus vs archers is good in terms of gameplay and realism.

 

[Shuikkanen]

Continuing war cycles often makes AIs relations to be something like -20. Maybe there should be some kind of cap how angry the AI could be .

There already is. I believe it's at -100

Now, when you are going to war you have to be ready to wipe out whole target. It´s impossible to take just one city without going to the endless cycle of war.

I disagree. In my current game I'm at peace with the Arabs who literally adore me... Even though I declared war on them and banished them from my continent after they'd settled a couple of cities there.

The range of behaviors and experiences regarding AI in this mod even with identical settings vary so much that I no longer consider anything a trend until I've witnessed it in about a dozen games.

 

[Routalempi]

There already is. I believe it's at -100

For some reason I've had at least 2 cycles of war in every game this far. It's not Guaranteed to happen EVERY time the war breaks out, but almost. I guess it really depends on different settings and other things. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong...

 

[Manco Capac]

I've played over a dozen ames and totally, the AI is war-obsessed. Seriously, it is immensely rare to see the AI be in peace more than 20 turns.

If playing in semi-isolation, expect no diplomatic relationship with your partner, even reaching FRIENDLY. If attaining it is possible anyways....

 

[Sathar]

I have a little question concerning the random map generator going with your mod (perfect moongounse, i think). When i use it, my starting position always have a lot of valuable ressource. Something like 6-7 or even more.
I know that the first city should have more ressource, but so much more...?

I like it a lot more when i'm playing the huge world map, where, for exemple, the egyptian only have 2 ressource at the beginning (and 3 more later, which is ok).

So i was wondering: is there a way to add a screen on the random map generator, like we already have to choose the map size, cylindric or toroidal, ect.... but one where we could choose how much ressource we want in the world? Could be a simple 3 choice: half the current amount / no change / double it.
What do you think of it?

I think much of the problem here is that PerfectMongoose was a bit of a work in progress. It's an update of PerfectWorld3, which is a Civ V script. That was an update to the excellent PerfectWorld 2, which sadly is no longer updated by the original author. Another author retrofitted PerfectWorld 3 to work with Civ 4, and LunarMongoose added some further tweaks, but left some notable things left undone, like what you mention. Also to our collective sadness, LunarMongoose hasn't updated PerfectMongoose in a long time, and it's not clear if he ever will. As far as I can tell, the RI team basically copied over the last PerfectMongoose script available (well over a year old now), with only minor changes to provide RI terrain features and maybe some slight tweaks to the land mass percentages.

One of the bigger shortcomings of the PerfectMongoose/PerfectWorld scripts is the, well let's say suboptimal, way that starting plots are picked. To make up for this, bonus resources are added to make up for a crummy start location -- if I see five fish resources in my start area, I'll usually just generate a new map. LunarMongoose apparently had a rewrite for this entire section of the script in mind, but never (to my knowledge) finished it.

Additionally, I don't like the way that the landmass generator in this script tends to make lots of long, stringy, very narrow continents. This is probably at least in part because it was designed for Civ V's hexagonal maps. Even using the alternate generators (square grid or PW2 option), I feel like I tend to get small, remote continents not well suited for random games. It's slightly better if I set Sea Level to low, but still not perfect.

I really loved PerfectWorld 2 back when it was current, and I want very much to love its successors. Unfortunately, in its present form, I really find it unplayable. Since it isn't their script, the RI team hasn't (understandably) really been too active in updating/rewriting it beyond simply making it compatible (which it is). I'm sure that I'm not alone in wishing that LunarMongoose (or someone) would take up the task of updating the script, but it is no doubt not a small task (I certainly don't have the skill or experience).

 

[Joker.ru]

Awesome mod guys, unfortunately with great variety comes great complexity and fan base for CIV4 mods is already pretty thin (compared to few years ago).
IMHO, very good PR move for RI team would be to start a SUCCESSION game (with just RI members or 50-50) and showcase all the new features and explain the thinking and logic behind each feature and way mod is meant to be played. This will definitely help bring a lot of attention to this great work.

Thanks

 

[Ahnarras]

Additionally, I don't like the way that the landmass generator in this script tends to make lots of long, stringy, very narrow continents. This is probably at least in part because it was designed for Civ V's hexagonal maps. Even using the alternate generators (square grid or PW2 option), I feel like I tend to get small, remote continents not well suited for random games. It's slightly better if I set Sea Level to low, but still not perfect.

When i tried to edit the way the map was generated, i noticed that the probability a player will start on a coast tile was very high. Maybe it has something to do with the lack of big block of landmass.

 

[HannibalBarka]

When i tried to edit the way the map was generated, i noticed that the probability a player will start on a coast tile was very high. Maybe it has something to do with the lack of big block of landmass.

Map choice is indeed very limited in RI I think. I actually uses always the same PlanetGenerator IIRC.
1. MongooseMaps are too heavy on Tundra and have the "very rich resource pb"
2. Evolution just never worked for me as It always generate an all grass map ??
3. PW are not working nicely either

I'd love to try the highland new script, but it has too much land and too few water and I couldn't find a way to increase the % of water.

 

[Manco Capac]

I found Tectonics being my regular mapscript. Such variety of landmasse(s) forms.
Sadly, the mapscripts dedicated to RI all bug, giving me a map all grasslands with some rivers and some resources. No features at all.

 

[Oktoberfest]

I found Tectonics being my regular mapscript. Such variety of landmasse(s) forms.
Sadly, the mapscripts dedicated to RI all bug, giving me a map all grasslands with some rivers and some resources. No features at all.

Tectonics has always generated the best maps for me as well, while the new Map scripts added to 3.2 just crash.

On top of that the game does seem a bit less stable now as every once in a while I get an error message out of nowhere saying "Bad Memory Allocation" and then shuts down. Thank God for Auto-save.

 

[sami_snow]

I like the perfectmongoose better if you use toroidal wrap