Really WWGD?

[DeclaresWar]

I am playing through a game with Sajong and patch 131.56. Everything is going great, I have been in a few conflicts I joined to please my allies, have some good land and wonders, and so a few reasons for someone to hate me. However, most of the relations with other civs are friendly even if they shouldnt be (they have way more bad things to say about me than nice things). What I have encountered was that one of my "friends", Ghandi had friendly incentives towards me however ends up denouncing. Looking at his outlook to me it says, among other things, your friends found reason to denounce you.

Well that doesnt make sense to me, he shouldnt have a negative attribute towards me for that reason, since he was the one who denounced me during an alliance. No one else has denounced me yet, but I feel because of this in the next few turns there is going to be some massive denouncing or at least worst attitudes, and some lost alliances in the future.

What I would like to see, is that this "your friends found reason to denounce you" not spread like wild fire. I dont think it should impact other civs that already dont like you, they have better reasons to have cold feelings towards me. And civs that are in alliance with me should really weight the decision between picking sides. If they are closer to the civ denouncing me, then sure I understand them wanting to have a worsened outlook on me, but civs that have a better relation with me should also not be impacted. This game really needs to incorporate a concept of loyalty.

The other thing that is why show someone being friendly, when they have good reasons to denounce me. There needs to be a warning indicator, and then there needs to be a way to break the alliance with someone you feel will denounce you next turn. There is actually a great WWGD mod I tried before that allows just this, but it doesnt seem to work with this mod. Is it possible to do something similar?

The other strange thing is when interacting with Ghandi he gives this great speech that my enemies should fear me, blah, blah, and then in big letters DENOUNCING. Seems kind of like Ghandi cant decide which end of the spear he wants to be on.



Just in general the AI in civ 5 is horrible, and I know, I am the millionth person to complain about this. Heres hoping the expansion will have a more fine tuned AI.

 

[Jaybe]

Gandhi in particular is quick to denounce those who have declared as few as two wars. If you have DOWed with others to gain their favor multiple times, it is useful to know that Gandhi doesn't care for such behavior.

On subsequent turns, does not his attitude list your warmongering among the factors?

While attitude factors may abound in favorable & unfavorable listings, you do not know how much weight each leader gives each item. As I understand it, that weighting may even vary from game to game.

Yes, an AI that is a friend of another AI that denounces you may very well end up denouncing you also. It's part of what makes the game so interesting!

 

[Thalassicus]

As Jaybe pointed out, if you choose violence as a way to solve your problems Gandhi will eventually dislike you, no matter what your previous relations were. He feels the strongest about pacifism. On the other hand, ruthless leaders like Augustus Caesar couldn't care less if you beat up on their neighbors. It depends on the personality of the AI.

I agree with you about the "friends denounced you" thing, which is why I reduced the modifier by half compared to vanilla.

The capability to end alliances was from when they were permanent. Now, they expire. The stand-alone version of WWGD is from before that time. I feel the capability to end alliances whenever we want now makes the decision of who to ally with less weighty. If we can end an alliance when things go badly, why not ally with everyone we can? I feel it's more challenging if we have to carefully pick our allies.