Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

[W|M]

@whosit: damn my memory being a questionable source

@MN: When will Cull get back?

 

[Ravus_Sol]

@whosit: The reason we want to bulb a religion is because the Monks want to, and will, no one wants to anger the monks at this point.

Whu?

Seriously, i know there was some joke about me being the cliche' kung fu monk when i got asked to be a military minister... and i know there was some story jokes about the magical powers of the monks... and the fact that my commando plan was a ruthless "burn everything to the ground"... and that i said i'd snap and go dark if i kept ending up in powerful political positions...

but apart from all that, why does no one want to anger the monks?

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I should probably ask but does the current Coalition in power see me as a radical or a neutral middle party to listen to?

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Whosit, good to have you onboard. looks like the imperialists are getting stronger

And why are people asking for Code of Laws as the religion? Isn't the tech path obvious?

- Ayra wants the lesser religious techs to trade.
- We need monarchy for the civic and wine for a buffer city
- Ayra prefers Feaudalism over machinery for a archer unit.

So shouldn't the techpath be Religious techs > monarchy > Feaudalism ?

If the opposition is worried about using the great prophet to make a shrine instead of bulb a religion remember that as long as the capital doesn't dilute its great person pool then it will pump out another great prophet in about 60-80 turns. so around the end of the next presidents tenure'.

 

[W|M]

Those lesser techs will already have been researched, monarchy is better later on when it's cheaper and we prefer Machinery due to Aggressive Infantry-heavy Rome being next to us, so we can make X-Bows to counter them.

EDIT: X-Bows are also cheaper.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

Those lesser techs will already have been researched,

I'm not sure what you mean by that... but if you mean that others allready have them, then yes they do. Unfortunatly they don't want to trade them to us.

The bonus is that for every civ you meet that knows a tech you get a bonus on researching it neat huh, and with everyone having the lowest religious techs we can get them done quickly.

I agree monarchy is not something i usually go for or care about as i normally get pyramids and skip to representaion quickly. But it's on the tech path to feudalism and it seems to be something that Ayra is going for.

Personally i see longbow men as the perfect all-round defence troop and x-bow men as the perfect attack troop against romen pratorians. To get the xbow we have to go via metal casting which could get us a nice trade bait tech along with mathematics. So we could eventually get some good trades...

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The Monks support a religion no longer just to found a english way of belief. But also as religion is the only way to crack this buddist block wide open. It will take some nifty political manouvering but if we get theocracy instead then the aposalistic palace will allow us a lot of control over events.

We can stop wars against us! definatly worth trying to get.

also the AP combined with a temple working a priest will get us that extra great prophet even quicker. The AP also gets us 2 hammers per temple which is nothing to sneer at for start up cities.

 

[Whosit]

@whosit: damn my memory being a questionable source

It happens to the best of us. And, as it happens, the benefit of having a valuable shrine is that you can afford to keep the Science slider high, meaning that you get less gold from Commerce. This is an interesting read on the subject: http://www.dos486.com/civ4/index/bank.shtml Warning: It is very math oriented.

Cull is on vacation. He can still log on, but pretty rarely. However, both of them (along with me and WIM) would be willing to discuss and possibly negotiate.

I think negotiation would be productive, but that is only my opinion, of course. I do hope that you agree, otherwise we risk paralyzing the nation, and that is not good for any party involved, especially in these dangerous and uncertain times.

@Ravus_Sol: I'm certainly not afraid to anger the monks! Take that how you will.

I really just want to see the Foreign Adviser Tech Screen to see what the AI has in regards to the lower tier religious techs. They are only good for trading if no one else has them because they are not worth very much. Even if only half the AI has Meditation, we are not very likely to get anything in trade for it because: a) it is cheap in the first place, and b) the AI devalues a tech for each other civilization that knows it. However, seeing the actual trade screen would help enlighten me on the matter.

As for tech plan, Construction should still be prioritized because Catapults will make it much easier for us to defeat enemy armies. War seems likely, so we had best prepare. Unless, of course, Peter is so forgiving as to overlook recent events?

Monarchy: I do not think that we need this immediately for a couple of reasons: There are some happiness resources in Spain we can connect relatively quickly (with proper Worker support), that being Silver and Gold (which needs another city to grab). We also do not currently have enough troops to make Monarchy valuable, although hopefully that will soon change. However, if by the time we research whatever we're doing next our garrisons have grown, Monarchy may be a good tech, after all. I do support a good king, after all.

Feudalism: Depends on our economy. I often find that it's not worth beelining because it takes so long to research before the economy is fully developed. But we'll see. Longbowmen are better at overall defense that Crossbowmen.

Edit:

The Monks support a religion no longer just to found a english way of belief. But also as religion is the only way to crack this buddist block wide open. It will take some nifty political manouvering but if we get theocracy instead then the aposalistic palace will allow us a lot of control over events.

We can stop wars against us! definatly worth trying to get.

also the AP combined with a temple working a priest will get us that extra great prophet even quicker. The AP also gets us 2 hammers per temple which is nothing to sneer at for start up cities.

Could be very useful, indeed, but we are not Spiritual, so building a Temple first in a new city would not be a very efficient use of resources.

EDIT: X-Bows are also cheaper.

Sorry. Longbowmen cost 50 hammers; Crossbowmen cost 60.

 

[W|M]

See previous post. I probably confused the techs or something. Not playing for a while (especially vanilla bts, which I have never played - just mods). A new city has more priority than a temple, but it would be good to spread a religion there. Christianity would be good to get, but Confucianism opens up Courthouses, which would help our REX economy a LOT. And, as mentioned, MC is a good trade chip and we might even be able to build the Colossus with it.

 

[MathNerd]

It happens to the best of us. And, as it happens, the benefit of having a valuable shrine is that you can afford to keep the Science slider high, meaning that you get less gold from Commerce. This is an interesting read on the subject: http://www.dos486.com/civ4/index/bank.shtml Warning: It is very math oriented.



I think negotiation would be productive, but that is only my opinion, of course. I do hope that you agree, otherwise we risk paralyzing the nation, and that is not good for any party involved, especially in these dangerous and uncertain times.

@Ravus_Sol: I'm certainly not afraid to anger the monks! Take that how you will.

I really just want to see the Foreign Adviser Tech Screen to see what the AI has in regards to the lower tier religious techs. They are only good for trading if no one else has them because they are not worth very much. Even if only half the AI has Meditation, we are not very likely to get anything in trade for it because: a) it is cheap in the first place, and b) the AI devalues a tech for each other civilization that knows it. However, seeing the actual trade screen would help enlighten me on the matter.

As for tech plan, Construction should still be prioritized because Catapults will make it much easier for us to defeat enemy armies. War seems likely, so we had best prepare. Unless, of course, Peter is so forgiving as to overlook recent events?

Monarchy: I do not think that we need this immediately for a couple of reasons: There are some happiness resources in Spain we can connect relatively quickly (with proper Worker support), that being Silver and Gold (which needs another city to grab). We also do not currently have enough troops to make Monarchy valuable, although hopefully that will soon change. However, if by the time we research whatever we're doing next our garrisons have grown, Monarchy may be a good tech, after all. I do support a good king, after all.

Feudalism: Depends on our economy. I often find that it's not worth beelining because it takes so long to research before the economy is fully developed. But we'll see. Longbowmen are better at overall defense that Crossbowmen.

Edit:



Could be very useful, indeed, but we are not Spiritual, so building a Temple first in a new city would not be a very efficient use of resources.



Sorry. Longbowmen cost 50 hammers; Crossbowmen cost 60.

Math oriented? Not a problem!

Of course the opposition is willing to negotiate! We are (no matter how it may not seem so) rather flexible.

The tech trade screen was posted a while ago on some page. Look through the last week or so and you may find it.

Also, I have no idea when Cull might come back (he's been gone for like the last month).

 

[W|M]

I think the tech screen should be posted again, it would take a little while to go through all last week...

EDIT: Don't you personally know Cull? Try contacting him and asking.

 

[MathNerd]

EDIT: Don't you personally know Cull? Try contacting him and asking.

I'll PM him.

 

[Aysee]

Couldn't you just call him or email him or something?

 

[MathNerd]

I have no idea where exactly he's staying, so I can't call, and I know Cull checks his email less frequently than he does CivFanatics because he's often on CF and not on gmail.

 

[mechaerik]

@Ravus: I personally see you as a moderate party. Take that as you wish.

@arya: I recommend Code of Laws to research. Apart from founding Confu, it also grants courthouses, and we must bring the rule of law to our border provinces.

Also, at some point, I would suggest moving the capital to Ravus-York. It would cut down on maintenance costs. Not necessarily now, thats a long term thing.

 

[MathNerd]

@arya: I recommend Code of Laws to research. Apart from founding Confu, it also grants courthouses, and we must bring the rule of law to our border provinces.

Great idea for the opposition! Not so great for the administration because it shows how weak the government is. But then again, failing to appease the public will just bring up the chances of an armed revolution, so take your pick.

 

[Whosit]

Great idea for the opposition! Not so great for the administration because it shows how weak the government is. But then again, failing to appease the public will just bring up the chances of an armed revolution, so take your pick.

I am afraid that I do not see how researching Code of Laws and building Courthouses shows that the government is weak. Rather, does it not show that the government is expanding its control over the outlying province, and making strides to unify the English legal system?

Also, I do hope that your threat of an armed revolution is nothing more than a joke. If we cannot abide by the rule of law, what hope do we have as a nation? Be careful of setting dangerous precedents.

 

[MathNerd]

I am afraid that I do not see how researching Code of Laws and building Courthouses shows that the government is weak. Rather, does it not show that the government is expanding its control over the outlying province, and making strides to unify the English legal system?

Also, I do hope that your threat of an armed revolution is nothing more than a joke. If we cannot abide by the rule of law, what hope do we have as a nation? Be careful of setting dangerous precedents.

Yes, but it shows how the government gave in to the opposition's demands.

I will not comment on whether or not AR is a joke. Just reminding you, ML is still available.

EDIT: Whosit, it seems like you are more active than our president.

 

[Whosit]

EDIT: Whosit, it seems like you are more active than our president.

Maybe we should have a new election? JUST KIDDING!!
This may be a philosophical difference, but I do not necessarily believe that changing one's stance or taking the advice of opponents is a sign of weakness.

 

[MathNerd]

I don't at consider that weakness. What I consider weakness is switching due to it being the opposition offering the ideas. Arya has defended his plan and argued against Conf. for long enough to convince me that if he suddenly changed, it would be out of fear of the opposition. Anyway, what are we waiting for ATM?

 

[Whosit]

There you go, my friends

- Lighthearter

Tech tree and Trade Screen, from page 60 and June 19th. Wow, I didn't realize before, but this thread covers a lot of ground fast.

Anyway, two Civilizations already have Polytheism, so it's probably pretty useless for trade. Only one has Meditation, but it's still pretty iffy for trade because it's so cheap. Part of the problem with researching anything for trade is the fact that we're unlikely to get trades with anyone as things stand.

Actually, the more I look at this, the stranger it looks. The AI seems to have skipped a lot of techs they normally research . . . . But Asoka could grab Code of Laws if we are unlucky. He could also research Theology. It would take some time to set it up, and it would require a Great Scientist (I think; have to review the bulb priority list), but we could try to bulb Philosophy to get Taoism. Not my recommendation, though.

I think that trades were already discussed, but if nothing has been traded yet, I'd try to see if we could get Iron Working from Khan, because we'd only give up Writing, which is generally well-known.

Also, I have no idea what we are waiting for. When will the next set of turns be played? Are we waiting for the President to give his instructions? Hopefully we'll have more discussion, of course.

 

[Aysee]

We're waiting for an update. As usual.

So? Just because he's the President doesn't mean he has to be posting all the time. Past Preses didnt.

We could always just research CoL in a roundabout way, you know. As I recall, you demanded bee-lining it.

That IS all you have to do . . . I don't hear so many people supporting the government.

Coalition Tallies:

Green Philosophers(west india man/MathNerd): 5
Coalition of the Future(arya126/Aysee): 17

 

[MathNerd]

I'm thinking that we could manually tech currency then bulb CoL. (If you want to go down that path). After that, we'll let the administration decide what to do (for now...).