Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

[Cull]

You weren't being rambly, I was just being dumb.

Yes, its an animistic flight or fight response, however, and this is key, WE know that these are equal humans. They don't, but, in our immortal lives, we will see these people rise up to become "humans" in the intellectual sense, and come to realize that they are the same as us. Therefore, while the initial reaction may be less than great, in the long run, they are, to an extent, our equals. After all, were we not descended from creatures not all unlike like these? And are we human?

(I may be missing the point again...)

 

[W|M]

Ravus_Sol, if you like that civs did not understand others in the stone age, perhaps you would like to try a mod that makes everyone minor civs (automatically at war with everyone) until the discovery of writing? Also, stone age people knew others were humans, as they looked too similar to them to be an entirely different species, and probably had similar technological advances.

 

[Cull]

Or just play an always war game?

 

[Ravus_Sol]

You weren't being rambly, I was just being dumb.

Yes, its an animistic flight or fight response, however, and this is key, WE know that these are equal humans. They don't, but, in our immortal lives, we will see these people rise up to become "humans" in the intellectual sense, and come to realize that they are the same as us. Therefore, while the initial reaction may be less than great, in the long run, they are, to an extent, our equals. After all, were we not descended from creatures not all unlike like these? And are we human?

(I may be missing the point again...)

Nope you got it, i just wanted an logical in-game reason why the British people would be more 'enlightened' then the other civilizations. I'd actually forgotten the whole Immortal polticians thing oops, but yeah that solves that point of view quite easily.

@West India man: I was making a hypthesised position on the stoneage thing to try and clarify a point of view i was making, i definatly don't know enough about history to be any kind of expert.

I'd assumed that stoneage people wouldn't have any concept of a 'species'. Not in the sense that we do. Where we have the biological knowledge and sense of time that we can imagine back along species' lines. Most of the Stoneage people made gods of their beasts, turned them into something mythical. If another type of human came along, even if they were only different culturally i would assume they would apply this same mythical sense of thinking to them, not the logical. Thus the other men would become gods or spirits or beasts. True they may see them as men like themselves but BOTH sides have to see each other as equal, if one side still views you as a beast when you smile and walk towards them all the other person is seeing is a beast bearing its teeth and closing in on it's prey.

On technologies some ancient civilizations were strangly advanced in some ways. I definatly know the romans had fancy aqueducts and i think the babylonians had a advanced understanding of mathematics and the solar system. But these fancy knowledges don't make a lick of difference when a rampaging horde comes over the horizen because they think you are devils of some kind. *shrug*

 

[Lighthearter]

The conclusion of the Lighthearter Administration has come without a hitch. These are our technological advances:

And here are the stats for the city of London:

Now that President Ravus_Sol has taken office, what is his decision on our path?(Feel free to ask anyone for aid in this decision.)

- Lighthearter

 

[Cull]

An update.

 

[arya126]

yay an update!!!

well i believe we should get a settler out before the stonehenge. it worth the risk of an early wonder to get a second city to help the empire grow. also we need to syop working on the plot with 2 hammers and one food farthest from london and use the 3 food, 1 commerce plot to the direct west of london. without it our people are starving and poor are in the streets.

and my prefered build path would be settler, stonehenge, worker, settler, galley. the first settler goes to scotland and the second will be shipped to france. the reason for us to wait for the second to place one in france is that we need time to finish masonry and research sailing for the galleys. then we need time to make a galley. animal husbandry should be a priority after sailing so that we can buld a pasture for london just west of it.

 

[W|M]

Why is London starving? There are perfectly good tiles with more food to prevent starvation on the south coast. Also, what has London been building?

 

[Cull]

And risk Stonehenge for a settler? I think Stonehenge first. Keeping the current tiles, since Stonehenge is critical. Can you turn on advanced city display? Want to see how many turns to starve to size 2.

Stonehenge-Galley-Settler

Worker: MINE the stone, but first farm the cows 1/4/1 bumping production to 9 hammers/turn completing Henge sooner.

Plan 1: Worker mine stone, current tiles, assuming mine in 4, and 10 starvation
t31
Worker move to stone, Henge 7/120
t32
Worker mines stone 1/4, Henge 14/120
t33
Worker mines stone 2/4, Henge 21/120
t34
Worker mines stone 3/4, Henge 28/120
t35
Stone Mine Done, Henge 37/120
t36
Worker actions decided later. Henge 46/120
t38
Henge 55/120
t39
Henge 64/120
t40
Henge 73/120
t41
City Starves down to Size 2, assumes City is Size 2, Henge 80/120
Henge done 6 turns, on t47
-----
Plan 2: Assume farm in 3, farm the cows, keep the same tiles
t31
farm 1/3, Henge 7/120
t32
farm 2/3, Henge 14/120
t33
farm done, switch to cow farm(assume 4 food)/stone/forest, assuming growth in 5, Henge 19/120
t34
Grow in 4, Henge 24/120, worker moves to mine Stone Hill
t35
Grow in 3, Henge 29/120, Worker mines 1/4
t36
Grow in 2, Henge 34/120, Worker mines 2/4
t37
Grow in 1, Henge 39/120, Worker mines 3/4
t38
London Size 4, stays there for rest of plan, picks up a forest, Mine done, Production 9, Henge 48/120
Henge done in 8, on t 46

1 turn earlier. Really no biggy. My math in starving times, or how long to build tile improvements could be wrong. A mine could take 3, a farm 4.

 

[W|M]

...Were you a fan of civ 3?

Going to bed now, back in 8 hours

 

[Cull]

Nope, was 5ish when Civ 3 came out. Hang out at RB, and have a little too mich on your time does this. Sick today, came back from school puking, felt better, and typed the above in 10ish minutes. Not tough, just boring.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

Update suprise!

Thanks Lighthearter for the screenshots, can we get one final one of Scotland with the resource toggle on so that we can see if scotland is worth getting early. If it's rubbish then theres no point rushing a settler that could wait untill paris.

@West India man: London was working on a barracks but when it was changed over to a worker it seems to have lost it, don't know why, if you don't work on something thats in the queue does it disapear?

Good work on the layout Cull, but your forgetting that we havn't teched Masonry yet so we can't work the stone for 4 turns anyway.

How long does a workboat take to build? is it 20 or 30 hammers? I'm thinking a maybe few turns of hungry people while we get a workboat out and farm the cows while we wait for masonry. Then switch of to the big food piles to get to high population while building stonehenge...

Of course i'm being biased as i'm crying inside over the unworkboated fish when we started with fishing.

I'll check to see how much a workboat costs first. Not to mention whether Scotland is worthwhile settler rushing while the worker does his thing. But I don't want to get passed turn 60 without building stonehenge as by then you're just asking for the AI's to steal it.

Comments Ministers?
The extra 10 turns of Lighthearter administration have most likely changed our plans. So comment please

 

[Cull]

You can still mine the stone tile, not quarry it. +2 hammers
instead of the quarry bonus.

 

[Cull]

Double post

 

[Ravus_Sol]

ADDITIONLY: Work boat takes 30hammers. Remember That we don't have bronze working so we can't chop down the woods to rush. nor can we autoconnect the stone unless we rush the sailing tech after masonry.

I'm in favour of working the cows/stone/forest while farming the cows and getting a workboat out then building a quarry and starting stonehenge. If we use both the farmed cows and fish as soon as possible we can get stonehenge on turn 48 with a 5 size city ready for settler spaming.

For those who were wondering about a settler straight away. A settler costs 100 hammers only slightly less then the wonder we are after. And considering we won't be growing or get double production speed from stone it will take about the same amount of time.

 

[MathNerd]

I agree with the settler first plan, farming the cow, like Ravus_Sol said. Once London is reasonably sized, we can chop Stonehenge. Of course, we'd need Bronze Working ASAP.

 

[Jayrad]

I am in favor of settler first because we can get another city in without getting much costs (Provided we're talking about scotland) which means we can keep a good tech rate and means that we can be working on somthing else and Stonghenge evnethough we will get a late start on it.

 

[MathNerd]

Also, this is Noble. (Not that I'm one to be talking- I haven't even beaten Prince!) Stonehenge won't be done by the AIs for a while.

 

[Cull]

In a normal game with maybe two industrious civs, and sparse stone resources, on Noble, that would be the case. However, as shown, by our game, and the more than average numbers of civs, there will be industrious civs with stone. I still advocate Stonehenge first. I might make a sandbox, to see how Scotland, compared to Stonehenge plays out.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

Noble doesn't affect the likelyhood stonehenge will be built, that depends on whether the leader is industrious and has mysticsm and has stone. If they have 3 then the AI will build it. Considering there are probably 4-5 industrous leaders on the map there's a high likelyhood that one of them has stone, eventually they will get masonry and msysticsm and then they'll start to build it. (if they have Bronze Working as well it's even worse.

Basically the way i see it we have 3 options
1) go for Stonehenge ASAP. Doing the math we can get it on turn 44-45
tech masonry/sailing. worker farms the cow then quarrys the stone (sailing autoconnects for double production speed) city works the 3 forest tiles then the farmed cow then the stone. Finishes with 4 pop.
2) go for settler ASAP then Stonehenge. Again doing the math means we can do this on turn 50. Follow the same pattern as before but tech Bronzeworking after masonry for chopping. Connect the stone manually with a road then end with a single chop. City builds the settler. Once done it switches to stonehenge. Finishes turn 50.
3) Fish then stonehenge. work boat while working the forests. Worker farms the cows then quarrys the stones as in the first example. tech is the same, masonry/sailing. rushing the boat then Stonehenge means that the wonder finishes on turn 47-48 with a 5 pop city for spamming settlers.