Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR
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mechaerik
Tuturuu!
Definitely makes more sense. What else are you supposed to do with a cake besides eat it? Not much, unless youre a stripper and are going to jump out of it.
Cull
Big Daddy
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- Feb 21, 2010
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First off, sorry for the late reply. Had to deal with Ilduce on the Real-Senate thing first.
Please. They have Italy, the islands and Setia. We can rebuild faster and better than them. Unless you believe we're stupid people who can't do nothing. If they vassalize to Russia, which I highly doubt(I've rarely seen AIs vassalize to each other, but whatever), we just have to fight them, only Russia and Rome, again only on our terms.
Our terms being when we have the advantage, not when we're desperately trying to turn a horrible nightmare scenario in to a good one
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
Ditto as Cull. Now, I have an important decision to make, since LH wanted this done by tomorrow 4:00, which is around when I get access to the computer. So I'll send a plan tonight.
A) Assume, like Cull and I think we safely can, that Whosit will vote for #1, leading to a tie. Since there would then be a tie, I hope nobody would mind the Prez using his power to break the tie.
B) Assume nothing, and let Whosit's voice go unsung.
I'm choosing A. Sorry, guys.
A) Assume, like Cull and I think we safely can, that Whosit will vote for #1, leading to a tie. Since there would then be a tie, I hope nobody would mind the Prez using his power to break the tie.
B) Assume nothing, and let Whosit's voice go unsung.
I'm choosing A. Sorry, guys.
arya126
Squad Leader
Cull you have this wrong. Soon, once amsterdam and RY have a few cottages (nowhere near enough, but a few will be popping up soon enough if we move the workers NOW) our rate will probably be somewhere near 60-70 %. germany wont even bring it down. Its even a possibility once their 'revolt' phase is over then they will bring it UP. Neapolis is already a powerhoouse. Cumae most likely has VERY good production, and it looks like it is well developed, and probably can afford a few cottages around it to help out the economy. Then we can give medialanum to germany, since it offers no real benefit to us besides depriving rome of it, although im sure it would help Germany quite a bit (they are our vassal, in case you missed that bit. Wouldnt it make sense to connect our borders to theirs?). Then i think in time settia could develop into a mini RY, with its clams for food, and those plains ready for cottaging, and everything like that. Then rome is probably a powerhouse with at least one wonder, maybe even 2. Those will come in handy, you cant deny that. plus, the terrain and resources near rome is usually favorable to say teh least.
All in all, this land we are suggesting to take will probably increase our tech rate. Maybe not in the first 5-7 turns within taking it while we wait for it to stop revolting and we settle in and make whatever adjustements are needed. But after that, well this land will be a very powerful asset to us.
WHOSIT-
CHOICE 1: basicly your plan, in other words the one that MN has been supporting. You get the gist of it, although MN can explain the details in full. From what i understand, he is different on a few points, such as peace and when to stop and such.
CHOICE2: The compromise plan ravus came up with. I believe the links on the last page lead to the actual original post. But basicly it takes into account your desire for germany, my desire for italy, and our economic limit of one offensive army at a time. The first army will attack neapolis, and continue to cumae. Once these are taken, medialanum is taken. Some people (me and others) wish to gift this city to germany since it holds no value to us and will be useless maintenence. It will serve them better. but back on topic, a second army is forming from the troops that would normally be reinforcements to the first army, and they gather in antium for the second army. Once the first army has take medialanum, both armies converge on settia together. once it is take, they merge into one army, and it takes rome. After that we step back and evaluate the situation. I assume this will take around 40 turns unless the cities are very lightly defended.
CHOICE 3: This is my plan. basicly a combination of 2 and 3. We use the tactical movements of the armies and such of choice 2 (ravus'), while implemeneting the overall strategic goal of 4 in teh future. basicly we take germany and italy for ourselves, but continue the war to totally eliminate the romans. but instead of keeping future cities, we gift them to germany. This will create a powerful vassal, and will eliminate a huge future threat whether rome would end up surviving and rebuilding on its own or as a vassal of russia.
Choice 4: basicly what the whole 'gift cities to germany' part of my plan is based on. the problem is CF (the maker of this plan) is not sold on ravus' plan. But the overall goal of this plan (i think) is to take germany and italy for ourselves (atleast what we can afford at the moment) and take the rest but gift them to germany. He lists no specific plan on how to accomplish the taking of the cities.
i think thats it.
All in all, this land we are suggesting to take will probably increase our tech rate. Maybe not in the first 5-7 turns within taking it while we wait for it to stop revolting and we settle in and make whatever adjustements are needed. But after that, well this land will be a very powerful asset to us.
WHOSIT-
CHOICE 1: basicly your plan, in other words the one that MN has been supporting. You get the gist of it, although MN can explain the details in full. From what i understand, he is different on a few points, such as peace and when to stop and such.
CHOICE2: The compromise plan ravus came up with. I believe the links on the last page lead to the actual original post. But basicly it takes into account your desire for germany, my desire for italy, and our economic limit of one offensive army at a time. The first army will attack neapolis, and continue to cumae. Once these are taken, medialanum is taken. Some people (me and others) wish to gift this city to germany since it holds no value to us and will be useless maintenence. It will serve them better. but back on topic, a second army is forming from the troops that would normally be reinforcements to the first army, and they gather in antium for the second army. Once the first army has take medialanum, both armies converge on settia together. once it is take, they merge into one army, and it takes rome. After that we step back and evaluate the situation. I assume this will take around 40 turns unless the cities are very lightly defended.
CHOICE 3: This is my plan. basicly a combination of 2 and 3. We use the tactical movements of the armies and such of choice 2 (ravus'), while implemeneting the overall strategic goal of 4 in teh future. basicly we take germany and italy for ourselves, but continue the war to totally eliminate the romans. but instead of keeping future cities, we gift them to germany. This will create a powerful vassal, and will eliminate a huge future threat whether rome would end up surviving and rebuilding on its own or as a vassal of russia.
Choice 4: basicly what the whole 'gift cities to germany' part of my plan is based on. the problem is CF (the maker of this plan) is not sold on ravus' plan. But the overall goal of this plan (i think) is to take germany and italy for ourselves (atleast what we can afford at the moment) and take the rest but gift them to germany. He lists no specific plan on how to accomplish the taking of the cities.
i think thats it.
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
I know that you will attack me on this decision once you figure out the X-Post. What Cull and I decided on fiftychat was what we chose. If Whosit did not pick #1 like I assume, I am honestly sorry guys. 
I just sent the plan.
I just sent the plan.
arya126
Squad Leader
Since choice 3 is a relative of choice 2, i hereby remove my support for my own plan, and vote for choice 2. i think that breaks any possible tie correct?
Whosit if you wish to support my plan then i will revert to my original vote. Although, i guess the gift to germany concept could be implemeneted on a smaller scale. maybe medialanum and italy if it turns out we cant afford it?
Also CULL, they also have arretium in the ukraine, that city in poland, and they have the possibility of retaking ravenaa from the vikings (an offensive on ravenna would explain the lack of troops in neapolis, which is nearby), as well as advancing further against russia. We are not sure of any of this. It is all speculation, as we have no real judge of rome troops and where they are. For all we know they are all stacked in the capital about to comeafter us once we get there.
Also ive seens ai's vassalize to each other wuite a bit, but i play warlords. that might make quite a difference.
Whosit if you wish to support my plan then i will revert to my original vote. Although, i guess the gift to germany concept could be implemeneted on a smaller scale. maybe medialanum and italy if it turns out we cant afford it?
Also CULL, they also have arretium in the ukraine, that city in poland, and they have the possibility of retaking ravenaa from the vikings (an offensive on ravenna would explain the lack of troops in neapolis, which is nearby), as well as advancing further against russia. We are not sure of any of this. It is all speculation, as we have no real judge of rome troops and where they are. For all we know they are all stacked in the capital about to comeafter us once we get there.
Also ive seens ai's vassalize to each other wuite a bit, but i play warlords. that might make quite a difference.
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
Sorry, I already sent the plan. I can't take that back. I know this sounds like I'm gaming the system, but I'm not. The votes were clear as glass.
EDIT:
This isn't what I had intended anyhow. Next time, no taking back votes.
EDIT:
This isn't what I had intended anyhow. Next time, no taking back votes.
arya126
Squad Leader
I know that you will attack me on this decision once you figure out the X-Post. What Cull and I decided on fiftychat was what we chose. If Whosit did not pick #1 like I assume, I am honestly sorry guys.
I just sent the plan.
WAIT. WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????????????
Your kidding. Your not finishing your own vote. thats called cheating, and going back on your compromises. You DID hold the cote to see public opinion right? Well the public hasnt all spoken yet. You need to WAIT! Your cheating your own election goddamnit. I thought you meant to give all voices equal measure, and not close it early just because you yourself have voted!!??
arya126
Squad Leader
Really? Because i believe that you have now cheated choice 2 out of a vocitory, just because you dont like it. Isnt that the kind of thing you wanted to avoid in your term?
Im sorry, but the opposition is going to be pissed off (it might be just me, but im sure other people wont like you doing this either). You deliberatly stopped the election, just so you would win it.
Vote fair. LH said it had to be done by 4:00 tomorow. So wait until then. send another PM saying to wait. Surely LH will see this.
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
I need to log off soon, and won't have access until tomorrow at around 4:30.
Who else was left to vote, anyway? If Whosit says that he would not have picked 1, then I will try to make up for that. If he would have picked 1, then what Cull and I did was correct.
EDIT: Also, the reason I allowed taking back of votes was so that if you were out-debated into another option, you would change. Not so that you would change to win. And don't use red, plz. I thought it was LH for a moment.
Who else was left to vote, anyway? If Whosit says that he would not have picked 1, then I will try to make up for that. If he would have picked 1, then what Cull and I did was correct.
EDIT: Also, the reason I allowed taking back of votes was so that if you were out-debated into another option, you would change. Not so that you would change to win. And don't use red, plz. I thought it was LH for a moment.
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
"2 more minutes, mom!"
But I had to send it today. I have no time tomorrow.
See, this is how votes would have played out if one included everybody's true opinion, IMO.
#1-MN, Cull, Whosit
#2-Ravus, Aysee, Darth
#3-Arya
#4-CF
Who do you think in that list would have voted differently?
But I had to send it today. I have no time tomorrow.
See, this is how votes would have played out if one included everybody's true opinion, IMO.
#1-MN, Cull, Whosit
#2-Ravus, Aysee, Darth
#3-Arya
#4-CF
Who do you think in that list would have voted differently?
Lighthearter
President of the United States
You do know that I could easily wait longer? I was suggesting then because I wanted things to be fast. I can easily wait until later that night and play on Friday. However, if you want to stick to it. . . .
EDIT - And with Summer Camp tomorrow I can't realistically actually play the update until Friday anyway, soooo . . . .
- Lighthearter
arya126
Squad Leader
Then im sure that LH will allow an extra hour or two. you dont need to be here personally anyway. othe rpeople on here ( including me most likely) could easily shut it down for you.
My bad for red. I like the color, and it stands out.
Whosit hadnt offically voted yet. Anyway, you didnt say i couldnt do it in the circumstance. My vote change therefore counts. Deal with it. My plan only adds an aspect to choice 2 anyway. they are very similar. Surely it doesnt confuse you as to why i did it.
Close it tomorow, or i will ask LH if this opposition to closing this early is enough to call for a vote of no confidence. I am not trying to be a 'terrorist'. i am only trying to get a fair election of plans here. Surely you can see the reasoning? Please dont stick to what you have declared final. you know that would be wrong. If i am correct, then even with whosit/MN/cull voting for it, the total for choice 1 is still only 3, compared to the count of 4 voting for choice 2.
So choice 2 wins. Unless you want to continue with your little 'scheme' here. I would be very dissapointed in you. i was starting to accept your way of presidency as acceptable to me. but this...this is showing me that even you will cheat your promises.
My bad for red. I like the color, and it stands out.
Whosit hadnt offically voted yet. Anyway, you didnt say i couldnt do it in the circumstance. My vote change therefore counts. Deal with it. My plan only adds an aspect to choice 2 anyway. they are very similar. Surely it doesnt confuse you as to why i did it.
Close it tomorow, or i will ask LH if this opposition to closing this early is enough to call for a vote of no confidence. I am not trying to be a 'terrorist'. i am only trying to get a fair election of plans here. Surely you can see the reasoning? Please dont stick to what you have declared final. you know that would be wrong. If i am correct, then even with whosit/MN/cull voting for it, the total for choice 1 is still only 3, compared to the count of 4 voting for choice 2.
So choice 2 wins. Unless you want to continue with your little 'scheme' here. I would be very dissapointed in you. i was starting to accept your way of presidency as acceptable to me. but this...this is showing me that even you will cheat your promises.
arya126
Squad Leader
Okay posts occured while typing my last post. But i stated before that i have changed my vote to #2. That breaks the tie.
see? I told you LH was reasonable. he will wait if you want him to.
see? I told you LH was reasonable. he will wait if you want him to.
Lighthearter
President of the United States
Sigh. All the times I postponed elections for people because of their needs didn't give it away? As long as I'm not actively disrespected or attacked and as long as I don't feel like I'm being taken for granted, I'm pretty accepting of people wanting a little more time
Still. Everyone, EV-ER-Y O-NE, as my mom would put it - TAKE A CHILL PILL. In the end, this is a fairly minor thing. I fail to see the logic of MN cheating it, but I also know it doesn't quite sit well with me. So, the answer is probably a "point of view" thing, or the gray area between black and white. Just stop the arguing.
And the person who uses red in this thread other then me will be punished with an on-the-spot promotion to divinity.
Wait . . . .
Make that a night of Barney songs and Justin Beiber solos
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