Rebuilding a dead civ...they hate you for it?

[MaxellSnow]

I usually play on continents, quickly cleaning up my own if there are two or three. I started out in a really bad place but managed to stabalize everything and lead in most categories besides military strength and tech. The remaining person on my continent is Askia with a huge military and tech advantage. He war dec'd me and after weathering his initial assault I started weaking his border cities, taking two city-states back and freeing them.

Between us is the remnants of Siam. I like to have a buffer zone as an early warning system of sorts, so after taking a city, I gave it back to Siam. Try to do a defensive pact, but he declined. Few turns later, Askia offers a deal I couldnt refuse and we are at peace so Siam only got one city back. Few turns later, a friendly Askia asks if I want to go to war against Siam. More turns, Siam is denoucning me, still no war.

If we liberate a civ and give them cites back shouldnt there be some sort of permenant defensive pact? or at least a forced defensive pact for 30 turns?

 

[Rydin_Nurdy]

Hmmmm so Siam in CiV is like France in the real world, give them Paris back after WWII and they are STILL SNOOTY!! Yes...I said snooty.

 

[bcaiko]

Well, they are forced to vote for you in the UN Victory, but -yes- because you have your military near them, borders, ect., a zombie AI is prone to not like you after it's freed from sweet, sweet death.

Maybe the upcoming patch will finally address this?

 

[Pisskop]

You killed Siam to bring him back? And besides, Siam is aghast at your warmongering ways. Let him simmer in his dank corner.

 

[Steelyglint]

I heard someone say that you have to capture their original capital to liberate them, which gives a negative diplomacy modifier equal but opposite to the positive modifier you get for liberating them, so they cancel out and they start hating you for other reasons.

 

[MaxellSnow]

You killed Siam to bring him back? And besides, Siam is aghast at your warmongering ways. Let him simmer in his dank corner.

No, Askia conquered all of Siam. Askia attacked me, I defended then blitzed his border cities that were city-states taken over and old Siam cities. I liberated all of them.

@Steelyglint- I do not think that is true.

Do you get a reputation as a warmonger if you get attacked?

 

[Pisskop]

Well... the first time I played I liberated Monty from Rome, and he loved me for it, despite our borders. In other games, I libed France (who I warred with frequently but did not take the capitol of) and he hated me. I just shrugged and he never Dowed me, although I do not know if it is because of his weak position or not. While in 'exile' civs do not tech up.

 

[snarzberry]

It comes down to your total modifiers positive and negative towards that civ and that civs flavour for how much they hate certain types of behaviour. Resurrecting gets you a big plus but it can be overcome by a host of negatives.

Siam has the highest warmonger hate flavour of all the civs in the game and is generally the easiest to get on your bad side.

 

[OrsonM]

Hmmmm so Siam in CiV is like France in the real world, give them Paris back after WWII and they are STILL SNOOTY!! Yes...I said snooty.

Bad baby boomer-age jokes should be severely moderated.

 

[Steelyglint]

@Steelyglint- I do not think that is true.

Why so?

 

[Glassmage]

of course it is true....


http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=438057

 

[Pisskop]

of course it is true....


http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=438057

"THE MORE YOU KNOW"
"THaNKS JOE!"

Truely ciV is flitty and marketed to the masses.

 

[King of Prussia]

I heard someone say that you have to capture their original capital to liberate them, which gives a negative diplomacy modifier equal but opposite to the positive modifier you get for liberating them, so they cancel out and they start hating you for other reasons.

I believe you can liberate any of their cities. In my last game France took over Siam and attacked me. I ended up taking back a few of Siams cities but didn't liberate him tho. Even though every City of his I took back did give me the option to liberate it.

 

[BobDole]

we liberate a civ and give them cites back shouldnt there be some sort of permenant defensive pact? or at least a forced defensive pact for 30 turns?

A defensive pact? In my opinion, no (I don't want to have to babysit them), but a positive modifier? Yes please. Bringing back dead civs is just a waste of time, because after 1 or 2 turns they are going to denounce you anyway and act y. This always results in me either killing them AGAIN (which angers everyone else, but whatever) or paying someone else to do it for me. I get so tired of their BS (No, I'm not expanding into your lands, I owned all of them before you even came back into the game! Shut up!)

 

[MaxellSnow]

of course it is true....


http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=438057

I was saying it was not true that you had to start with a capitol city to liberate a conquered civ. Even with the modifiers there is the benefit of a buffer zone between yourself and another war mongering civ.

I play with a minimum army and have to mobilize a force to turn away an invasion. That buffer zone allows me to get my units in pew pew range for the attack. It doesn't matter that the small fodder civ gets rolled again and again. Free xp for units when I free them again.

It is rare that things are set that I use this tactic but it still seems odd not to employ the military stylings of one of our world's super powers

 

[TPQ]

If we liberate a civ and give them cites back shouldnt there be some sort of permenant defensive pact? or at least a forced defensive pact for 30 turns?

What there should be (imo) is a temporary, massive positive modifier if you bring a Civ back from the dead. This could be 2x the standard deal period for your game speed (for example) and mean that the resurrected AI in question should act towards the player as if they're really grateful to them for a while. After the period the massive positive modifier ends, it could either end abruptly, or perhaps more realistically, degrade at a certain rate over the next two deal periods until only a small permanent positive modifier is left for the rest of the game.

In addition, giving back (selling for nothing) AI cities you've captured from a third party, back to their original owner, should give you a small permanent positive modifier per city returned.

These two changes would improve the game imo. When, or if they'll ever be implemented is another thing.

I understand where you're coming from, but we'll all just have to wait for this to be fixed and put up with it for now .

 

[apocalypse105]

What there should be (imo) is a temporary, massive positive modifier if you bring a Civ back from the dead. This could be 2x the standard deal period for your game speed (for example) and mean that the resurrected AI in question should act towards the player as if they're really grateful to them for a while. After the period the massive positive modifier ends, it could either end abruptly, or perhaps more realistically, degrade at a certain rate over the next two deal periods until only a small permanent positive modifier is left for the rest of the game.

In addition, giving back (selling for nothing) AI cities you've captured from a third party, back to their original owner, should give you a small permanent positive modifier per city returned.

These two changes would improve the game imo. When, or if they'll ever be implemented is another thing.

I understand where you're coming from, but we'll all just have to wait for this to be fixed and put up with it for now .

Those modifiers has no use the AI doesn't recognise them It calculates on numbers more military then you then he hates you..

 

[MaxellSnow]

Those modifiers has no use the AI doesn't recognise them It calculates on numbers more military then you then he hates you..

Which is sort of the point...even if the most military centric civ never attacks the most peace loving civ but liberates some of it's cities it should still net to be a positive longish term modifier.