Recommend your holy scripts for Abaddon to read :)

Abaddon

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CFC an The World argues a lot about religion.. so I've figured its worth my time reading some "holy" books, and see what all the fuss is about.

The problem is there are so many of them!

New Vs. Old Testament?
Whats the differences between Christian/Protestant/Catholic Bibles?
What about the Quran or other such books?


So yeah, preach to me Fanatics, and hey, you might yet convert me ;)

Preferably I would be interested in "modern" versions of these holy scripture, since they tend to be written archaically which would really bore me!
 
In seriousness, reading the Old and New Testaments are an important part of understanding Western culture. The first contains a lot of history, myth, and law, mixed with moral teachings. The second is more straightforward.

And the Book of Mormon really is an interesting read, in my opinion. It has ideas not seen elsewhere in Christianity about the nature of good and evil, and suffering, as well as specific doctrines about redemption and atonement.
 
Abaddon said:
eugh, im reporting my own thread guys.. i meant it to be serious.

Well, I tried. By the way, I hope to get good enough in Arabic sometime that I can read the Qur'an in the original. I am sort of interested in holy texts in general - some day I will tackle the Upanishads and Baghavad Gita and whatnot as well.
 
yeah thanks. I've taken what you said on board.. while i'll only be able to read english translations, i realise i will lose some meaning from that alone.
 
If we are going to recommend specific parts of the Bible (a better idea than tackling the whole thing) Ecclesiastes is good (and short), and I really like Ruth. Some of the Psalms are quite interesting as well.
 
My favorite book in the bible is James. Its short, and full of great stuff.

The Book of Mormon, like Eran said, even if one doesnt attempt to get spirtual fulfillment out of it, is still a pretty cool story (at least I think so).
 
Here's a good one.
Spoiler :

:devil: :rockon: :devil: :rockon: :devil: :rockon: :devil: :rockon:
Holy man open up your eyes
To the ways of the world you've been so blind
As the walls of religion come crashing down
How's the ignorance taste the second time around

Tell me how it feels knowing chaos will never end
Tell me what it's like when the celebration begins

Welcome to the horror of the revelation
Tell me what you think of your savior now
I reject all the biblical views of the truth
Dismiss it as the folklore of the times
I won't be force fed prophecies
From a book of untruths for the weakest mind
Join the new faith for the celebration
Cult of new faith fuels the devastation

Holy man come and worship me
I am all that you ever wanted to be
I'm the life of indulgence you never knew
The epitome of evil shining through

Tell me how it feels knowing chaos will never end
Tell me what it's like when the celebration begins

Welcome to the horror of the revelation
Tell me what you think of your savior now
I reject all the biblical views of the truth
Dismiss it as the folklore of the times
I won't be force fed prophecies
From a book of untruths for the weakest mind
I keep the bible in a pool of blood
So that none of its lies can affect me

This is new faith
A different way of life
Witness the shame
See for yourself the lies
I'll take the fight
Bring it every time, any time
Refuse to let them win
My heresy begins

Pray for life - wish for death
Pray for life - know in time you'll pray for death

Tear it away
It lives inside your mind
Silence the fear
That keeps you pure inside
Now you can see
Life's atrocities endlessly
Witness the miracle
Witness the miracle

Pray for life - wish for death
Pray for life - with every breath
You'll pray for death - you'll pray for death
Embrace new faith, embrace new faith
Yeah, new faith - yeah, new faith.
:band:
 
Im confused, what exactly is the bible? or does it change from religion to religion (christianity based ones)

Is old an new testament two parts to the bible?
 
Abaddon said:
eugh, im reporting my own thread guys.. i meant it to be serious.

Ah, sorry, you have a nice humerous streak that I enjoy and I thought that was the case here.

On a more serious note then, I'd encourage you to get the Jefferson Bible. Basically, Jefferson created his own bible that is strictly focused on what Christ did and said. He cross-checked/translated from various texts. Its pretty interesting.
 
Abaddon said:
Im confused, what exactly is the bible? or does it change from religion to religion (christianity based ones)

Is old an new testament two parts to the bible?

The Old Testament was written by Israelites in the centuries before Jesus, and deal largely with the nation of Israel. This is what the Jews consider the Bible.

The New Testament was written in the century after Jesus by the early Christians. It deals largely with the new Christian religion.

Christians use both the Old and New Testament and call it the "Bible". Catholics use the Apocrypha, which are books of uncertain origin written during Old Testament times. Mormons use the Bible as well as the Book of Mormon and several other books.
 
.Shane. said:
Ah, sorry, you have a nice humerous streak that I enjoy and I thought that was the case here.

:D thankyou, i know i am generally not a serious poster, and my turn of phrase did leave it quite open to abuse... dont worry about it.

Looks like theres lots more versions of these books than i realised! :eek:
 
.Shane. said:
On a more serious note then, I'd encourage you to get the Jefferson Bible. Basically, Jefferson created his own bible that is strictly focused on what Christ did and said. He cross-checked/translated from various texts. Its pretty interesting.
Hmm, I somehow have missed that (making a note to myself for search and bying). I have only read the Tolstoi version (he did the same thing, and of course the church cursed him).

I would say the Bible, Quran, all the holy books of all religions are good readings. Even better, try to get the idea behind the words and don't stick in words.

One of my favorites is the "Hermetic texts", written by Manetho (an Egyptian priest), that present the Egyptian theology. It is a very interesting cosmogony and a "quite deep" text. On the other hand, Silmarillion (by Tolkien) has an equally interesting cosmogony - but although it is almost holy for me, I doubt it can be considered holy enough :lol:.
 
Could you please read the Urantia book and sumarize it for us? That would be a great help, because I don't feel like reading it at all. Quite bulky.

EDIT: ummm. I guess slozenger got banned for opening the "where are the mods" thread. If you guys know anything about the Urantia book could you please enlighten the rest of us, clueless mortals?
 
Atheism has many sects and we simply don't believe in holy scripture. However, there are values we can set upon ourselves from other religions and philosophies. One of the philosophies I subscribe to is the idea of transhumanism. Transhumanism is the belief that one day science and technology will allow us as a species to become better and better until eventually we will become posthuman, living for centuries or even millenia with super-enhanced intelligence, motor skills, and immunity. Of course I don't expect this to happen overnight or even in the next two centuries but we are taking the steps toward it right now. You can find out more about transhumanism here:

http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/more/transhumanist-values/
 
My Holy Scripture


Abraham Lincoln said:
When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad. That’s my religion.
 
I realy only believe in the Bible as well as the doctrines and beliefs in the Catholic Church.

I honestly dont believe in The Book of Mormon, then again I am Catholic.
 
CivGeneral said:
I realy only believe in the Bible as well as the doctrines and beliefs in the Catholic Church.

I honestly dont believe in The Book of Mormon, then again I am Catholic.

Do you take the Bible literally?
 
Abaddon said:
Whats the differences between christian/protestant/catholic bibles?
What about the Quran or other suchs books.
There are parts in the Catholic Bible that are removed in the protestant bibles. The NKJ version is just an incompleate version of the true Bible. What the Protestants left out in their bibles are known as the Apocrypha.

The Apocrypha...

This is what the fundamentalists call the 7 books in Catholic Bibles that protestant Bibles do not have. Catholics call them 'Deuterocanonicals'. They are, Baruch, Judith, Sirach, Tobit, Wisdom, and 1 and 2 Maccabees. They also include parts of Daniel and Esther. There are many other books, called Apocrypha, by Catholics that are not considered inspired. I believe Protestants merely put those 7 books in the same pot and called them all Apocrypha.
 
John HSOG said:
Do you take the Bible literally?
That depends. If by literal you are refering to the intention of the author. Then yes I take the Bible literally. I believe Tim Gray from Catholic Educators Resource Center can better explain than I can:

Tim Gray said:
Affirming that the entirety of Scripture is to be taken literally is a confession of fundamentalism, which is one of the few things our pluralistic society cannot tolerate. Answering in the negative implies that you may not be taking the Bible seriously at all, questioning not only the historical credibility of the crossing of the Red Sea, but also that of the empty tomb. Some questions cannot be answered by a simple yes or no, precisely because some questions are themselves problems.

Word for word

Most often what our culture means by the phrase "reading Scripture literally," would be more correctly rendered "reading Scripture literalistically," that is, taking each word at face value apart from its literary context. Such an approach drains the life out of language; such readers leech the meaning out of Scripture. For example, a literalistic take on the phrase, "Her eyes are as bright as diamonds," would claim that her eyes provided a similar luminescence as diamonds. Such a wooden reading misses the poetic thrust of the simile — the radiant beauty that flashes through her eyes.

An interpretation guided by a one-dimensional view of words may not only fail to glean the true meaning, but may reap the tares of a wrong-headed interpretation. For instance, the poetic comparison inspired from romantic courtship, where the poet sings of his beloved's beautiful hair, saying, "Your hair is like a flock of goats, moving down the slopes of Gilead" (Song 4:1), can easily be misunderstood if the metaphor is not read correctly. By comparing her hair to a flock of black goats cascading down a mountain, he is thinking of her rich, black hair; a comparison of color, not scent, is the aim of the simile.1 In this case, missing the metaphoric expression leads to an interpretation that is diametrically opposed to the intended meaning of the passage. I can tell you that it took me some explaining to convince the high school students I taught years ago that this image was flattering!

What do you mean?

Context is crucial, and that is why knowing the literary context of what we're reading is vitally important. In Scripture, God speaks through men in a human fashion. In order to understand what God is communicating, we must carefully search for the intention of the sacred authors. That is why the Church stresses the importance of knowing the literary genres of Scripture: "In determining the intention of the sacred writers, attention must be paid, inter alia, to 'literary forms for the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts,' and in other forms of literary expression" (Vatican II, Dei Verbum, no. 12). In short, we are not to take the Bible literalistically, but literarily.

Should Catholics take the Bible literally? If by literal we are referring to the intention of the author, then yes, Catholics do take the Bible literally. For such a literal reading respects the author's intention — it reads poetry poetically, metaphors metaphorically, and history historically. The aim of interpreting the Bible is to discern what the author intended by the words he used. For example, when we read that Jesus says it is better to lose a member of one's body than to sin, we understand that Jesus is teaching about the gravity of sin through hyperbole. We do not take Him as literally commanding dismemberment. Some misreadings can be more costly than others, which is why Origen's literalistic reading of these words of Jesus (Origen supposedly castrated himself) is an example of the consequences of interpreting words without regard for their rhetorical genre.

Reading literally should mean reading for the author's intention. In our culture, however, there is much ambiguity in the use of the word "literal." Indeed, many will misunderstand our meaning if we claim to read the Bible for its literal meaning, taking that as a slavish bondage to the surface value of Scripture's words. A more winsome way to phrase one's response is to say that we do not take the Bible literally but rather literarily. In that way we avoid the pitfalls of literalism and still retain historical accuracy, such as the Resurrection. We must hold together the semantic range of the words used, the author's intention, and the larger context of both the words and the author. In doing so we will be poised to read Scripture in "3-D," open to all its potent literary meaning stemming from the author's words and their context.

Keep it in context

By the author's context we mean the history, culture, and real-life setting of the human author. It makes a difference to know that Luke is a Gentile, that Matthew is a Jew, and that Paul is a Jew with a Gentile mission. The context of the words is the literary genre. When reading that the lion will lie down with the lamb, it is important to know how the prophetic genre employs both narrative and poetry, and that Isaiah is a master of metaphor (in case you were waiting for sheep and lions to hang out together).

In reading Scripture there are four cardinal genres to recognize. First is narrative, which tells the story of God's people. Second is what I call liturgical, which includes sacred sacrifices (Leviticus) and songs (Psalms). Third is law, which includes the legal and juridical norms (Deuteronomy), as well as the more customary law embodied in the Wisdom literature (Proverbs, Sirach, etc.). Finally there is the prophetic genre, which is expressed in both prose and poetry (Isaiah, Zechariah), and even apocalyptic (Daniel). Diverse as these genres are, and as scattered as they are throughout Scripture, there is logic behind them that gives them coherence and order that we'll now briefly outline. It remains for the following four articles to delve into each genre in more depth.

Scripture begins with narrative: the story of creation, Adam, and the Patriarchs. The story — the events of God acting within the history of Israel — gives way to liturgy. For example, the story of the Exodus, with its account of God's marvelous deeds performed on behalf of Israel, leads to liturgical praise and thanksgiving. The redemption won by the crossing of the Red Sea (the narrative told in Exodus 14) leads Israel to worship God with the song of the sea (liturgy of Exodus 15). The goal of the Exodus story is liturgy: Israel's Exodus turns into a pilgrimage to Sinai. The liturgical worship at Sinai (cf. Ex. 19, 24) leads to the giving of laws (cf. Ex. 20-23, 25-31). The Exodus itself ends with the giving of the Law of Moses in the Book of Deuteronomy at the end of the 40 years of wilderness wanderings. Law defines Israel's covenant relationship with God, and when that Law is broken God sends His messengers, the prophets, to indict Israel concerning their failure to keep the Law. The prophets give what is known as a covenant lawsuit, which is a reminder to Israel of how they have rebelled against the covenant laws (like Deuteronomy), whereupon they announce that God will therefore take away the blessings of the covenant and punish Israel with the curses instead.

Narrative (story) leads to liturgy, which celebrates what God has done in saving and maintaining Israel (and her story). From the context of liturgical worship comes Israel's covenant obligation, which is expressed through law. In light of the Law, the prophets convict the people when they sin and are unfaithful to the God of the covenant, who has saved them according to their narrative, a narrative that is remembered and celebrated in their liturgy. The prophets then speak of how the imminent judgment of Israel's infidelity will be followed by a new story — a new exodus that will be fulfilled in the story of Jesus. And then the new narrative of Jesus' life, death, and Resurrection will give way to a new liturgy, law, and prophecy.

In subsequent articles, we will see how taking the Bible literarily, and seeing how these cardinal genres fit together, makes for a dynamic reading of Scripture.

1 Women of this region all have black hair. Most of the goats at that time in that area were black. Every commentator on this passage notes that the comparison is not to abstract beauty, but to her black hair. The Hebrews are never given to abstract notions. See Genesis 30:31-35 for examples of black goats. See also The New Bible Commentary, edited by D. Guthrie and J.A. Motyer, 3rd ed., (New York: Guideposts, 1970), 583; and Roland E. Murphy, Jerome Biblical Commentary (Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice Hall, 1968), 508.
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