Referendum on Scottish Independence

[Traitorfish]

Do your neighbours agree that Lwow belongs to Poland?

Somehow that has yet to come up.

 

[Pangur Bán]

And I read the same exact words and concepts leveled against me when I advocate for more meaningful power at the level of the states rather than in Washington. So I'm not really sure anyone is going to have "noble cause" in something like this, are they? Just the cause they think serves themselves better.

Don't follow your logic, but if you're advocating states rights you're screwed, noble cause or not.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Somehow that has yet to come up.

You can ask them next time and amaze them with your geographic knowledge of the PLC.

 

[Farm Boy]

Don't follow your logic, but if you're advocating states rights you're screwed, noble cause or not.

If that's the sentiment you toss my way, let me return it in kind.

 

[Pangur Bán]

If that's the sentiment you toss my way, let me return it in kind.

Just being a realistic, don't take it personally. Local autonomy is great, it's better for people to have power on the ground. Americans are great people, but the US govt is a corporate guild with power beyond anything else on the planet. Arguing states rights is like Orcs asking Sauron to grant more autonomy to particular industrial rock caves.

Scottish independence may be less than very likely at present, but increasing state autonomy in the US is political fantasy (noble as it may be).

 

[Farm Boy]

I think you just told me not to take it personally, then compared me to an orc in service to Sauron. This isn't going well for you.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Well, if you're determined to read stuff that negatively, feel free, don't expect to take up any more of my time though.

 

[Farm Boy]

Have fun storming the castle!

 

[bhsup]

I think you just told me not to take it personally, then compared me to an orc in service to Sauron. This isn't going well for you.

Racist.

 

[Mega Tsunami]

So, a bunch of celebrities, mostly English, mostly C-list or below, have issued a public letter pleading with the Scots to stay in the good old Union.
…
They must think we're a pack of bloody halfwits.

Unfortunately an awful lot of us throughout the whole UK are not politically minded and celebrities such as Simon Cowell telling people to vote No could (sadly) have a material effect on the outcome (hence the OTT bashing they received from the cybernats). Imagine if (say) One Direction said something to all those 16 & 17 year olds about to vote for the first time…..

The second one.
(There's even an argument, maybe tenuous but not unreasonable, that leaving is the best thing we can do for fellow arse-end-of-UKers, because shattering the rump-Empire will discredit an already wounded and humiliated establishment, opening the door for a serious reform movement. It comes down to whether the English and Welsh want change as much as the Scots do.)

Not sure about the Welsh but we English don’t seem to want much change. A few years ago there was that poll in the NE (of England) asking if they wanted to devolve and it was defeated massively (? 80-20). However English devolution will have to be addressed if there is a No vote of course. We cannot continue with the so-called ‘West Lothian’ question hanging about. Obviously it has had to be ignored for some time now so as to not offend the over sensitive Scots. But post 18th Sept…..

 

[Mega Tsunami]

At least Ben Fogle is a step forward from the gun boat and bayoneted face.
But to the serious point, indeed, the culture seems to breed a sense of entitled superiority and self-awareness-lacking. The feeble misfit folk of Scotchprovince in seeking to regain independence and keep the oil for themselves are showing complete ingratitude to British beneficence and greatness. Their press tells us nationalism is bad while bombarding us with flag waving and symbols of military triumphalism.

No, I think they just like Scotland and the Scottish enough to ask you not to divorce us.

But I do think you should stop going on about ‘the oil’ as if it matters that much. The oil is a dwindling asset that is going to cost more and more to extract. Don’t forget, the £7bn (I think) we pay Scotland pa via the Barnett formula will come to a stop on independence. The Scots would be wise to keep taking the inflation proof steady as clockwork Barnett formula rather than the vagaries of a costly dwindling asset which will need decommissioning one day. Long term it would be in rUK’s best interest to get rid of both the Barnett formula and the oil (Devolve them?).
Not that Independence is about being wise of course; it is all about Braveheart. (Which I get btw)

BBC Scotland's budget for many years now has been captured by HQ through a process of internal colonialism ... the 'regional funds' of BBC Scotland are now spent by a small HQ cabal with nothing more than BBC Scotland branding. If you've wondered why you don't get many Scottish football matches or Andy Stewart like stuff like you got in the 90s, that's why (this has affected all BBC regions btw, not just BBC Scotland).

Or could it be because Scottish football is rubbish? I reckon (though they might deny it) that even the Scots prefer watching the English PL rather than the Scottish PL on Match of the Day.

 

[Pangur Bán]

But I do think you should stop going on about ‘the oil’ as if it matters that much. The oil is a dwindling asset that is going to cost more and more to extract. Don’t forget, the £7bn (I think) we pay Scotland pa via the Barnett formula will come to a stop on independence. The Scots would be wise to keep taking the inflation proof steady as clockwork Barnett formula rather than the vagaries of a costly dwindling asset which will need decommissioning one day. Long term it would be in rUK’s best interest to get rid of both the Barnett formula and the oil (Devolve them?).
Not that Independence is about being wise of course; it is all about Braveheart. (Which I get btw)

Yeah, Scotland only nation where oil would be bad for it, Scots who want independence only want it because Mel Gibson told them. You really think you're the first Daily Mail reading, BBC watching Brit to spout this stuff?

No, Scots independence supporters will go on about their oil, and London propaganda won't shut them up.

Or could it be because Scottish football is rubbish? I reckon (though they might deny it) that even the Scots prefer watching the English PL rather than the Scottish PL on Match of the Day.

All Scottish things are inferior. We hear this all the time. That's one of the reasons we want out. We want to enjoy the world as a free person rather than be stuck in a dirty house with a 'partner' (to use your metaphor) who takes your money and tries to keep you in control through psychological abuse.

Anyway, SPL matches don't get shown on Saturdays any more. When I was a kid you saw all the SPL matches on Saturday night, and two or three English matches. BBC put a stop to the SPL stuff, moved it to Monday and now show us EPL and lower league English matches Sat, Sun and sometimes Monday too. Few Scots watched the EPL regularly until about 10 years ago, now you are right, EPL probably as popular. Put that down to the greatness of England its glorious Empire if you want.

 

[Mega Tsunami]

Yeah, Scotland only nation where oil would be bad for it, Scots who want independence only want it because Mel Gibson told them. You really think you're the first Daily Mail reading, BBC watching Brit to spout this stuff?

No, Scots independence supporters will go on about their oil, and London propaganda won't shut them up.

You missed my point entirely. Oil would be important to iScotland but (the loss thereof) would not be, over time, to rUK. You might as well bang on about the loss of Ben Nevis to the UK. That would matter more probably.

All Scottish things are inferior. We hear this all the time. That's one of the reasons we want out. We want to enjoy the world as a free person rather than be stuck in a dirty house with a 'partner' (to use your metaphor) who takes your money and tries to keep you in control through psychological abuse.

Wow, are you saying you have an inferior sense of humour as well then. It was only a little joke about football after all. Sorry if it offended you.

 

[Pangur Bán]

You missed my point entirely. Oil would be important to iScotland but (the loss thereof) would not be, over time, to rUK. You might as well bang on about the loss of Ben Nevis to the UK. That would matter more probably.

I suppose over a long period of time nothing is a problem.

Wow, are you saying you have an inferior sense of humour as well then. It was only a little joke about football after all. Sorry if it offended you.

I have a sense of humour. 'Humor' intended to establish dominance is nothing better than slur. When you make good jokes that are there to establish laughter in equality, you'll see my sense of humour. In the mean time don't direct scoffing at a weaker population group and then whine when you aren't hailed by them as the next Larry David.

 

[Farm Boy]

I have a sense of humour. 'Humor' intended to establish dominance is nothing better than slur.

You seem pretty sensitive considering what you're willing to toss out. Then make it seem like the orc should apologize for his tender sensibilities.

 

[Mega Tsunami]

I have a sense of humour. 'Humor' intended to establish dominance is nothing better than slur. When you make good jokes that are there to establish laughter in equality, you'll see my sense of humour. In the mean time don't direct scoffing at a weaker population group and then whine when you aren't hailed by them as the next Larry David.

And all this bile because I said Scottish Football was rubbish? And that was despite my apology.

Maybe this explains it, from a former editor of The Scotsman.

This weekend, if you hear a Scottish Nationalist on your radio being grumpy, or see a Yes-type on the telly losing the plot, it is probably because of that poll. Having waited for several generations for this opportunity, they must fear that it is being squandered. In such circumstances, people can lash out. There are already signs of growing concern in the Yes campaign, particularly over the performance of their leader.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100282923/the-scottish-nationalists-are-in-trouble/

 

[Pangur Bán]

Yeah, the Daily Telegraph is the standard bearer of UK Tory loons (Scotsman is an Edinburgh version), digging even more of a hole for yourself.

 

[Traitorfish]

"Unionist has Unionist opinion, thereby proving Unionism correct." Just the sort of quality journalism we've come to expect from the Telegraph.

I think you just told me not to take it personally, then compared me to an orc in service to Sauron. This isn't going well for you.

You don't think maybe you're taking an off-the-cuff analogy a little too personally?

 

[Farm Boy]

You don't think maybe you're taking an off-the-cuff analogy a little too personally?

I can compare people to monkeys because they're clearly not monkeys, right? Thus holds the comparison to an orc because I'm clearly not an orc? I mean they're even not real! Especially if you toss in the ol' "don't take this personally, here's a personal insult."

No, I'm not really bent about this, I'm just kinda "WTH" about it.

Either way, I appreciate the time you spent answering my questions.

 

[bhsup]

FWIW he may have been calling you an outdoor recreation center. That certainly has appeal depending on who is recreating.