Shaitan
der Besucher
APN made close to half of that amount so far this game, dis. It's not unreasonable.
Refining the Rules
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disorganizer
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Thats why i proposed taxing the collection of money 
I just see donsigs account growing and growing
I just see donsigs account growing and growing
i dont see what is unreasonable about limiting people from owning too many bussinesses. yes, i admit is intended for a few people, but both of us know that yo... i mean 'anyone' can make PLENTY of money with 3 bussinesses and shares in 10.
my point: people should be able to have many bussiness, but not so many. this is to prevent a very elite group having too big of a monopoly. i have no problem with anyone making tons of money.
my point: people should be able to have many bussiness, but not so many. this is to prevent a very elite group having too big of a monopoly. i have no problem with anyone making tons of money.
Great Iguanaman
Stuck in Limbo
no one does jdd2007 
To clarify my point on the loans:
I propose that any business that gives out loans should be out of someones own pocket. If i start a loan business then ishould have to give poeple money out of my own pocket unstead of just making up miney to give to them like so many people do.
Another Proposal:
There definately needs to be a set of rules that everyone in the RPG realm needs to follow, which is what we are currently argueing about. I think that after we have set rules that we all agree about, which could take a while, that we appoint a new position to make sure all of these points are enforced. This is necessary so that we dont all argue about it when someone disobeys one of the new rules, someone simply says no, you arent allowed to do that, stop it or you willl be prosecuted. So, i think after we all agree on these rules, then we agree on a title, and appoint and elect someone to that title. Thank you for your time, and please give me some feedback,
The Great Iguanaman
To clarify my point on the loans:
I propose that any business that gives out loans should be out of someones own pocket. If i start a loan business then ishould have to give poeple money out of my own pocket unstead of just making up miney to give to them like so many people do.
Another Proposal:
There definately needs to be a set of rules that everyone in the RPG realm needs to follow, which is what we are currently argueing about. I think that after we have set rules that we all agree about, which could take a while, that we appoint a new position to make sure all of these points are enforced. This is necessary so that we dont all argue about it when someone disobeys one of the new rules, someone simply says no, you arent allowed to do that, stop it or you willl be prosecuted. So, i think after we all agree on these rules, then we agree on a title, and appoint and elect someone to that title. Thank you for your time, and please give me some feedback,
The Great Iguanaman
Strider
In Retrospect
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- 8,984
Originally posted by Great Iguanaman
no one does jdd2007
To clarify my point on the loans:
I propose that any business that gives out loans should be out of someones own pocket. If i start a loan business then ishould have to give poeple money out of my own pocket unstead of just making up miney to give to them like so many people do.
Another Proposal:
There definately needs to be a set of rules that everyone in the RPG realm needs to follow, which is what we are currently argueing about. I think that after we have set rules that we all agree about, which could take a while, that we appoint a new position to make sure all of these points are enforced. This is necessary so that we dont all argue about it when someone disobeys one of the new rules, someone simply says no, you arent allowed to do that, stop it or you willl be prosecuted. So, i think after we all agree on these rules, then we agree on a title, and appoint and elect someone to that title. Thank you for your time, and please give me some feedback,
The Great Iguanaman
I think that it should be ALL of the current RPG workers woh enforce those rules.
donsig
Low level intermediary
Originally posted by disorganizer
Thats why i proposed taxing the collection of money
I just see donsigs account growing and growing
Well, what's wrong with that? Can I help it if I don't want a big castle up here in the fronzen north? I've already got my eyes on the wheat fields on the east coast. I hear it's nice and warm down there.
I have been trying to suggest that we allow start-up fees and *taxes* to be spent on other businesses. As a concrete example, the Rebel Pub, which has employees should be able pay it's employees with part of it's taxes. The pub, which is also a brewerery, should be able to spend part of it's taxes on buying hops (or whatever) from a farmer. We may nee d to set limits on how much of the taxes can be spent on these things but this seems to me to be a good way to keep gold in circulation.
disorganizer
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Good point donsig ;-)
I second that idea.
I second that idea.
Shaitan
der Besucher
I wonder if mods have a post-size-limit
Yup, same as everybody else's.
Leave it to Shaitan to coomoe up with a long post.
Well, it was a lot of stuff to comment on. Here's another one!
* to the "sphere of influence": good idea, if also used for citizen groups. already in the last game, it was proposed to have the citizen groups build "provincial headquarters" in each province where they have members. a group could only get members from provinces where they have a branch.
Yes, it would also apply to citizen groups.
* we should urgently invent some evilness into the rpg. it will get boring if all is fine and nice and properly sorted out. we need some bad guy around (and i dont mean double-registerers with that). having robbers and police would be a good rpg experience. like if the number of robbers in a city outnumbers the number of policmen by 2 then each tc a shop can be robbed (or a local bank). (im not good at inventing rpg rules i must admit).
Absolutely. I've been toying with different random systems for "events" but don't have anything workable yet. More ideas on this would be very welcome.
I believe we should try to find away to open up jobs WITHOUT having people to open up a business to get more money. Through I think this might change when some business's start to expand and needs more people to help out.
Quite right. This is what I'm doing right now. I've hired Octavian X for a couple of things and BCLG100 for quite a few positions.
I have been trying to suggest that we allow start-up fees and *taxes* to be spent on other businesses. As a concrete example, the Rebel Pub, which has employees should be able pay it's employees with part of it's taxes.
Also a good idea and fits in with the previous comment. It would be an incentive for businesses to hire people. They get help running the business and don't lose as much money while doing so. I suggest that up to half of COGS should be applicable to salaries.
Also, we should not go too much into the shareholding. It looses its interesting bit fast
Shareholding is a fantastic way for people to get a higher income. Buy shares of a good performing company and you get more cash each chat.
I think shareholding is a good way for the future RPG kings (most likely Donsig and Shaitan) to get money up to buy out business's and supply jobs to the rest of the populace.
I probably won't buy up businesses. donsig either. If you look how we spend money it's generally on investing in new businesses, partnerships, what have you. Those investments help other people to make money as well as ourselves. I'm just as happy with a partner doing the work as an employee doing it. I also spend a big chunk on fun stuff, and all that goes back to the economy.
i dont see what is unreasonable about limiting people from owning too many bussinesses. yes, i admit is intended for a few people, but both of us know that yo... i mean 'anyone' can make PLENTY of money with 3 bussinesses and shares in 10.
my point: people should be able to have many bussiness, but not so many. this is to prevent a very elite group having too big of a monopoly. i have no problem with anyone making tons of money.
Besides being prejudicial and patently unfair, it's also an economic stifler. Every business that donsig and I get up and running is another oportunity for partners/shareholders/employees. It also wouldn't work as you intend. donsig has started up exactly one business on his own.
I propose that any business that gives out loans should be out of someones own pocket. If i start a loan business then ishould have to give poeple money out of my own pocket unstead of just making up miney to give to them like so many people do.
Just like a real bank, the Bank of Valhalla loans out the money in its clients' accounts. It's not coming from nowhere and there's a limit to how much the bank will/can loan out.
Yup, same as everybody else's.
Leave it to Shaitan to coomoe up with a long post.
Well, it was a lot of stuff to comment on. Here's another one!
* to the "sphere of influence": good idea, if also used for citizen groups. already in the last game, it was proposed to have the citizen groups build "provincial headquarters" in each province where they have members. a group could only get members from provinces where they have a branch.
Yes, it would also apply to citizen groups.
* we should urgently invent some evilness into the rpg. it will get boring if all is fine and nice and properly sorted out. we need some bad guy around (and i dont mean double-registerers with that). having robbers and police would be a good rpg experience. like if the number of robbers in a city outnumbers the number of policmen by 2 then each tc a shop can be robbed (or a local bank). (im not good at inventing rpg rules i must admit).
Absolutely. I've been toying with different random systems for "events" but don't have anything workable yet. More ideas on this would be very welcome.
I believe we should try to find away to open up jobs WITHOUT having people to open up a business to get more money. Through I think this might change when some business's start to expand and needs more people to help out.
Quite right. This is what I'm doing right now. I've hired Octavian X for a couple of things and BCLG100 for quite a few positions.
I have been trying to suggest that we allow start-up fees and *taxes* to be spent on other businesses. As a concrete example, the Rebel Pub, which has employees should be able pay it's employees with part of it's taxes.
Also a good idea and fits in with the previous comment. It would be an incentive for businesses to hire people. They get help running the business and don't lose as much money while doing so. I suggest that up to half of COGS should be applicable to salaries.
Also, we should not go too much into the shareholding. It looses its interesting bit fast
Shareholding is a fantastic way for people to get a higher income. Buy shares of a good performing company and you get more cash each chat.
I think shareholding is a good way for the future RPG kings (most likely Donsig and Shaitan) to get money up to buy out business's and supply jobs to the rest of the populace.
I probably won't buy up businesses. donsig either. If you look how we spend money it's generally on investing in new businesses, partnerships, what have you. Those investments help other people to make money as well as ourselves. I'm just as happy with a partner doing the work as an employee doing it. I also spend a big chunk on fun stuff, and all that goes back to the economy.
i dont see what is unreasonable about limiting people from owning too many bussinesses. yes, i admit is intended for a few people, but both of us know that yo... i mean 'anyone' can make PLENTY of money with 3 bussinesses and shares in 10.
my point: people should be able to have many bussiness, but not so many. this is to prevent a very elite group having too big of a monopoly. i have no problem with anyone making tons of money.
Besides being prejudicial and patently unfair, it's also an economic stifler. Every business that donsig and I get up and running is another oportunity for partners/shareholders/employees. It also wouldn't work as you intend. donsig has started up exactly one business on his own.
I propose that any business that gives out loans should be out of someones own pocket. If i start a loan business then ishould have to give poeple money out of my own pocket unstead of just making up miney to give to them like so many people do.
Just like a real bank, the Bank of Valhalla loans out the money in its clients' accounts. It's not coming from nowhere and there's a limit to how much the bank will/can loan out.
Great Iguanaman
Stuck in Limbo
To solve the problem about how to give people more jobs:
I. Units
A. When any unit is built, there is a citizen who will be selected to be that unit.
B. If a unit is built that defends a city, then there is no counterpart.
C. When that unit dies/becomes defensive, then the citizen just retires, but can be hired again.
D. If a unit occupies a city then the counterpart gets a small bonus.
II. Management
A. When the military becomes to big, then generals will be appointed to comand a certain number of units.
B. Another job will be a unit monitor. He/she will monitor all of the units and who is there counterpart.
This is just an idea to create more jobs. Feel free to give me some constructive criticism.
The Great Iguanaman
I. Units
A. When any unit is built, there is a citizen who will be selected to be that unit.
B. If a unit is built that defends a city, then there is no counterpart.
C. When that unit dies/becomes defensive, then the citizen just retires, but can be hired again.
D. If a unit occupies a city then the counterpart gets a small bonus.
II. Management
A. When the military becomes to big, then generals will be appointed to comand a certain number of units.
B. Another job will be a unit monitor. He/she will monitor all of the units and who is there counterpart.
This is just an idea to create more jobs. Feel free to give me some constructive criticism.
The Great Iguanaman
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2001
- Messages
- 3,136
I just got an idea, not sure if it has been mentioned. The bank uses it's money to pay the govt. officials their salaries and other things so that the money isn't just appearing out of nowhere.
I do think that the current tax system needs to be redone.
We also need people to actually SPEND their money!!!!!
I've used my 1000 to buy several things including food from the eatery, legal help, a newsletter, and drinks from the pub. I've also donated 50g to the war group. The economy will start to look like america's current economy(completely stagnant w/everyone afraid to invest)
SPEND!! SPEND!! Get a job! Spend some more!!!!
Oh yeah, if there is going to be a requirement on what you need to buy per turn, I will require a 200% raise if I am made item manager as this will be a crap load of work unless we hire someone to go over the thread to make sure people bought the necessary items. I, however, hate the idea, it's too much work to worry about it and someone has to track it all anyways.
I do think that the current tax system needs to be redone.
We also need people to actually SPEND their money!!!!!
I've used my 1000 to buy several things including food from the eatery, legal help, a newsletter, and drinks from the pub. I've also donated 50g to the war group. The economy will start to look like america's current economy(completely stagnant w/everyone afraid to invest)
SPEND!! SPEND!! Get a job! Spend some more!!!!
Oh yeah, if there is going to be a requirement on what you need to buy per turn, I will require a 200% raise if I am made item manager as this will be a crap load of work unless we hire someone to go over the thread to make sure people bought the necessary items. I, however, hate the idea, it's too much work to worry about it and someone has to track it all anyways.
disorganizer
Deity
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gonzo:
exactly my point. thats why i hired people for the pub from the beginning with a fixed percentage of income.
shaitan:
i think we should offer the following possinility for the taxes:
* the income-reduction should be subtracted from the income of a company after salaries have been payed, not from the salesprices
* if a business goes under a certain g/tc level, no taxes are payed.
now to an example for that:
the pub sells a old drink for 100 gold.
splitting schema is 10% to bookkeeping, 40% employees, 50%owner
now:
20gold to income-cut, 80 is net income
8 to bookkeeping, 32 to employees, 40 to owner
my proposal:
10 to bookkeeping, 40 to employees
50 is income, 10gold to income-cut, 40 is net income
the net-income goes directly to owner/shareholders/biz-account
good, eh?
another idea:
of shareselling companies, tax not the income but the output of the shares!
exactly my point. thats why i hired people for the pub from the beginning with a fixed percentage of income.
shaitan:
i think we should offer the following possinility for the taxes:
* the income-reduction should be subtracted from the income of a company after salaries have been payed, not from the salesprices
* if a business goes under a certain g/tc level, no taxes are payed.
now to an example for that:
the pub sells a old drink for 100 gold.
splitting schema is 10% to bookkeeping, 40% employees, 50%owner
now:
20gold to income-cut, 80 is net income
8 to bookkeeping, 32 to employees, 40 to owner
my proposal:
10 to bookkeeping, 40 to employees
50 is income, 10gold to income-cut, 40 is net income
the net-income goes directly to owner/shareholders/biz-account
good, eh?
another idea:
of shareselling companies, tax not the income but the output of the shares!
Shaitan
der Besucher
Take this idea one step further (and a bit easier). Money paid for COGS (taxes) can be used to pay expenses (bookkeeping, employees, suppliers, etc) instead of going to the big cloud.
You sell a drink for 100g. 20g is normally COGS. Instead of going to the cloud that 20g may be kept as long as you are paying at least that much in expenses.
More realistic would be to allow half of COGS to be kept to pay expenses but that adds to the complexity and the incentive to hire employees is only half as great.
You sell a drink for 100g. 20g is normally COGS. Instead of going to the cloud that 20g may be kept as long as you are paying at least that much in expenses.
More realistic would be to allow half of COGS to be kept to pay expenses but that adds to the complexity and the incentive to hire employees is only half as great.
Shaitan
der Besucher
That's what happens somewhere inside our virtual cloud of the economy. There's no need to track exactly how it happens.
@Great Iguanaman - Interesting idea but it's a lot of recordkeeping and is essentialy just giving people more salary for no work. Also, there's no way we can track the units unless the President itemizes every unit move.
disorganizer
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I would prefer having it only for salaries, as that would bring people to money instead of businesses. with people in more money, also businesses would profit. but in the end i dont care, so i second your proposal
disorganizer
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another step further:
all citizen groups registering for the rpg should be allowed 10g/tc per registered group member into their group-account. the group can spend that money in a matter they like (the group itself can decide whether to vote for it, have the owner decide, have the leader decide...).
this would lead to groups also spending more money.
all citizen groups registering for the rpg should be allowed 10g/tc per registered group member into their group-account. the group can spend that money in a matter they like (the group itself can decide whether to vote for it, have the owner decide, have the leader decide...).
this would lead to groups also spending more money.
Plexus
Architeuthidae puericomedentis
10g per t/c? don't you think that is a bit excessive?
disorganizer
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no. citizens get 100g/tc. with 10g/tc and maybe 20 members, this would get them 200g/tc to purchase things. and also, they will propably have to pay their leaders
and pay for their headquarters (they will need one of them in each province!).
and pay for their headquarters (they will need one of them in each province!).
Strider
In Retrospect
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Originally posted by disorganizer
no. citizens get 100g/tc. with 10g/tc and maybe 20 members, this would get them 200g/tc to purchase things. and also, they will propably have to pay their leaders
and pay for their headquarters (they will need one of them in each province!).
I agree with this..... Through I think it should be lower.... maybe 5gpt each member.
Stuck_as_a_Mac
Aptenodytes forsteri
you know, were getting some great ideas here. we should type up a final proposal and see if we can get it implemented. it would be a shame to have this thread go to waste, seeing as we have made up some good ideas.
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