Relationships between AI Civs

[Photi]

The AI may not know what player really thinks, but game can still attribute values to actions AI has taken towards player civ.

AI sent delegation to player, +3. AI broke promise to player, -12 or -21 or whatever the value.

If player is Victoria, maybe game attributes pre programmed and random agendas to Victoria the player. A good AI would have to have way of calculating consequences of actions toward player even though player is free to feel in whatever way he or she wants.

For the player, AI attitude towards player is determined by AI agenda and actions of player, player attitude towards AI civ can be calculated in same way.

 

[nzcamel]

Maybe...yet it was very early in the game; well, from my POV anyway. I play marathon most of the time and even though this game was set to small n quick to aid with meeting other Civs I wasn't doing anything remarkably different for the turns I played. I took no aggressive or unfriendly actions to any AI in the game. No cities were settled by me. I accepted all requests/gifts. There is nothing that the AI could get an unfriendly read off, I do not think.

 

[Victoria]

@nzcamel you are going to hate this..... The diplomacy_modifiers.xml file has you relationships as if you were an AI in it. So I am playing victoria, it attributes by dislike of foreign continent settlers as a modifier for me in my view of other players.
Worse... At first glance it seems like this file runs with 16 civs each game which is weird. I'll have to look into it more. A bit of lazyness by developers if it does.

I guess I can look at the lua code for the dip screen... That may be simplest, just I'm no programmer, any modders on that coukd make quick sense of it?

 

[c4c6]

In a "Lets play video" I've seen, that team players can see each others capital / have contact from the beginning. (hope IRRC)

So I would try to play with Qin & Mont as team members on hotseat until one of both finds the first AI player. This human player immediately declares war & attacks. I suppose the AI player hates this aggressive human player.

When the other human player becomes active, he looks at the aggressive human player's and the attacked AI player's diplomacy screens. Ideally one hates the other while this one has no info.

But as Photi pointed out, the Ai may mimic the human player's stance from the actions ... but imho the displayed value would then be plain wrong most of the time. I mean, in a Civ game, do I like or dislike a very rich & very weak neighbor? Who am I to dislike him?

(I'm watching hotseat Lets play videos right now)

 

[Victoria]

But as Photi pointed out, the Ai may mimic the human player's stance from the actions

It seems to in the csv files in the log directory, in particular diplomacymodifiers.csv.
The below image is of a game I am playing as Gorgo, you can see my despise modifiers being applied to opponents... even though I am human

 

[c4c6]

Oh well, this is really a hard life! I suppose the AI is applying all the time modifiers based on Gorgo's agenda while Victoria is trapped in the wrong body ...

 

[nzcamel]

Well. We're learning lots about the game. Even if nothing about who is the subject of the icons

 

[Victoria]

Nah, we just need to match up AI_diplomacy.xml.. I was hoping you would @nzcamel as I have been doing other things but i guess I can try tonight

In the actionviewer.lua the code below does indicate it is the other players views

function GetStatementMood( fromPlayer : number, inputMood : number )

 

[nzcamel]

@nzcamel you are going to hate this..... The diplomacy_modifiers.xml file has you relationships as if you were an AI in it. So I am playing victoria, it attributes by dislike of foreign continent settlers as a modifier for me in my view of other players.
Worse... At first glance it seems like this file runs with 16 civs each game which is weird. I'll have to look into it more. A bit of lazyness by developers if it does.

I guess I can look at the lua code for the dip screen... That may be simplest, just I'm no programmer, any modders on that coukd make quick sense of it?

I don't hate it...yet. I'm still tossing up what it means for the AI...

 

[nzcamel]

Nah, we just need to match up AI_diplomacy.xml.. I was hoping you would @nzcamel as I have been doing other things but i guess I can try tonight

View attachment 468854

You're better at that stuff than I am Vicki
No hurry though if you're busy.

 

[Photi]

If the game calculates that i hate a civ, does that influence the way that civ feels towards me?

 

[nzcamel]

You'd suspect so. And if by hate you really mean hate, then you're talking denouncement territory. Of course war (no duh lol), denounced, declared friends, allies, and defensive pacts are always mutual. It is only unfriendly, neutral, and friendly that can vary between any two given civs.

 

[Photi]

You'd suspect so. And if by hate you really mean hate, then you're talking denouncement territory. Of course war (no duh lol), denounced, declared friends, allies, and defensive pacts are always mutual. It is only unfriendly, neutral, and friendly that can vary between any two given civs.

hate was too strong a word. what i meant was unfriendly, and while specific, my question was more general. so, if game calculates player is friendly, neutral or unfriendly, does that influence AI attitude towards player? would make diplomacy more mysterious and complicated, and would make writing the diplomacy guide @Victoria has been working on an even bigger chore than i am sure it already is.

 

[c4c6]

If the game calculates that i hate a civ, does that influence the way that civ feels towards me?

Of course (and also the way its allies, declared friends, neutral civs with a calculated friendly state ... feel towards you). Because of that I would have preferred, if the AI players have no opinion about the human player's feelings towards other civs.

When you meet a civ, receive a gift and give no gift in return, you ARE unfriendly.

[Btw, if some insider finds this thread, he may take it as hint, that the documentation still contains some uncertainties.]

 

[MadDjinn]

I didn't read the whole thread so I may be guessing on what you were asking for - this is based off of what I've seen in the latest patch.

The main map diplomacy icons are unreliable as they don't seem to update often.

The in diplomacy menu icons are more accurate.

When you view it from your perspective, you see what they think of you.
When you click on an ai pic, you see how others view them.

'Neutral' isn't always exactly that. Even the latest fix "will always accept embassies when neutral" is inaccurate. It's more like "will sometimes accept embassies if neutral and already has a positive modifier, even if the rest is negative and outweighs the positive". Even that depends sometimes on what the negative and positives are for.

Also, relationship changes occur on the AIs turn, not yours. So you can make a deal or gift something to them, but won't be able to use that positive modifier until the next turn. And well, nothing relationship number stops the ai from perusing a goal. If they think you're food, they'll plan for that regardless. If they need a friend, they'll also skip needing to be friendly.

 

[nzcamel]

When you click on an ai pic, you see how others view them.

This bit here ^^^ is the crux of this thread, so thanks for confirming it

'Neutral' isn't always exactly that. Even the latest fix "will always accept embassies when neutral" is inaccurate. It's more like "will sometimes accept embassies if neutral and already has a positive modifier, even if the rest is negative and outweighs the positive". Even that depends sometimes on what the negative and positives are for.

Also, relationship changes occur on the AIs turn, not yours. So you can make a deal or gift something to them, but won't be able to use that positive modifier until the next turn. And well, nothing relationship number stops the ai from perusing a goal. If they think you're food, they'll plan for that regardless. If they need a friend, they'll also skip needing to be friendly.

Thanks for this further info too!

 

[Victoria]

GG, post dun

 

[nzcamel]

If anyone wants it (cos you're a technical bundy too ), here is the sheet I've been using to track AI Civ relationships, so that in negotiations I am not caught out. Well, given I don't update it often enough, I am still caught out lol; but yeah - it helps.
Here's an example of the smaller table laminated (hence the messy writing - I'm trying not to rub out other writing with my arm )

Slightly amended leader relationship table, to make reading it easier if anyone is using it. 10 points if you can pick out the likely idealogue in the spoiler

Spoiler :