Release of v1.8 approaching

[civ_king]

I suspected you might bring him up:

1. He didn't invent it, IMO. i prefer the term 'contributed towards'
2. Even if he did it was under British India. In Civ IV terms: the Brits pop a GS in British Bengal, and then use it to lightbulb Radio.

Well if India didn't exist then then it is silly to argue that they didn't invent things.

That also furthers the argument that colonizers should be buffed

 

[Leoreth]

I noticed for the India temples UHV that Cathedrals don't count at all, is that intentional? IMO they should be worth 1-2 (2 because they are much grander)

Yes, it is. The UHV is mainly about spreading your religions over all of India. Counting more buildings towards that goal would undermine this.

The problem with conquering Spain is the Mediterranean. Maybe some Galleys flipping with Egypt would alleviate that. Your right that without it the challenge is to easy. In order to portray the historical spread of Islam in this game with the Arab civ in the time frame you need a constant expansion from turn one. The current problem is you hit the water and it grinds you to a halt. There is not enough production in the Maghreb to build galleys quick enough, and with 600ADs pre-placed Damaskos you cant chop a fleet out of the Levant.

Don't you think regaining your cities from Egypt, Seljuks and then defending against the Mongols is enough of a challenge? Because I've completely taken out Spain now, and added Egypt in again. Spain wouldn't make much sense anyway, as soon as the Moors are included and cover that area.

I've always had a problem with India in this game, mainly because I am ignorant as to its history (most of what I know comes from SOI) and I think the developers were as well to a certain extent. What I do know is that like civ_kings says India has been populous and rich, however in game terms this can get incredibly unbalancing. Pataliputra with 5F mature cottages and double shrine income in the renaissance is retardedly powerful. More cities in the area might help

Yeah. I'm increasingly positive to a later India spawn with an altered first goal still in this version now.

 

[civ_king]

*snip*

I've always had a problem with India in this game, mainly because I am ignorant as to its history (most of what I know comes from SOI) and I think the developers were as well to a certain extent. What I do know is that like civ_kings says India has been populous and rich, however in game terms this can get incredibly unbalancing. Pataliputra with 5F mature cottages and double shrine income in the renaissance is retardedly powerful. More cities in the area might help

India historically was exceptionally rich, in AD 1 it was 32.9% of global GDP, in AD 1000 it was 28.9%, in AD 1700 it was 24.4% of global GDP. India being insanely rich is historically accurate, the decrease in percent wasn't from India having a weaker economy it was from other areas catching up. I personally put the start city, Delhi and Lahore.
Shrine income doubles in the Renaissance?

An example of India's absurd wealth is that in 1600 Akbar's annual revenue was some £17.5 million whereas the Empire on Which the Sun Never Set's annual revenue in 1800 was £16 million... Then again Indian bankers are better than the Swiss so perhaps it was rather prudent management that enabled such wealth.

*snip*
Yeah. I'm increasingly positive to a later India spawn with an altered first goal still in this version now.

Go for it.

 

[Tigranes]

I hope this can be fixed before 1.8: the issue about trading with someone you lost all the contacts with. Suppose you are Korea, some Viking scout came your way, you sold them fish for 3 gpt. Viking scout got killed, nobody managed to build an embassy, your civs lost any contact with each other for the next 200 years and yet somehow every turn you keep delivering Korean seafood to the bloodthirsty Vikings and getting paid properly. The only way you can get rid of this deal is to pillage your own Fishing boat!

Makes little sense, doesn't it? Either the trade deal must cancel after contact is lost or it must be assumed that your two civs are in contact since you are delivering them product and getting paid every turn.

 

[Leoreth]

I'd prefer the latter. Nothing is more annoying than playing, say, the second Indonesian UHV goal and then lose contact with the cotton delivering Mongols in the last moment.

Let's see if that's easy to do.

 

[SeekTruthFromFacts]

The problem with conquering Spain is the Mediterranean. Maybe some Galleys flipping with Egypt would alleviate that. Your right that without it the challenge is to easy. In order to portray the historical spread of Islam in this game with the Arab civ in the time frame you need a constant expansion from turn one. The current problem is you hit the water and it grinds you to a halt. There is not enough production in the Maghreb to build galleys quick enough, and with 600ADs pre-placed Damaskos you cant chop a fleet out of the Levant.

Historically the Arabs dominated the Mediterranean in the 9th and 10th centuries (hence Arab Sicily), but later fell behind, making the Venetian empire possible. A few free galleys early on wouldn't hurt. At the moment (1.73) I go off to conquer India and central Asia while waiting for Antioch to build my fleet.

 

[Leoreth]

I've moved the Indians to 1500 BC now, and placed two independent cities (Indraprastha and Varanasi) in the Ganges basin. India starts with Meditation so they are granted Hinduism on spawn (AI doesn't research it by then, don't know if I have to do something against the player grabbing Hinduism early on).

I'll adapt their first goal to something else later.

Edit: am still testing the repercussions (also: my attempts to let China found Luoyang or Kaifeng more often), commit follows soon.

Edit2: That's how India looks like at the Maya's spawn. I like it a lot, actually. Northern India is densely settled, the Tamils still independent. I realize that they didn't manage to found Buddhism, that's what I'm working on at the moment.

Spoiler :

 

[civ_king]

I've moved the Indians to 1500 BC now, and placed two independent cities (Indraprastha and Varanasi) in the Ganges basin. India starts with Meditation so they are granted Hinduism on spawn (AI doesn't research it by then, don't know if I have to do something against the player grabbing Hinduism early on).

I'll adapt their first goal to something else later.

Edit: am still testing the repercussions (also: my attempts to let China found Luoyang or Kaifeng more often), commit follows soon.

Edit2: That's how India looks like at the Maya's spawn. I like it a lot, actually. Northern India is densely settled, the Tamils still independent. I realize that they didn't manage to found Buddhism, that's what I'm working on at the moment.

Spoiler :

That looks terrible, why do you want so many cities

 

[River guard]

I've moved the Indians to 1500 BC now, and placed two independent cities (Indraprastha and Varanasi) in the Ganges basin. India starts with Meditation so they are granted Hinduism on spawn (AI doesn't research it by then, don't know if I have to do something against the player grabbing Hinduism early on).

I'll adapt their first goal to something else later.

Edit: am still testing the repercussions (also: my attempts to let China found Luoyang or Kaifeng more often), commit follows soon.

Edit2: That's how India looks like at the Maya's spawn. I like it a lot, actually. Northern India is densely settled, the Tamils still independent. I realize that they didn't manage to found Buddhism, that's what I'm working on at the moment.

Spoiler :

Too much indian culture in Tibet should be considered as problem or not....

 

[J. pride]

Can we atleast make Taxila independent now that the Indian problem is solved?

 

[Leoreth]

What do we gain from this?

 

[BenZL43]

India weren't a single united kingdom, unlike Roman or Achaemenid

 

[civ_king]

India weren't a single united kingdom, unlike Roman or Achaemenid

The Guptas did pretty well in northern Indian subcontinent.

 

[BenZL43]

But weren't last long, iirc (cmiiw)

 

[civ_king]

But weren't last long, iirc (cmiiw)

They were very much succeeded by the Pala who lasted until AD 1174 so 320 to 1174 isn't a bad stretch plus of course before them were the Maurya and Sunga (with the Sunga being basically a continuation) they also all shared the same capital (Pataliputra)

 

[BenZL43]

Wait.
Are we talking about Taxila for 3000BC or 600BC scenario?
If Taxila for 3000 BC,
I think it should be independent for Gandharan.
Later will be conquered by the continous Sunga etc right?

If Taxila for 600AD,
I'm all against making its independent.

 

[J. pride]

If Taxila for 3000 BC,
I think it should be independent for Gandharan.
Later will be conquered by the continous Sunga etc right?

3000 BC is what I am advocating; just wait BenZL as I don't want to open this Pandora's Box at the moment. I will bring the issue up to Leoreth again either tomorrow or Thursday as I don't have time for long posts justifying it right now. But basically the point is to represent an independent Gandharan Civilization which played a very important role in Ancient Central and Southern Asia; this is the historical justification. As far as the gameplay justification goes; the city will become a buffer for Persia and India. Currently India always owns the region, I would like Persian expansion there too and indepnedents are the perfect way of implementing this. There are also other benifits for the Mughals, Arabs but time is constrained so I wont touch on that.

 

[Leoreth]

Not that I want to argue your points before you've properly made them, but the Persians aren't completely averse to conquering India.

 

[BenZL43]

Okay J.Pride.

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Anyone here who likes the third Arabian UHV(Spread Islam)? I actually find it boring, as I just finished the first 2, then quit the game to play Persia. I guess you could consider changing the last UHV Leoreth, if some more people support this.