[Religion and Revolution]: Swords, Guns, Cannons and Ammunition

[Androrc the Orc]

Maybe we could instead of making a new Yield_Sword. Make both Musket and Sword into a Yield_Weapon and use different amount of Weapons required per unit type? Sounds more logical and less complicated too me.

As far as I know, the pike was the dominant weapon in regards to infantry. But, the good thing about swords is that they serve for both infantry and cavalry, so they are perfect as an earlier weapon to replace muskets. A Weapons yield would work, but I think it would be a bit too generic.

 

[raystuttgart]

I really want to have a separate yield for "Swords".

My main arguments:

1. It is realistic to have some "advancement" of weapons-technology.
2. It would give some more strategic options.
3. It is historically correct ! (Especially Cavalry used "Swords for" a long time.)

This concept is not really that complicated.
(... and I am very willing to do the implementation.)

 

[KJ Jansson]

Probably the optimal solution would be, if we combine on one icon both Swords and Pikes (YIELD_COLD_STEEL).

 

[raystuttgart]

Probably the optimal solution would be, if we combine on one icon both Swords and Pikes (YIELD_COLD_STEEL).

Why not.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

Probably the optimal solution would be, if we combine on one icon both Swords and Pikes (YIELD_COLD_STEEL).

It is a possible solution, but I feel it would be less flavorful than simply having swords. There was still plenty of sword infantry to go around during those times, so it isn't ahistorical to have swordsmen; for instance, some Landsknechte used swords.

 

[KJ Jansson]

To my opinion just YIELD_SWORD looks better because to produce Sword we need only Iron and Coal. For Pike (or YIELD_COLD_STEEL) production we must use three yields: Iron, Coal and Wood. I don't know how perfectly AI could make such production.

 

[raystuttgart]

Let us stick with YIELD_SWORD.

 

[KJ Jansson]

Let us stick with YIELD_SWORD.

I found some interesting information. Please, follow this and this links.

Despite this information, I guess YIELD_SWORD would be the best solution.

 

[orlanth]

I support the idea of having several military professions that any unittype can adopt. I'd tend to agree with colonialfan and GomerPyle that having foot units armed with swords would seem a bit unrealistic for the period, so it could be just as well to focus on Muskets, Cannons, and Gunpowder; however I'm ok with the Swords if you strongly want it.

The word Militia refers to untrained civilians who were pressed into temporary military service (could serve as cavalry or artillery, but almost always musketman infantry). The term Regulars always refers to trained professional soldiers with no other job, who could serve in any type of regiment. So in English it would seem confusing to have a Carpenter be assigned to a "Regulars" profession, etc. If the profession name is to describe a Muskets armed unit, it could be called something like Musketmen or Line Infantry. I don't know of any name from that period for Sword armed infantry units, other than Swordsmen or perhaps Skirmishers (or could go with a modification to YIELD_STEEL using Pikemen as others suggested).

The offensive cannon regiment could be called Field Artillery, and maybe could require Cannons,Gunpowder,Horses, since artillery regiments of the period often required horses to haul them to the field when on offense.

 

[Willi_Tell]

Sorry for bumping here, but this might be the right thread for my question(s):

Are you still planning to introduce some of the "DonE"-Ammuniton-Features into RaR?

In "DoanE" I especially liked
- the idea of having different Weapon-Yields (Muskets, Swords, Cannons). As mentioned, Swords could be a part of Cavalry (Cuirassier only?) equipment.
- that cannons were not buildable, but available as profession "Artilleryman" or "Cannoneer" (amount of Yield_Cannon is needed to equip).
- the ammunition (or "gunpowder") concept. Gunpowder units & professions do not only need weapons to equip, but also an amount of Yield_Ammunition, which is consumed and decreased in battle.

I like the concept of ammunition for several reasons: Fighting gets more tactical, as you need to ensure ammunition supply. On the other side, fighting needs more micro management. But having a need for supply/ammunition is highly historical (the one who cannot supply his troops, will not win a war... ask Hannibal, Cornwallis or Paulus)

The concept of ammunition could be handled in 2 variants:

a) similar to "DoanE": Ammunition is needed to equip and needs to be supplied (as Units consume an amount of ammunition in every battle)
b) simplified: Ammunition is only need to equip (like the weapon yields) and does not need to be supplied, as there is no consumption.

If implemented at all, I would certainly prefer variant a. And in any way, there must be a clever solution for YIELD_AMMUNITION (or "GUNPOWDER") to be compatible with the RaR storage system.
solution 1: Ammunition would be excluded from storage limit (like food does), but mabe a certain building (Ammunition Depot) has to be built for having high(er) storage capacity. Similar to "DoanE", we could deal with high quantities of Ammunition, let's say a gunpowder soldier can be equiped with 100, and use 10 in every battle.
solution 2: Ammunition is part of regular storage/limit, therefor we use lower quantities than "DoanE": perhaps 10 as soldier equipment, and only 1 is used in every battle.


(by the way: In "DoanE", the ammunition feature was deactivated to AI because it could not handle it. Would it be wise to do keep that, or is RaR/TAC-AI smart enough to even deal with ammuntion?)

 

[raystuttgart]

We will see what the future brings.

Currently discussing details to concepts that might be implemented sometime in the future does not make a lot of sense.
(Too many things might change until the.)

In the beginning of this project, when we were wildly brainstorming and wanted to find out into which direction we were heading, we basically agreed to:

1. Cannons should become profession instead of units
2. We might have Swords (Close Combat)

4. Ammunition does not need to be resupplied to units all the time, it is not used up but needed for initialy equipping only.

Constantly supplying ammunition is something I explicitly do not like, Sorry.

.... is RaR/TAC-AI smart enough to even deal with ammuntion?)

Neither TAC-AI, nor RaR-AI (which is basically TAC-AI with some improvements) would currently understand something like that.

 

[Willi_Tell]

We will see what the future brings.

I was just bumping...

Constantly supplying ammunition is something I explicitly do not like, Sorry.

For me, that was the part of "DoanE" I liked the most... Tastes are different
Just in comination with the upcoming/planned fort, (ammunition-)supply might be very coherent...

About different taste: It simply would be great, if Ammuntion would be implemented similar to "DoanE" (constantly consumed), but could be deactivated/altered (ammunition only as equipment, no constant consumption) in Game Options

again, sorry for bumping - but I just loved that feature when playing "DoanE"...

 

[raystuttgart]

Tastes are different

Of course.
But I also strongly disagree with "Resupplying Ammunition" because of the efforts and problems it would cause.

 

[Shoobs]

Totally for sword ( pike ) units as well as gunpowder units. A change to the variety of the game is, imo, awesome.

 

[devolution]

*BUMP* The team is currently contemplating some related features.

 

[clearbeard]

Since this thread got bumped recently anyway, I think it would be cool to see the aforementioned change to artillery being a profession instead of a unit. You've already split off cannons from guns as a resource, it seems like a logical and straightforward enough step. As it stands, I find artillery, aside from the handful of Royal Artillery I pick up from the King, to be next to useless beyond a very early game garrison unit.

 

[Sarin]

Since this thread got bumped recently anyway, I think it would be cool to see the aforementioned change to artillery being a profession instead of a unit. You've already split off cannons from guns as a resource, it seems like a logical and straightforward enough step. As it stands, I find artillery, aside from the handful of Royal Artillery I pick up from the King, to be next to useless beyond a very early game garrison unit.

I found light arty very useful throughout the game. Early, it's cheap garrisson and can help with early enemy fortifications. Late, as a unit it has benefit of being possible to produce alongside regular troops while not taking up space in university, which is always most critical resource in the final gearing up for independence for me.

 

[Hecur]

The problem with Artilery as proffesion is AI is really bad in handeling proffesions

 

[Drunk-Monk]

*BUMP* The team is currently contemplating some related features.

Please could you say more about which features you are considering

 

[Schmiddie]

No, but we can say that it is currently not "Swords, Guns, Cannons and Ammunition"... However, we will think about this feature at a later stage.

The new feature(s) will be a surprise when the new version will be published. Be patient