Religions Design

Hmm, not that many of the numerous SW species had big, galaxy spanning empires, or even aspirations for such. No Twi'lek, Rodian, Sullustan, Quarren, Wookie, or Ewok empires.

Also, Force is not that well represented as religion in my opinion. In SW universe, it was pretty much run by one inner circle of Force sensitive elite or another. The masses generally had very little say on which side of the Force their Force sensitives should be using, so my model of Force would use Civics, not Religions.
 
Hmm, not that many of the numerous SW species had big, galaxy spanning empires, or even aspirations for such. No Twi'lek, Rodian, Sullustan, Quarren, Wookie, or Ewok empires.


If the game will begin with technology roughly equivalent to our own, then it will take place at a time when each alien species was an independent entity. Galaxy-spanning empires would not even exist until thousands of years later. Moreover, these "galaxy-spanning empires" basically existed in pairs: the Galactic Republic fighting the Confederacy, the Empire fighting the Rebels, New Republic fighting the Yuuzhan Vong, etc. I can understand scenarios taking place during these times to be set up that way, but I certainly don't want to ever play as the Rebels fighting against battle droids and Vong.

In any case, the criteria of what becomes a civilization in this game has never depended on the size or power of that particular group. Sitting Bull never led a vast Native American Empire, even though he is placed side-by-side with leaders such as Napoleon Bonaparte and Joseph Stalin. Heck, I even came across someone who created a Kosovo civilization the other day. Point is, civilizations have always been determined simply based on whether or not they were an independent group of people, and maybe that they be significant enough that people would actually want to play as them. If anything less than a galaxy-spanning empire is considered "insignificant," then there will only be a small handful of civilizations for this mod, probably gathered from vastly different time periods.

Besides, how would species even work as a religion? I can't imagine a bunch of Wookiees, Ewoks, Twi'leks, etc. suddenly deciding to be Human, or for species to be "founded" by discovering technologies.

Also, Force is not that well represented as religion in my opinion. In SW universe, it was pretty much run by one inner circle of Force sensitive elite or another. The masses generally had very little say on which side of the Force their Force sensitives should be using, so my model of Force would use Civics, not Religions.

I don't think that's accurate at all. First of all, practically every religion in the Earth's history has been run by an inner circle of elite practitioners. Heck, that's even how governments operate. Secondly, the masses were quite aware of Force-sensitives and even usually chose one particular side. Jedi were either seen as protectors of peace or menaces to society depending on the particular culture. In the Old Republic times, the Jedi Order was allowed to exist because of the Republic's cooperation, and they even wielded quasi-governmental authority. Moreover, representing the Jedi Order (for example) as a single civic makes no sense, seeing as they adopted very different stances and tactics throughout their history. The Jedi Order during the Clone Wars worked very differently from the Jedi Order a hundred years previously, even though they were exactly the same institution.
 
In any case, the criteria of what becomes a civilization in this game has never depended on the size or power of that particular group. Sitting Bull never led a vast Native American Empire, even though he is placed side-by-side with leaders such as Napoleon Bonaparte and Joseph Stalin. Heck, I even came across someone who created a Kosovo civilization the other day. Point is, civilizations have always been determined simply based on whether or not they were an independent group of people, and maybe that they be significant enough that people would actually want to play as them. If anything less than a galaxy-spanning empire is considered "insignificant," then there will only be a small handful of civilizations for this mod, probably gathered from vastly different time periods.
Well, if you want to do that alternate history stuff... I just think there isn't much Star Wars feel if you flood it with all sorts of incomplete race Civilizations.

Besides, how would species even work as a religion? I can't imagine a bunch of Wookiees, Ewoks, Twi'leks, etc. suddenly deciding to be Human, or for species to be "founded" by discovering technologies.
They are deciding to build an enclave on human planet. It's an abstraction. I admit that the technology thing is a bit weird, though it could abstractly represent discovery of their home worlds... or maybe those species were always there, but only become worth of mentioning when some technology they are especially good at using comes to light.

On the other hand, maybe technology doesn't need to be the only way to discover these "religions." Goody huts? In the model some civs start with certain species.

I don't think that's accurate at all. First of all, practically every religion in the Earth's history has been run by an inner circle of elite practitioners. Heck, that's even how governments operate. Secondly, the masses were quite aware of Force-sensitives and even usually chose one particular side. Jedi were either seen as protectors of peace or menaces to society depending on the particular culture.
But there wasn't really people practising "Jedi Religion," except the Jedi themselves. The only example I can remember offhand about common folk having any sort of Force Religion would be Exar Kun's Massassi. I'm sure there is a couple of more, but the point is that usually people are totally out of the loop. They are either ruled, protected or ignored by their freaks and their opinion doesn't count for much.
In the Old Republic times, the Jedi Order was allowed to exist because of the Republic's cooperation, and they even wielded quasi-governmental authority. Moreover, representing the Jedi Order (for example) as a single civic makes no sense, seeing as they adopted very different stances and tactics throughout their history. The Jedi Order during the Clone Wars worked very differently from the Jedi Order a hundred years previously, even though they were exactly the same institution.
Oh yes, I agree that there's a lot of change in the Order over the millenia. Old Republic era Order was more vital and free-thinking than the stagnant Order of Rise of the Empire era, and the one started by Luke Skywalker was different again. This isn't really an argument for or against either system, however. If one civic doesn't cut it, use more.
 
Well, if you want to do that alternate history stuff... I just think there isn't much Star Wars feel if you flood it with all sorts of incomplete race Civilizations.

Eh, I prefer not to take the "alternate history" angle quite that far. I like seeing the groups fighting against their historical enemies.

If civilizations were based around the alien species, ideally there would be a handful to start with (Humans, Wookiees, Twi'leks, and maybe a couple others). Some models could be reused by using battle droids or troops that are covered head-to-toe in armor, and some vehicles could reasonably be shared between them. Using species for civilizations wouldn't necessarily require more work than basing it on governments, but it would leave the creation of additional civilizations much more open-ended.

They are deciding to build an enclave on human planet. It's an abstraction. I admit that the technology thing is a bit weird, though it could abstractly represent discovery of their home worlds... or maybe those species were always there, but only become worth of mentioning when some technology they are especially good at using comes to light.

Now that I think of it, what would a city without any religion/species represent? A colony of droids? Maybe there shouldn't be a Human "religion," and just assume Humans exist on all planets.

On the other hand, maybe technology doesn't need to be the only way to discover these "religions." Goody huts? In the model some civs start with certain species.

Having goody huts contain a species envoy is a great idea.

But there wasn't really people practising "Jedi Religion," except the Jedi themselves. The only example I can remember offhand about common folk having any sort of Force Religion would be Exar Kun's Massassi. I'm sure there is a couple of more, but the point is that usually people are totally out of the loop. They are either ruled, protected or ignored by their freaks and their opinion doesn't count for much.

I don't know, the Empire focused a lot of effort on publishing propaganda about the Jedi. If the population's opinion didn't count, I doubt they would spend so much money trying to influence that opinion. While the general population did not directly practice any of the religions, they did generally support or oppose them. I would consider the spread of Jedi/Sith/whatever religions to represent the spread of positive opinion/respect for them, allowing temples and academies to be set up with the approval of the general population.

Oh yes, I agree that there's a lot of change in the Order over the millenia. Old Republic era Order was more vital and free-thinking than the stagnant Order of Rise of the Empire era, and the one started by Luke Skywalker was different again. This isn't really an argument for or against either system, however. If one civic doesn't cut it, use more.

The only way I can see this being handled is having generic civics, such as one for spiritual guidance, one for governmental guidance, one for warfare, etc. It's not feasible to have individual civics representing all the different states of the Jedi Order, then additional civics for all the states of the Sith, etc. There would be at least a dozen different civics, which seems unnecessary since all the different Force religions fulfilled pretty much the same role anyway.

I just can't see the history of the Republic being accurately represented (moving from Jedi counselors, to Jedi warriors, to Sith governors, back to Jedi protectors) without using the normal system for religions: having religions being roughly the same but separate, being able to switch between them, and having the religion's role be determined by a civic. Unless you have one civic category defining the specific religion (Jedi, Sith, etc.), and another category defining the role; in which case you're basically reinventing the religion system (only differences being there's no religion spread, you'd have to do some re-coding to allow a civic to unlock buildings/units, and you'd be cramming an additional category into an already crammed Civic screen). The normal religion system just seems like the most efficient path to me.
 
Now that I think of it, what would a city without any religion/species represent? A colony of droids? Maybe there shouldn't be a Human "religion," and just assume Humans exist on all planets.
Yes, exactly. Humans and possibly some others that don't get mention. Probably any species that gets a civ shouldn't get a "religion" species. It's always assumed there is Chiss, Hutts or whatever and they are worked into the civ's abilities.

I don't know, the Empire focused a lot of effort on publishing propaganda about the Jedi. If the population's opinion didn't count, I doubt they would spend so much money trying to influence that opinion. While the general population did not directly practice any of the religions, they did generally support or oppose them. I would consider the spread of Jedi/Sith/whatever religions to represent the spread of positive opinion/respect for them, allowing temples and academies to be set up with the approval of the general population.
Well, you could but that's a bit flimsy. Besides, what do the Sith care about what locals think of their academy?

The only way I can see this being handled is having generic civics, such as one for spiritual guidance, one for governmental guidance, one for warfare, etc. It's not feasible to have individual civics representing all the different states of the Jedi Order, then additional civics for all the states of the Sith, etc. There would be at least a dozen different civics, which seems unnecessary since all the different Force religions fulfilled pretty much the same role anyway.
With that many traditions, you are going to run to similar problems with religions as well. Also, it could ge pretty nonsensical if you have for example OR Jedi Order, Lukes New Jedi Order, Kaan's Brotherhood of Darkness kind of Sith and some Ewok shamanic tradition in same town. Of course you could just allow one, but that would be its own kind of messy. I admit that the civic system lacks some detail, mainly answering the question "What role the Force-users have in our society?" and leaving the actual traditions mostly to the imagination of the player, but it's neat at least conceptually.

You can always make scenarios to explore the details of some specific period of history further.
 
How about like Warcraft 3 or the Force Unleashed where your religion and civic allows you to have your hero or villian to level up (maybe to level 5) and customize their powers to your liking:

(They don't have to be great generals, maybe just a great prophet with some changed statistics)

Sith:
Choke-saps the life out of a unit but takes a lot of "force power"
Lightning-does damage to unit and all units in adjacent squares
Aggression-heightens the strength of units in certain radius

Jedi:
Push-allows you to "push" enemy units 1 tile away with loss of defense bonuses
Heal-heals 15% health per turn to adjacent units
Awareness-allows you to see through the fog of war on enemy planets for a few turns

Neutral:
Thermal Detonator- a thrown bomb that explodes after one full turn
Rally-you get +15% defense for your units defending a tile
Ally-you get two temporary droids for attacking other units

As for how you get the religions, you either research a slavery (sacrifice population for production) style tech for sith, a monarch "we are happy by military" tech for jedi, and a race superior (+1 experience for native units) tech for neutral

Once you research the tech, a holocron (for force) or a powerful weapon (for neutral) shows up and you get this unit.

And the temple or monastery could be like a respawn point if your hero bites the dust.
 
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