Remember, Remember (the January 6th edition)

[Lexicus]

Hmmmn, well I don't want to give the impression I thought she was blameless.

What else could "she couldn't have beaten wikileaks" mean?

 

[El_Machinae]

What else could "she couldn't have beaten wikileaks" mean?

Looking back, I was weighting it against 'leaning into the deplorables' comment, specifically.

I'm not saying there aren't a constellation of things that might have gotten her to victory.

 

[DaggerDigwillow]

If Hillary had the courage of her convictions and leaned into the deplorables thing she'd have won.

That says a lot about democrat voters and not in a good way.

Hmmmn, well I don't want to give the impression I thought she was blameless.

Oh she had a lot to be blamed for but there is a lot on that list prior to lacking civility.

 

[El_Machinae]

That says a lot about democrat voters and not in a good way.

Only if you're going to impugn a category of people for something one person has said.

But that would have bad implications for Trump supporters as a group

 

[DaggerDigwillow]

Only if you're going to impugn a category of people for something one person has said.

But that would have bad implications for Trump supporters as a group

He's the one alleging it not me. I'm saying if he were correct then yes it would say something about all the people he is talking about.

 

[Lexicus]

He's the one alleging it not me. I'm saying if he were correct then yes it would say something about all the people he is talking about.

We will pass over in silence what it says about Trump voters that they all voted for Donald Trump.

 

[El_Machinae]

Ah, my bad. Sorry!

As someone who often mistypes, that is a doozy of a misreading on my part

 

[DaggerDigwillow]

We will pass over in silence what it says about Trump voters that they all voted for Donald Trump.

Trump didn't allege half of the democrats were deplorable so yeah maybe you should sit in silence and think about that.

 

[El_Machinae]

Trump didn't allege half of the democrats were deplorable so yeah maybe you should sit in silence and think about that.

Half of trump supporters, not half of Republicans. At least give me that!

 

[DaggerDigwillow]

Half of trump supporters, not half of Republicans. At least give me that!

Alright, yeah totally respect the distinction. We also both define trump supporters differently so yeah under what you implied earlier that you don't count all the people who voted for trump as a trump supporters I'd go even further and grant you those who voted for trump but don't support him otherwise.

Edit: although I'd question if such distinctions are made by Hillary herself.

 

[TheCleanerDragon]

Ahh, I love the historical scenarios, too. You ever play 1000AD scenarios in CIV IV? I love playing that for some reason.

Not really. I've opened once or twice and looked around, but never actually played, maybe I should try it out.

 

[Lexicus]

Trump didn't allege half of the democrats were deplorable so yeah maybe you should sit in silence and think about that.

Facts don't care about your feelings, my sensitive friend.

 

[DaggerDigwillow]

Not really. I've opened once or twice and looked around, but never actually played, maybe I should try it out.

If given the option between the 1000AD scenario and an extended origional TOT on TOTPP with 32k tiles across four maps (128k tiles) which would you go for?

Facts don't care about your feelings, my sensitive friend.

When you present a single fact I'll let you know if it hurts my feelings. In the meantime don't hurt yourself dodging my points.

 

[Lexicus]

When you present a single fact I'll let you know if it hurts my feelings. In the meantime don't hurt yourself dodging my points.

Not a bad comeback, I'll admit. Still not going to goad me into wasting time giving you a history education though.

In any event, many of us are of the opinion that Trump did and said many much, much worse things than Clinton's deplorables comment.

And, to forestall the obvious rejoinder, Clinton has also done and said worse. Anyone remember "superpredators"?

 

[TheCleanerDragon]

If given the option between the 1000AD scenario and an extended origional TOT on TOTPP with 32k tiles across four maps (128k tiles) which would you go for?

I've never play TOT, but the 1000AD scenario sets a pretty low bar. Load up Civ4 BTS and look at the vanilla scenarios, some of them are nigh on or literally unplayable.

 

[DaggerDigwillow]

Not a bad comeback, I'll admit. Still not going to goad me into wasting time giving you a history education though.

In any event, many of us are of the opinion that Trump did and said many much, much worse things than Clinton's deplorables comment.

I hope you take it in the spirit of fun. I love a good clap back so long as it isn't in rage from either end and I imagine none of us take this too seriously.

I think my education on the matter is pretty damn decent but if you'd like to recommend additional history text other than Foner, Gallagher, or Foote on the issue I'd be happy to add them to my reading list for next year. I doubt I'll get through the rest of my current list before the end of this year and I still have The White House Years sitting on my desk that I've hardly touched and will probably have to wait until
next year as well.

Most of the things I see alleged by Trump, he either didn't say or are taken out of context. I'm happy to discuss them with you if you feel up to putting in the effort.

 

[El_Machinae]

There is an interesting distinction, distinguishing Trump being uncivil/insulting to identifiable cohorts vs being uncivil to his opponents.
Like, 'deplorables' was uncivil to voters. With Trump, it's easier to think of times he crossed a line with regards to his opponents.
The only times I can easily think of was when he lied about thousands of cheering people in New Jersey during 9/11. That's not 'half', but 'cheering 9/11' is probably worse than 'deplorable'. Or when he forwarded lies about black on black crime. That's a pretty large cohort to villify.

 

[DaggerDigwillow]

I've never play TOT, but the 1000AD scenario sets a pretty low bar. Load up Civ4 BTS and look at the vanilla scenarios, some of them are nigh on or literally unplayable.

Yikes. Yeah Civ 4 in general was a pain starting out. I might load it up just to get a feel for what you are saying but I might just take your word for it.

Ahh, I love the historical scenarios, too. You ever play 1000AD scenarios in CIV IV? I love playing that for some reason.

Any thoughts on the above?

There is an interesting distinction, distinguishing Trump being uncivil/insulting to identifiable cohorts vs being uncivil to his opponents.
Like, 'deplorables' was uncivil to voters. With Trump, it's easier to think of times he crossed a line with regards to his opponents.
The only times I can easily think of was when he lied about thousands of cheering people in New Jersey during 9/11. That's not 'half', but 'cheering 9/11' is probably worse than 'deplorable'. Or when he forwarded lies about black on black crime. That's a pretty large cohort to villify.

Well let's take this one step at a time. What did he allege about black-on-black crime?

 

[El_Machinae]

 

[Lexicus]

Most of the things I see alleged by Trump, he either didn't say or are taken out of context. I'm happy to discuss them with you if you feel up to putting in the effort.

I don't care so much about what he says. He is perhaps the most comprehensively criminal public figure in US history; almost literally everything he has done in his public life has been unethical, criminal, tortious, or some combination thereof.