Replay #4 Slow and steady wins the race

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I'll feed your neediness by letting you know that I'm following this, too, Sera ;)

The map size, game speed, and level of detail means it's almost like a different game from when I play Civ. Which makes it an even more fascinating read.
 
When you get to level 3, you call your Checkers 'Rambo'... which promotion is that?

I just did my first rush in the Nobles Club game. I had the choice of a closer hill capital and a farther flat one. I knew you said not to rush the hill cities first, but I did it anyway. Then by the time I got to Istanbul, Suleiman had chariots. :hammer2: I confess, I went into WB :mischief: and replaced all his chariots with archers, and then took the city, but I'm going to start over and do it in the correct order this time. I also gifted Toku a city in the tundra about a million miles away from his land, and got him to pleased. :lol:
 
You probably already know this, but just for clarifications and for the sake of some viewers -- any leader can DoW (declare war) at any diplomatic stance.

I notice the difference you make. DoW = declaration of war which is not the same as "plot a war" . Friendly status prevents AI from "plotting" a war against the player (with the exception of Catherine, who is also called "backstabby Cathy" because of this, backstab = DoW at pleased or higher) . Correct me again if I got this wrong.

Wow nice trick! Thanks, will bear that in mind :)
Yeah, I had around 6 left when taking the cities and my two main cities were popping out 3 chariots every 4/5 turns without chopping. (Normal by the way, not Marathon). Yes, thanks, I'll bear the chopping in new cities for next time. :) Really enjoying your write up by the way, it's helping me quite a bit for my struggling monarch games :goodjob:

The credits for this trick go to Tachywaxon. There is another one he always mentions: The use of the "bragging function". Sometimes, when contacting an AI via the diplomacy screen, it says something like "fear my Chariot" or "fear my Swordsman" . By this, you know what units AI is able to build, something of special value before open Borders are available, giving one the opportunity to see what AI has got.

3 Chariots every 4.5 turns out of 2 cities on normal speed means every city produces 1 Chariot every 3 turns, right? This is a little slower than in my game, but having in mind that units are relatively cheaper on Marathon, it looks ok for me. Anyhow, normal production is only a minor part of the overall production in the beginning of a round, chopping makes the main part of production, but you already noticed that.

GL with beating Monarch lvl and thx for the compliment again :) .

Excellent reading. I pick up all kinds of data reading. Somewhere you mentioned grammar concerning "its" versus "it's." I always remember this as: unless your cousin It on the Addams Family it's "its."

Thx^2 (thx for the compliment and thx for the sentence to remember the difference between it's and its) :)

You're the one who was able to produce a 200 BC space-colony game, hope, you'll keep on reading and commenting this game :) . Settler is different from Deity, but basically, it's the same game, that's why there must be things I can learn from you.

I'll feed your neediness by letting you know that I'm following this, too, Sera ;)

The map size, game speed, and level of detail means it's almost like a different game from when I play Civ. Which makes it an even more fascinating read.

Getting anwers always motivates to write more / continue the Writeup.

I think I can imagine what you mean with "totally different game" , I tried out some Huge Pangea maps with JC as I have to play every leader, every map, every speed and every start (ancient, classic, etc.) for EQM. I got so frustrated from AI settling near my borders / taking the places where I wanted to settle / getting no Iron, that I put this project on Ice again and will next try to beat 4M with Incans.

If you have the motivation / the time, write what is fascinating you, would be like getting the look into another world, because I have no time yet to play other settings, because I have to finish my goal of getting the biggest highscore ever made in Civ. I can't give up on it and will play Big & Small until I've fulfilled this goal, or, need some vacations again ;)

When you get to level 3, you call your Checkers 'Rambo'... which promotion is that?

I just did my first rush in the Nobles Club game. I had the choice of a closer hill capital and a farther flat one. I knew you said not to rush the hill cities first, but I did it anyway. Then by the time I got to Istanbul, Suleiman had chariots. :hammer2: I confess, I went into WB :mischief: and replaced all his chariots with archers, and then took the city, but I'm going to start over and do it in the correct order this time. I also gifted Toku a city in the tundra about a million miles away from his land, and got him to pleased. :lol:

Wrong number of Replay, but Rambo means 2 things, either Cover + CR1 or CR2, depending on if the unit got 5 XP in one fight (then I promote to CR2) or less (then I promote to Cover, and later continue with CR-Promotion) .

Conquering hills cities is not impossible, it just takes more troops (normal numbers for normal cities are 2 Checkers for each Archer + 1 for being unlucky, for hills-cities one sometimes needs 5 Checkers for a single Archer, sometimes again only 2, so a lot more luck is involved) . It is btw possible to war against Chariots with Checkers, though this is something, one shouldn't do if one has the choice to attack another target. Chariots don't get any defensive bonuses, therefor, they aren't that much harder than Archers, normally, 3-4 Checkers beat a Chariot, which is even better than fighting Archers fortified in hills-cities. It's all about having enough production, if the cities one conquers have good production tiles, a lot is possible with Checkers. Only units that really stop them are Spears and especially Axemen. I once played a map where I was able to mass up 20+ Checkers and they all died from 1 Axeman, but I've won with Checkers against Civs having Chariots at least 10 times already.

Will write the next part of the Writeup now, till then, cya,

Seraiel
 
Welcome back to another episode of "Replay" :

The era of the egyptian Cuirrassiers - The first Blitzkrieg!​


There was one goal I couln't fulfill in the last episode: The Conquest of Hatty. I had estimated the value of a Great Merchant to be higher than it actually was in the end, I still somehow managed to upgrade the War Chariots I had to Cuirrassiers. I used the GM I got by Economics, assuming it'd be easy to get another one, and have 20 elite Cuirrassiers now. Constructing West Point in the HE city proved to be a decision about people can argue, because I would have had enough Currassiers to declare war on Hatty, if I had produced Knights instead of it. Like this, I have to whip a little more, which of course is something one shouldn't do, if one steers towards another golden Age. The whole whipping will cost me the possibility to run Bombay as a GP Farm, it'll even cost me my #1 place, but there is no other way for me, I need a Vassal, I need a Shrine, and I am already late.

In 80 BC, the final phase of war prepping starts: I've not begged anything from AIs during the last 30+ turns, now is the time for it, because this time, I have no meatshield to absorb the bribes Hatty makes, so I need peace-treaties with everyone:



I wasn't able to get a peace-treaty with Viccy, so I bribed her against Lincoln via giving her Liberalism:



I also wasn't able to get peace-treaties from Lizzy and Darius. I have Darius on friendly, so there is no possibility for Hatty bribing him against me, but bribing Lizzy is a possibility Hatty has. I need this war to be over in 10 turns or less if possible, because once the peace-treaties run out, it'll become more dangerous for me. Viccy and Lincoln could already have made peace by then, so Hatty maybe could bribe her against me, which in short would be the end of the round. Mansa is the next one that could be bribed against me, and with him, I'd loose an important trade-partner, again, not good. At last, she could bribe Willem and she can already bribe Peter, because I couldn't beg for him aswell, as Viccy had "demanded" (!) from me to stop trading with him, something where I had to give in.

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This was the preview on the upcoming war, there are things that happened in between that have to be mentioned:

  • I got the Taj Mahal, therefor, the empire is currently in its 2nd golden Age.
  • Civics I ran during the GA were REP and again Caste + Mercantilism + Pacifism, to maximise Great Person Points. Running Mercantilism with having REP proved to be a lot better than it was during the 1st GA without REP, but it was also having two overseas cities giving 2 Commerce TRs which made a Huge difference in the Gold Netto Product. With those Civics, the empire makes 700+ Beakers per turn still being at 100% Research.
  • The next Great Scientist had been born, I used him to lightbulb part of Scientific Method.
  • I founded city #18, another city of no importance other than that it secures some Sushi-ressources.
  • The construction of the Globe Theater has finished! I now got another city with superior prodution capacity, just like the Heroic Epic city of Ahmedabad, with the difference, that the GT city isn't planned to produce troops this time. This is, because Ahmedabad has incredibly high production, and, because the highest priority atm. is to expand on all those islands (yes, the war doesn't have the highest priority! ) .

Anyhow, the war has the highest priority in this episode, that's why the episode started with it, and will end with it.

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Knowing that I have to Blitz Hatty, and having a strikeforce of 30 Cuirrassiers, I decide for a tripple Stack-split:



  1. The main strikeforce of 15 Cuirrassiers. Target: The southwestern city of Heliopolis and the southern city of Elephantine. These cities have the Mahabodi (buddhist Shrine) and the Angkor Wat. Mission after that: Meet with strikeforce #3 at Giza.
  2. The secondary strikeforce of 10 Cuirrassiers. Target: The heavily defended city of Akhetaten. Mission after that: Proceed towards southern city of Pi-Ramesses.
  3. The tertiary strikeforce of 5 Cuirrassiers. This strikeforce is only small and shall bind Hatty's SoD in the city of Giza. Once the reinforcements have arrived from Ahmedabad and the main-strikeforce has conquered Heliopolis and Elephantine, it shall destroy Hatty's SoD and conquer Giza, making her capitulate.

Notice, that I have no plans on attacking Hatty's capital, as I want her to become my Vassal, therefor, I need her to stay strong. Attacking her capital would weaken her extremely even if I gifted the city back, because of all the buildings being destroyed in the conquest.

I've used the strategic drawing tool from Civ to show you the plan again:



It shows how I plan to move the different strikeforces. The screens also show that after completition of SM, research went Communism at a rate of about 750 BPT. The Versaille World Wonder is almost complete, of course I'm not going to construct it, I'll build it near completition in other cities to get a huge sum of Failgold from it, and, as already said, the empire is focusing on expanding onto those islands, most cities are building Settlers, not Cuirrassiers.


70 BC I declare war! The cities of Giza and Akhetaten fall in an instant to the opness of the Cuirrassiers:



Losses till now: 1 Cuirrassier died in the battle of Akhetaten. I won enough fights / destroyed enough units / conquered enough cities to have a war-success higher than 40. Anyhow, Hatty of course isn't willing to capitulate yet, as her military quotient is still too high for that.

60 BC: Hatty bribes Peter against me. No big deal, as Peter can only reach me via seaway, and overseas invasions are very unlikely by stupid AI. He's also very backwards so he's no real threat, but just to even out the military, I bribe Mansa against Hatty. Otherwise, she never would capitulate as I would need to have about 1.5 times the forces of her and Peter, which is impossible atm. Getting Mansa in the game combines his military quotient with mine, so it's just to equalize forces and make Hattys capitulation possible at all, and, it's to not get Mansa as another opponent. Of course, neither Peter nor Mansa will play any active role in this war.

It's also the turn where the main strikeforce conquers Heliopolis, the holy city of buddhism:



As said, it has got the Mahabodi already, but how much is the income generated by this Shrine?

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A little hard to see with the picture having been resized, but it's 80 GPT. The city also has the Angkor Wat and is has the (obsolete) Temple of Artemis plus a settled great Priest.

Losses till now: 4 Cuirrassiers died in the battle of Heliopolis, and I lost 2 at Giza in a counter-attack, so this makes 7 lost Cuirrassiers.

A scout from Strikeforce 2 has reached the city of Pi-Ramesses, it's defended by 3 Longbows, and Hatty's SoD has decided to go for Giza. The city is going to fall as it's only defended by a single Cuirrassier, but the plan to bind her forces there while capturing the most of her other cities is working and reinforcements are coming from Ahmedabad every few turns.

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50 BC: Hatty retakes Giza with her losing 1 War Elephant and me loosing 1 Cuirrassier. In the meantime, Strikeforce 2 is still healing / on its way to Pi-Ramesses while Strikeforce 1 is healing in Heliopolis.

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Losses till now: 8 Cuirrassiers.

40 BC: Reinforcements from Ahmeadabd have arrived at Giza, binding the units there. I've sent out some Galleons to Peter, to sink some of the Galleys / Triremes he has. I did this mainly to get an 8 XP Galley for the "Captains-Event" (free War Academy in city having a Drydock) .

30 BC: Nothing special except some really hard open-field-farming.

20 BC: Enough units of Strikeforce 2 have healed up and met at Pi-Ramesses, so an attack is possible:

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City falls with the loss of 1 Cuirrassier, which was very lucky with them having 50%ish odds against the fortified Longbows in this hills-city. On the screen, you can also see "Ultralord", a 2nd Supermedic I've created with the GG I still had from the war against Tokugawa.
And: In between turns I also lost a Galleon to one of Hatty's Caravelles, so:

Losses till now: 9 Cuirrassiers, 1 Galleon.

Both, Peter and Hatty are willing to talk again and I could make peace. Hatty of course is no option as I want her to capitulate and become my Vassal, and I think about making peace with Peter, but in the end don't, because I don't want Hatty to capitulate already, I still want the city of Elephantine from her.

10 BC is the time, where the Reinforcements from Ahmedabad attack Hatty's SoD in Giza. They almost conquer the city, leaving it with 1 heavily wounded defender. And, it's the turn where Strikeforce 1 conquers the city of Heliopolis with no losses:

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It's a Galleon that brings in the last points needed to get another GG:

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So Hattys Military has been destroyed, I've taken all cities that I wanted from her, let's see if she's willing to capitulate now:

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She is! I accept her capitulation immediately, as she still has 11 cities left, which is enough for her to make a good Vassal, that's strong in research. I gift her all my techs, except the monopoly ones, and order her to research Replaceble Parts, which lies on the way to Railroad / Mining Inc. I myself am still on the way to Sushi, with researching Communism first, as I want the Kremlin asap.

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This is the end of the episode "The era of the egyptian Cuirrassiers - The first Blitzkrieg!" . I've fulfilled my plans to conquer Hatty and have a very strong Vassal now, which will help me, by researching the techs needed to get Mining Inc, while I still aim for Sushi. The war lasted only 7 turns, and I had total losses of 9 Cuirrassiers and 1 Galleon! I hope I brought the tactics used in a "Blitzkrieg" to you, those are basically Stacksplit and the use of multiple Medics, but also diversion. One has to know in front how many forces will be needed for a specific task, and has to have a plan what they should do afterwards. Having Reinfocements is something one should have in any war, so this is not Blitzkrieg specific, but in this episode you could see how one can make plans with them and how strong Reinforcements can be.

The next episode is called "The era of the egyptian Cuirrassiers - The overseas invasion of Russia!" Make sure to follow that one too, till then, cya


Seraiel
 
No posts since the last episode, guess it was a not enough content, so here is some more :)


The era of the egyptian Cuirrassiers - The overseas invasion of Russia!


1 AD is normally the time, where I give another clearview over the empire, its military, its economy, its demographics, but the empire is still in its 2nd golden Age, so I'll catch up on that as soon as it's over. Interesting things are happening:

Bribing Viccy + Asoka against Lincoln + Suleiman seems to have been one of the best choices I've made in that round.
Even though Lincoln is lacking in tech, he is able to conquer Warwick from Viccy. As hoped, their war is pretty intense, here is a Graph from 50 AD showing, that both sides have lost a lot of forces, while my empire has regained the same strength that I had before conquering Hatty:

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Having Hatty as a Vassal severely highered my maintenance though. I don't know that for sure, but my guess is, that the Vassals cities are handled as if they belonged to onesself. I guess this, because later I found out, that one doesn't even pay supply for units in the Vassals territory.

Lizzy is currently researching Democracy. I support that, because now that I got Cuirrassiers, I plan on conquering her after I've conquered Peter. Maybe she could build the Statue of Liberty for me? That'd be really nice, as that Wonder is tremendously expensive for its time.

I have bribed Wang Kon against Peter and Washington was so nice to join the war aswell. Aim of this: Getting better Diplo through sharing wars again.

The holy city of buddhism and city of the Mahabodi (buddhist Shrine) , Heliopolis, has come out of revolt in 30 AD, greatly reducing the deficit the empire has being at 100% research still. The city is very large, so I can whip the Gold-multiplier-buildings once the GA is over. Like this, the city will give and amazing income of almost 200 Gold per turn!

A great Prophet is born! Not exactly what I hoped again, I'd have prefered either a great Engineer or a great Scientist, but it's not as bad as it sounds at first, because remember my GP Farm Pataliputra? Yes, that city is the holy city of Hinduism, so it's time to get another Shrine, I build the Kashi Vishvanath. Atm. 32 cities have the hinduist Religion, so this Shrine is not as powerful as the Mahabodi of course, but it's still very nice to have it.

Peter's capital, the city of Moscow falls.
I was building tons of Galleons at that time in Kyoto and took Cuirrassiers from Strikeforce 2, which were healing in Akhetaten, and sent them on the overseas invasion healing on the Ships. Just to give you an impression where Moscow lies, here is a picture:

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Here is a closer view of Peter's territory showing also the Ressources:

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Peter is willing to capitulate, but as he's being hated so much by the other AIs (and I don't wanna get any negative diplo) , and because I don't think that he'll make a good Vassal with his cities being small and surrounded by ice, I don't accept and plan on exterminating him completely. I don't mind that his cities are horrible, as that doesn't matter once I'll have Sushi & Mining, with those two Corps, even the worst cities become awesome. Regarding the ressources the cities have, those are even really nice, because Furs are awesome tradegoods, and three times Copper are already 1.5 Hammers by Mining Inc.

I found the cities 25 to 27 (just as a last, all cities founded from now onwards are island cities that are of no importancy except that they secure Sushi-ressources and will contribute to the highscore in the end, that is why they're only mentioned by numbers) , but more important, in 80 AD, I finally reach Communism! I instantly start the construction of the Kremlin in Lisht, as I want Thebes to be able to construct the SoL in the case Lizzy doesn't build it fast enough but other Civs having Democracy by then, so I have to hurry. Splitting Wonders giving Specialist Slots is also always something good in a Sushi-game, Lisht will be transformed from a pure production city to a "Spy-City" (a city getting the Espionage Point multiplier buildings working Spy Specialists) . Finally, Research could go towards the biggest goal, the tech of Medicine via Biology (note that I still don't have the tech "Corporations" but Lizzy has it, so I'll either get it because Hatty can trade it from her, or I'll get it once I vassalize her) , but I decide for another detour again: I still own only 12% of the world, I cannot only have thoughts about getting Sushi asap, I must also think about conquering the world, as I have to win that game somehow, and all those cities will also contribute greatly towards my highscore. Researching Physics will give me a GS to lightbulb Biology and I'll get another GS in the near future, I will also need to start a 3rd GA as I used the great Merchant from Economics to upgrade the War Chariots to Cuirrassiers, and Physics would give me Airships which are awesome in combination with Cuirrassiers / Cavalries.
Maybe you notice the difference to the Incan-game I played in Replay #3 now, things like Libbing Medicine or beelining Sushi are just not possible as one isn't such a superior position all the time. I'll maybe write a comparison between Replay #3 and this game at the end of it, as I think that this game was played a lot better the previous. I think I understand why people say about the Incans that they're "broken", meaning that they're basically so overpowered with Marathon setting that the term overpowered is not enough for them.

At the end of the 2nd GA, in 80 AD, with the egyptian cities coming out of revolt one after another, the empire breaks through the sonic-barrier of 1000 Beakers per turn:

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So how much is left of that after the end of the GA? Here is the promised clearview of the empire at 160 AD (I know this is again some turns away from the closest possible date after the GA, which would have been 90 AD, but I took a save from which I know that I microed the cities well and a save where Heliopolis also had a Bank, something making noticable differences, and anyhow, 160 AD is only 16 turns from 1 AD, compared to the length of the round till now this is only a deviation of 3%) :

First, let's have a look at the financial advisor:

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Things to see, are:

The deficit has grown large. Even though the empire has 2 Shrines creating a base-income of more than 200 GPT (including multipliers) , it's Hatty's cities + the newly conquered russian ones + the number-cities which have greatly increased the City Maintenance. After City Maintenance, Civic Upkeep is the 2nd major factor that causes the empire expenses. The large military (with the medium sized cities) is the 3rd.
The main source of income are the Traderoutes, those are giving about 350 Commerce. After that follow the worked tiles with about 250 Commerce. That Commerce is converted to Research at a 100% Rate creating 1000+ Beakers (!) still! (If you ask yourself why the empire is still making 1000 BPT although the GA has ended: 1. Free Market is a lot more powerful with deficit Research than Mercantilism and 2. I always switch to production heavy tiles during the GA, so often work tiles like plains-Cottages that hadn't even grown yet. ) Amazing fact: Trading Ressources is giving about 150 GPT atm. which is almost as much as the 2 Shrines are giving!
I have no notes about this but I think, that I switched to State Property at some time, because I simply could not pay the expenses of the weak island cities anymore. This would cost me some Beakers, and some time later, I could not even sustain the 100% tech-rate, but I find it amazing that it was possible for over 2000y.


After having seen the economy, let's see how my empire compares to the others:

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What has changed since the last clearview, is, that I can now compare to the top-empires in every discipline, even though my population is a lot smaller than theirs. The AIs are also having a larger military still, but this doesn't matter, as I have Cuirrassiers and they don't have Rifles yet. It's the 1st time I'm #1 in Production, Food and Gold.

For a closer comparison, here are the Graphs:

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The GNP-Graph doesn't show anything special other than that the empire having greatly improved, while the Research was at 200 BPT in 1000 BC, it's now over 1000 BPT, so it's 5 times as high. Looking at the production, one sees the amazing power of GAs, while my empire was barely able to compete with the others 100 turns ago, it had almost twice their production during the GAs. That production was used for expansion and developement of the cities which are the fundament for an even greater lead. The Food-Graph shows the exact opposite of the Production-Graph, production-tiles were worked. After the war was over and the cities out of revolt, the GA was over so I switched to food heavier tiles again (i. e. Plains-Cottages to Grassland-Cottages) , that's why it goes up almost vertically. Basically one can say, that from being able to get #1, I now am #1.


Just for completeness, a look at the important cities:

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The Capital, the city of Thebes, home of Oxford University. This city has grown by only 2 population points since the last clearview, but has a lot more buildings. As told last time, this city was at the switch from being everything to being a specialized research-city, the switch has been made, the city makes 350 instead of 50 Beakers XD

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The GP-Farm, Pataliputra. This city worked 7-8 Specialists at a size of 11 during the GAs, it got a Shrine in the end, because of that and because I needed Merchant-Slots I whipped a Grocer in it, so it's a little bit smaller than it was already. It's an important city, but one of the weakest GP Farms I ever had. Great Person output reflects this very well, while I was able to create about 3 GPs from the main GP Farm only in my Incan games, this one barely created 2.

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The HE-City of Ahmedabad, fully developed and as already mentioned, working Food-heavy tiles after the GA.

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The future Ironworks-City of Bangalore, also set to Growth. It's short before the switch from being a multi-purpose-city to a specialized maximum-production-city.

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Another city of great importance, the city of Osaka, home of the Globe Theater. I'm still waiting for guesses from you how much turns the whip-timer of this city will be in the end, atm. it's still low at 50 turns.

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On this screen still a production city, but will become a Spy-City, constructing the Kremlin, the city of Lisht. Working maximum production tiles as the Kremlin is possibly the most important Wonder after the Oracle (and maybe the MoM) , enhancing whip-efficiency from 100 to 150%.

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The shipyard, Kyoto. What Ahmedabad is when it comes to producing ground-troops, this city is concerning the production of ships. It was the best production city that was coastal and available early, that's why it got the Moai-Statues to further increase its production capacity.

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The last city of great importance, future home of Sid's Suhi, Mining Inc. and the Wallstreet, having the powerful Mahabodi: Heliopolis. You can be excited about this city, as with becoming the home of the Corporations, this city will have some incredible stats in the end. Atm. it's already quite fascinating creating an income of 160 GPT while only causing maintenance of 5 GPT (that's 1/30) .


There are some things you can't notice from the screens I already posted:
  • I did some crazy Settler-whipping at that time. Cities like Bomay were whipped down to size 4 (look back, the city had at least 7 good tiles, so I don't know if this was the right decision, but I was tired and thought "wow, this is all taking sooooo long" )
  • The cities are regrowing on Banks (at least that makes sense) .
  • Even though I was dead tired at that time, I still had the right instinct and produced the Workboats for the island cities in the empires core-cities, and found out something very interesting: Once Astronomy has been researched, those Workboats can sail over the Ocean! Never noticed that before, but also never sent Workboats on long-term-missions before.

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So this was the clearview I promised, but I guess the re-reading of it made me again tired. If it weren't for me to be excited about what came next, I would now go to sleep, but now I'm awake again, so I continue with the Writeup in 120 AD, the turn where St. Petersburg and Yakutsk fall:

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More interesting than Peters crap-cities, which sometimes still have ancient units as defenders but still cause losses, is the typically sized AI stack you can see on the picture. Those are Washington's units, and counting them, one gets to the number of 39! I'm always amazed by AIs capability to build units, just look at the scoreboard in the lower right corner, Washington has only got 10 cities and is highly underdeveloped, he doesn't even has access to the sea and his cities are getting culture-crushed from Frederick, Pericles, Wang Kon and Hammurabi. He's the 2nd weakest AI (not counting Peter who's as already defeated and not counting Vassals) , still his Military has about the same size as mine.

Overseas invasions are a pain, anyhow, Peter is a joke, in 140 AD, his next two cities fall, one didn't even have a defender! *lol*

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With him being no opposition at all, I only have to coordinate the movement of the Galleons, until I finally have conquered all of his cities in 190 AD:

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6 cities gained through war, 1 normally founded in the meantime, makes 34 in total. Things that also happened in the meantime were, that Frederick declaring war on Mansa O_o . That was unexpected, but I don't mind those two fighting each other, Mansa fears that "I'm too far advanced" so doesn't trade techs with me anymore, guess I'm almost on my own now (I still have Hatty to research for me) , good if the others are fighting, only makes it easier for me, though this war honestly is too far away to play any role at all. I just couldn't think of a better bridge to another view at the tech-screen:

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This basically shows the inability of AI to research Military Tradition. While AI has Democracy, Chemistry and Corporations, it's just too dumb to get the most powerful weapon of its era. Anyhow, not having the additional TR from Corps is costing me a decent amount of Beakers, but I refuse to research something that has already been researched by 1/3 of all Civs! Good thing to notice is, that nobody has researched Communism but me, therefor, the Kremlin won't be endangered. Hatty funking up my trade-relations because of combined Diplo-stance is something that really was, well, something, maybe I'll listen to WastinTime next time and play without Vassals, though the thought of having had to conquer all of Hatty's cities really is, well, something again. I guess with superior Diplo and no need to win as early as possible, Vassals are simply not necessary.

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This is the end of the episode "The era of the egyptian Cuirrassiers - The overseas invasion of Russia!" . It contained a clearview of the empire around 1 AD, and it ends in 190 AD with me still not having Sushi but therefor having another opportunity: I could bribe WK against Hammurabi O_O . The bribe is tremendously expensive, he want's more than 2500 gold for it, but if I maybe wait until he's some turns before having researched a tech... WK is still a global player, as is Hammurabi, and the war of Viccy against Lincoln already proved out to be extremely valuable... Well, I'm not going to spoil that, only the name of the next episode, which is 2 episodes: "The era of the egyptian Cuirrassers - The 2nd Blitzkrieg!" and "Crazy expansion prior to Sushi - Securing the Ressources first" . Till then, cya,

Seraiel
 
Vassals add happiness but cost money, though I don't know the formula. They aren't treated exactly as one's own cities for maintenance, I don't think. But units act as if they're in your own territory for supply and healing purposes.

I'm going to guess the whip timer will be at 480 turns. :crazyeye:

I think it's interesting that you didn't know about workboats being able to cross the ocean after Astro. You're such an advanced player, and yet you still find new things to learn about the game. I guess that's just evidence of what a great game Civ4 is. :love:
 
Vassals add happiness but cost money, though I don't know the formula. They aren't treated exactly as one's own cities for maintenance, I don't think. But units act as if they're in your own territory for supply and healing purposes.

I'm going to guess the whip timer will be at 480 turns. :crazyeye:

I think it's interesting that you didn't know about workboats being able to cross the ocean after Astro. You're such an advanced player, and yet you still find new things to learn about the game. I guess that's just evidence of what a great game Civ4 is. :love:

10 whips is 300 turns... I could imagine the timer beiing couple of thousands...
 
Vassals add happiness but cost money, though I don't know the formula. They aren't treated exactly as one's own cities for maintenance, I don't think. But units act as if they're in your own territory for supply and healing purposes.

I'm going to guess the whip timer will be at 480 turns. :crazyeye:

I think it's interesting that you didn't know about workboats being able to cross the ocean after Astro. You're such an advanced player, and yet you still find new things to learn about the game. I guess that's just evidence of what a great game Civ4 is. :love:

So the first guess has been made! Who wants to make the second guess, the winner of this contest can influence the next round I play by choosing the leader or the victory type!
:D
 
Did some quick whip anger math. Whipping every other turn anger maxes at (32*7) + 16 or 240 turns. Whipping every turn it maxes at 31*15 or 465 turns. So I guess an every other sequence with 2 consecutive whips at the end or 31*8 = 248.
 
10 whips is 300 turns... I could imagine the timer beiing couple of thousands...

It's good you make that clear again, 1 whip = 30 turns of anger on Marathon. 2 whips = 60 turns of anger on Marathon, etc.

But I miss a concrete answer of you :)

Did some quick whip anger math. Whipping every other turn anger maxes at (32*7) + 16 or 240 turns. Whipping every turn it maxes at 31*15 or 465 turns. So I guess an every other sequence with 2 consecutive whips at the end or 31*8 = 248.

I cannot follow that math, but I would rethink it it :D

Nice stuff! I think 1500 turns :p

Hmm :D No comments on that, don't wanna ruin the contest :strength: .
 
Did some quick whip anger math. Whipping every other turn anger maxes at (32*7) + 16 or 240 turns. Whipping every turn it maxes at 31*15 or 465 turns. So I guess an every other sequence with 2 consecutive whips at the end or 31*8 = 248.

I don't get your math...

the whip turn timer is going -1 each turn adding happy faces at points based on speed.

if you whip on marathon you add to the whip timer +30. If i would whip for 90 turns every second one I would accumulate 45*30 whip timer and fade 90 = 1260 turns...

or we maybe talk about something else or there is some hardcoded cap I am not aware of or I don't understand whipping at all (which can be possible)
 
It's good you make that clear again, 1 whip = 30 turns of anger on Marathon. 2 whips = 60 turns of anger on Marathon, etc.

But I miss a concrete answer of you :)



I cannot follow that math, but I would rethink it it :D



Hmm :D No comments on that, don't wanna ruin the contest :strength: .

I guess "couple thousands" is really very vague ;-)

I say 1800 turns give or take... that's more then 60 whips and still feel it's too low ;-)

edit:

the 1800 holds... 60 whips...
 
I don't get your math...
I said it was quick. But whipping every turn yields an anger sequence of 30 + 29 + 28 + 27 + 26 .... until 30 data points are reached. Or, 15 pairs adding to 31. So 15 *31 = 465.

An every-other-turn whipping sequence runs 30 + 28 + 26 + 24 ... until 15 data points are reached. Or, 7 pairs adding to 32 with 16 left over: 7*32 + 16 = 240.

This does not including the possibility of whipping twice on same turn with dequeueing. Two straight whips concluding latter sequence would be 240 + 29 = 269. (Not 248 as above.)

So I amend my guess to 269.
 
I said it was quick. But whipping every turn yields an anger sequence of 30 + 29 + 28 + 27 + 26 .... until 30 data points are reached. Or, 15 pairs adding to 31. So 15 *31 = 465.

An every-other-turn whipping sequence runs 30 + 28 + 26 + 24 ... until 15 data points are reached. Or, 7 pairs adding to 32 with 16 left over: 7*32 + 16 = 240.

This does not including the possibility of whipping twice on same turn with dequeueing. Two straight whips concluding latter sequence would be 240 + 29 = 269. (Not 248 as above.)

So I amend my guess to 269.

there are 2 different things regarding whips

1) angry citizen
2) number of turns of those citizen

I was the assumption that Ser is asking about number of turns of any unhappy citizen
 
I was the assumption that Ser is asking about number of turns of any unhappy citizen
I think I understand your point. But if a city is whipped every turn for 90 turns then would not 60 of them have been forgotten?
 
I think I understand your point. But if a city is whipped every turn for 90 turns then would not 60 of them have been forgotten?

well if you whip every turn for 90 turns you get 90x30 whip turn timer (aka 2700 turns to be rid of unhapiness) from which you then subtract those 90 turns (if you want to be picky then probably 89 not sure now)
 
^^
I hate it when a casual read gets bogged down by number crunching. :lol: The timer on a whip 90 turns ago is 30 turns. So 60 turns ago anger from that whip has disappeared from the timer. What goes up does come down.
 
^^
I hate it when a casual read gets bogged down by number crunching. :lol: The timer on a whip 90 turns ago is 30 turns. So 60 turns ago anger from that whip has disappeared from the timer. What goes up does come down.

I admit I am totally at loss now what we agree on, what is the mechanic and when we're at it what we even talk about!

i leave this to Seriael to clear what he had in mind ;-)
 
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