Report Bug, Get Patch

[Kesshi]

stmartin,

I already posted this same post here, but I think I will repeat myself in this thread as this seems to be the more appropriate place to post.

Thank you for this mod. I, like many others, have been a Three Kingdoms fan for a long time and am really enjoying playing this mod. Thank you for your time and effort.

I did notice two possible bugs.

With Citrus Fruit, as long as you have the Anesthesia technology, a Fort, and a route, your civ can reap the benefits of Citrus Fruit very early without waiting for the ability to build Plantations from the Calendar technology. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.

Also, I was playing a "regular" game with the ROTK mod, and ended up with some odd diplomatic occurances. I, as Liu Bei, wiped out everybody exept for Cao Cao and Liu Biao. Liu Biao was the underdog and I decided to get friendly with him, and we eventually signed a defensive pact. Understandably this upset Cao Cao and I then suffered a "-4 You have signed a defensive pact with one of our rivals" penalty from Cao Cao. However what I didn't understand was why I still suffered from that penalty after Cao Cao decided to sign a Defensive Pact with Liu Biao. If the two of them had a defensive pact with one another shouldn't they not be rivals anymore?

Thanks again for such an awesome mod.

 

[stmartin]

@Kesshi

Glad you loved it!

The Citrus Fruit one is definitely not intended...

The defensive pact weirdness is probably not introduced by this mod though. I'll take a closer look at that.

 

[Kalimakhus]

I guess you need a thread dedicated to balance issues where people may discuss things like the latest maintenance changes. I am playing Sun Ce on the smaller map on Monarch at epic speed. I've recently been able to rise my research to 50%. Most of time however it was around 30%. Should notice however that Sun Ce starts with only two cities and grows to 5 after killing his first victim. (Don't remember his name. Yuan something or so. He wasn't around for long anyway ). Also Sun Ce is financial and his UBs give tons of gold. (Seems a little overpowered )
The AI seems to be doing fine. Liu Zhang actually has beaten me to Neotaoism. Cao Cao seems to have some hardships but it might be because AIs dogpiled him. Shao is doing well with an army a little larger than mine and a larger empire (I guess). Smaller civs are sure doing better than before. Not only do they survive, they even constitute a real threat to larger civs. Liu Chong managed to capture's Cao Cao's capital!!

Bottom line is. We need a good number of reports about the impact of the changes in different games with different leaders. Readjustment would be needed if the maintenance proved too high for some leaders to be playable at all, or if it caused the player not to be able to complete the tech tree within game time.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Well, Liu Zhang in the small map was definitely not playable. I was barely 4th just because of my population size. My tech was abominable due to 0-10% science at most times, even while running the cheapest civics like purchasing and indifference. I thought converting to Revival and building lots of Advisor Mansions (which give 10% discount on maintenance) would help, but that meant switching to strong which is a terribly expensive proposition, and knocked my science down 10%. Even Wang Lang was 2 techs ahead of me. AND all this is just on monarch.

It's fine if you want to play Lu Bu and get money by capturing cities. More peaceful people like Liu Biao and Liu Zhang can't get anything done in the new patch.

 

[Kesshi]

stmartin,

Another bug. While playing Marathon as the game speed but for some reason it wants to end the game in 750 turns, not the 1500 that that CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml file states. I've attached a save.

 

[Kalimakhus]

@Kesshi

The game time is hard coded in the map (scenario) file. You can open the file in Notepad and either remove the line "MaxTurns=750" or change it to 0. This won't solve the problem with your current save however. You will need to start a new game for this to take effect.

@AP

I guess there must be some cheating in AI expenses. In my game (Sun Ce, same map and same difficulty) Liu Zhang is the most advanced. Maintenance caused me to crawl through the techtree but I am still 2nd or 3rd of the most advanced. Again Sun Ce has quite a lot of advantage when it comes to gold.

I am leaning to agree that the latest maintenance changes might have been too much stifling for the human player. May be making techs more expensive would be a better alternative. For the main civs this game is about expansion anyway. I don't know how would I win the game without taking cities . (Maybe I should switch to slavery and whip a few buildings to get rid of population maintenance!!).

 

[Kesshi]

Kalimakhus,

Ahh, that's right. I forgot about things like this. I will edit the map manually. Thanks.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Well, playing the large map I'm actually thankful for once for large maintenance costs, since I'm playing Gongsun Zan who has a chance initially after you capture one of Yuan Shao's cities and make peace, and he probably did so because of his maintenance costs. (in fact, one of the first moves he had was to move almost all units back into his territory). I'm semi caught up with tech (I'm about 6th place in 204 AD) all thanks to the advisor forum (5+ gold initially) and the Tianlu library. Of course I'm aiming towards a cultural victory.

I think the maintenance modifier needs to be cut by about 25% then it would be perfect for both large and small civs.

 

[stmartin]

With Citrus Fruit, as long as you have the Anesthesia technology, a Fort, and a route, your civ can reap the benefits of Citrus Fruit very early without waiting for the ability to build Plantations from the Calendar technology. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not.

Kesshi, it's kind of strange but I tried to replicate the situation you mentioned above by putting a fort and a route on a citrus fruit and giving Liu Bei Anesthesia, but he neither get any happiness or healthiness nor any extra yield on the plot. Any idea?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Minor bug (not so minor for my game though): wheat on mountain in Gongsun Zan's territory (northeast of the city north of Quan Zhou)

 

[Kesshi]

Kesshi, it's kind of strange but I tried to replicate the situation you mentioned above by putting a fort and a route on a citrus fruit and giving Liu Bei Anesthesia, but he neither get any happiness or healthiness nor any extra yield on the plot. Any idea?

stmartin,

Here are two screenshots and an attached save.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

The steps I did to produce this secnario:

51x51 map - Leader Liu Biao

I went into World Builder and added the Fort and the Road. I then gave Liu Biao Anesthesia and Drainage System. I did Drainage System just so I could have "Calendar" in the research field so the screenshots would more accuretly show the bug in all its glory.

Hope this helps!

 

[Rod]

Hello,

I have the same problem with Cao Cao as AP. I have to run wealth in all cities except my capital (and still can only afford a 0% tech), I play on smallest map and on Emperor Level. Is that intended ??

I still hope i can manage by getting my cities bigger and conquer my neighbours but it is a pretty tough challenge.

 

[Kesshi]

Rod,

I just started up a game with the settings you said, and can easily manage my empire within a few turns. The very first thing I did was check the financial screen and noticed I was losing a lot of money due to unit costs. So I did the only rational thing that came to mind...I got rid of them in combat!

I launched a full assault upon both civs I was at war with (Bai Bo and Lu Bu), I hit both of them so hard and fast that I had to leave some cities undefended at times, but that was fine by me. For Lu Bu to fall I used the catapults to lower the cultural defenses down to 0% first, then I launched a full force attack with everything I had over there. I took heavy damages, but that helped me get rid of troops and lower the maintenance.

My capitol of Xu Chang was spamming Advocate of Unification. These give you +1 gold per city without the "holy shrine" for some reason. I'm still not sure why, but they do.*

*In the screenshot (and the attached save) you will see that I am building one more Advocate even though I don't need it. This was because one city converted before I was able to finish that Advocate. Oh well, I'll either send it off to someone who I have open boarders with or use it as a scout to explore with.

After all Advocates are finished my plan was to spam Workers from Xu Cheng until I had about 1 worker per city. The first thing I did with my 2 workers was build a Cottage 1E of Xu Cheng, and that was a mistake. I should have built a Farm 1SW. So I did that 2nd, and then ushered them off to build the Gold Mine of Qiao. After Qiao built its Granary, I decided to build the Terracotta Army followed by a Commanderies Government (Unification) and run a Great Prophet for the Great Prophet points. My plan is to get a Great Prophet as early as possible so that I could build the Unification shrine as fast as possible.

All other cities are building Granaries first, and will build Blacksmith Workshops if they're production heavy, otherwise they go onto Schools next.

For the first few turns of the game whenever a civ approached me and asked me for Open Boarders I agreed. My thinking is that nobody can demand that I cancel on them for the first 10 turns, so I should decide who I want to ally with quick and cancel those that are unfriendly with my desired allies. Unlike many other leaders, Cao Cao starts off with lots of trade routes, he can choose his allies and still benefit from the bonus Trade Route commerce.

I managed to recruit Chen Wu, and Yue Jin is also up for grabs for for a few dozen gold if I wanted him. Even if I recruited them both I would still have plenty of money left.

Here are some screenshots:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

My initial conclusion is that maintenance is just fine it its current form.

 

[Rod]

Hello,

well you know it did the same thing in my original game, however .. i won .. See my empire stretches already larger than yours in roughly the same time as I also went for Kong Rong and Yuan Shu (this guy south of you) and I had Lu Bu in my hands without waiting for 0% fortifications but attacked on 30%. However thanks to the awesome Legions I am just winning The idea was to get money by conquering (unfortunately the gold I got is not that much)

I even got more Heroes from Lu Bu (both of them) and from Kong Rong (and I recruited Yue Jin in the first turn) and so on.

See the best option is to delete troops, but who wants to delete valuabe Swordsmans and Axeman with heavy promotions ... The second best option is not to overexpand, but I was in the minus from the beginning hence I thought what the heck

Well, but I will continue and try to get my empire on a stable economic ground. For the meanwhile I must use the wealth production heavily and try to get a shrine. Not to mention cottages , cottages , cottages (unfortunately I do not really know where to build more workers )

I will spam these advocates too, to see what will happen.

I agree however that Cao Cao was way too easy in the old version. In the last version I was spamming workers and soon had cities of size 16+ and and a steady income of several hundreds per turn.

 

[Kesshi]

See the best option is to delete troops, but who wants to delete valuabe Swordsmans and Axeman with heavy promotions ... The second best option is not to overexpand, but I was in the minus from the beginning hence I thought what the heck

Rod,

If you loaded up the game at start and took look at the financial advisor, then compared it to what my financial advisor says in the screenshot you'll see that I have very little cost in troops. I'm typically fine with 5-10 gold per turn for supporting a strong army, if anything a strong army deturs people from attacking me and making me defend. Also my empire is in a state of growth so my troop cost will go down.

I'm willing to be that if you opened up your Financial Advisor you would see that your city mainteance is outrageous, but your troop cost wasn't that much.

Well, but I will continue and try to get my empire on a stable economic ground. For the meanwhile I must use the wealth production heavily and try to get a shrine. Not to mention cottages , cottages , cottages (unfortunately I do not really know where to build more workers )

I will spam these advocates too, to see what will happen.

It seems you overexpanded. Overexpanding via swords can be just as bad as overexpanding via settlers. But you did say something that perked my interest:

The idea was to get money by conquering (unfortunately the gold I got is not that much)

I know that the age of the city influences the gold you get from plundering it, that is to say that older cities are worth more money when you capture them, however in premade scenarios I'm not sure if it is possible to set a city creation date prior to the scenrio, or even if doing this would yield a larger capture value. In my opinion capturing some (not all) of the cities should give you more than the handful of gold it currently does in the first dozen or two turns. stmartin, are you familiar with the city capture value mechanic? (I have no idea if that is the correct term for it, so if you go digging through the code don't go looking for that exact term.)

 

[ono-neko]

Could be bug... there's no holy city for Revival for huge map? I know I can add it myself in the game with WB, but thought I mention it here...

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Probably not bug, as there's no holy city for Unification or Division either. (Only fair to the little players)

 

[Rod]

Hello,

there is a holy city for Unification - Xu Chang.

Regarding Maintenance for Cao Cao:

Yesterday I just played a little longer and replenished my finances by constant warfare and instantly gifting of the newly conquered cities to my neighbours. So as Cao Cao in spring 198 I just conquered Ye , my tech rate is 50%, all my cities are producing something (but not wealth) and I still keep 9 cities, despite having gifted 8 or 9 to my neighbours. So for a human player it is definitively possible to overcome the initial financial burden without cutting back on troops. However I noticed that the AI is doing badly, I mean they somehow dont seem to research very fast and their cities are almost unprotected- is the maintenance cost hitting them the same way ? If yes, then the AI will still run around with Archers and warriors in 220.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Rod, I meant there's no holy city for Unification, Revival OR Division in the huge map. There are holy cities for all beliefs in the large map, and also in the small map 2 religions aren't founded yet.

 

[stmartin]

Patch B for Release 2.01 is out. It's save game compatible. Changes:

V 0.212:
1. Add a new route: Post Road(like Railroad but slower)
2. Fix a BUG that the kfm file of SPEARMAN was incorrect
3. Increase the cost of Tianlu Library; Give resource bonus to Zheng's Academy
4. Reduce the happiness bonus of 5 resources
5. Despotism now gives large cities 1 unhappiness
6. Fix a BUG that the city name of Han Zhong was incorrect

V 0.213:
1. replaced icons for UnitCombat types（by koap）
2. changed Legion screen hero determination from using CyInterface().getHeadSelectedUnit() into directing passing hero's id（possible fixing OOS）
3. reduced city distance maintenance base value from 40 to 30
4. changed civic upkeep to original BTS value
5. increased city maintenance effect now require professional army tech
6. mounted unit now require horse or purebred horse to be within city border in order to be constructed at normal price, else if the player has respective resources mounted unit can still be built, but at 4* original price
7. hero experience required changed from 2*normal value to 3*, AI heroes will gain more XP in combat
8. fixed a bug that allow players to reap the benefit of Citrus Fruit with Fort and route and wrong tech prereq

V 0.214:
1. put legion promotions instead for naked heroes on the main interafce, bottom left
2. changed style of hero panel on the main interface，adjust main interface to avoid overlap between message area and commerce percent area
3. adjust main interface to show hero experience properly
4. adjust hero advisor to show hero experience needed in the next level
5. population weight of city maintenance will only increase when the city has more than 10 population
6. fix the BTS bug about defensive alliance attitude modifier
7. changed hero maintenance formula into: level * level / 4
8. fix a bug in legion core troop check widget help text that when clicking means promote as core troop it says click to exclude
9. add help info for civilization traits on various occasions
10. fixed a bug that sometimes one unit's ID be pushed into legion multiple times
11. fixed the never ending turn waiting time bug
12. fixed a bug that attack promotions give wrong terrain modifier
13. Zhang Yang's camp now will sprawl XianBei Horseman even if Zhang Yang's team don't have the tech prerequisite. Chance increases with elapsed turns.
14. replaced button for rogue promotion
15. added OOS logger
16. fixed a BTS bug that amphibious landing will cause OOS
17. triumph promotion's golden age chance increased to 20%
18. dread promotion's damage limit decreased from 50% to 30%
19. smart promotion's learn promotion chance increased from 10% to 25%