Restoring Friendly Relations

[Elgalad]

Going to lay down a little background, but since it might be a little long, it'll be inside a spoiler, please bear with me.

Spoiler :

I'm currently playing a game as Bismarck on the Prince level.

So I'm sharing a continent with Monty, Elizabeth, Gandhi, Washington, Darius, and Harun al-Rashid (?).

Up until about 1AD, I've been great friends with Washington and Gandhi, and they love each other as well. All the others are 'Neutral' save Elizabeth who just seems to dislike me for unknown reasons.

I've been an 'honorable' neighbor, only going after barbarians and not denouncing anyone, giving my friends resources when they ask, etc, and open borders as well (though only Gandhi and Washington asked). Basically, a good guy.

So I reach a point where I'm ready to start being 'assertive'.

It starts like this:

City-State Venice asks me to take out Singapore, which is right on my border and a good plum to take as I expand. I declare war and wipe out Singapore in about 10 turns with Landsknechts and swordsmen. As a result, Venice becomes my 4th city state 'ally'. Great!

I figure that since my troops are right there ready to go, and Monty's been Really frisky, expanding in a beeline right towards my empire, maybe I'll teach him a lesson and snap up a few of his close cities too, shove him back, knock him down a few pegs (his score was near the top of the list at the moment). Besides, no one really likes him, he has no 'friends' that I can see after checking the new diplomacy list.

But before I do, I go to my buddies George and Mohandes. George happily agrees to go to war for only 45 turns of gems and some gold, which I trade to him. Gandhi says no thanks, he has butterflies to pet or something.

Okay, so Washington declares war and I wait a turn so that Monty starts moving all his troops towards him and away from My border. (I'm not That nice of a guy, I figure my ally can tank for me while I play the rogue, heh)

Next turn I declare war on the Aztecs. All four of my city state allies do too, cool.

Okay, now the feces starts impacting the rotating ventilation device..

Darius, Harun, and Liz all denounce me. I figure fine, they weren't that close in the first place..

Then Gandhi Also denounces me. Now I"m a little perturbed.. I gave him the chance to play too and he didn't want to. Ah well, he's a tree hugging pacifist, whatever.

Okay, but then on the third turn After I declare war on the Aztecs, George Washington comes out with a scathing verbal attack on my character.

WTH!?

Hey, I PAID him to go to war with Montezuma. And though I didn't declare myself immediately, I didn't wait that long to do so. And we're both at war with the same guy, shouldn't that make him LOVE me even more now? What gives?

So anyway, I was only at war for 400 years or so (playing on epic level, not sure how many turns). Long enough to snap up 2 cities.

I offer peace, Monty jumps at it, pays me a third city, resources, lots of goodies (heck, he's almost totally surrounded by Washington, me, and 4 city states, he's desperate). I raze the city because it was junk and I wanted a little breathing room between him and me to expand into.

When -my- war ends with him, so do my city state allies, but Washington stays at war for another couple hundred years before he works things out with Monty too.

Okay, back to the purpose of the post..

So my question is this: how can I restore friendly relations with the AI leaders once they think I've been both a 'warmonger' and a 'betrayer'? Is it even possible?

I have plenty of resources to give away but no one wants them. I offer open borders and everyone will take them from me but won't give anything back in return. I'm staying inside my own lands, not being aggressive anymore (for now).

However unfair I think my reputation was sullied, I just want to know if there's any way to get it back. I'd really like to trade for luxuries I don't have and start some research agreements.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Edit: forgot to mention; My score is on top of the 'known' civs, but not that far ahead of everyone else. At least two of my neighbors are more technologically advanced than me. I have the most powerful military on the continent. And my happiness is well in the positive. Not sure if any of that helps or not.


-Elgalad

 

[Yzman]

If you are a backstabber they won't trust you for the rest of the game. I haven't seen anyone get out of this.

 

[Monthar]

Pick one Civ that others are friends with and that is friendliest to you (hates you the least). Give that civ each of your luxuries (even if you only have 1 copy) and strategic resources, but don't give them all in a single deal. Make a separate deal for each. Give them open borders. Don't ask what they'll give for these things and don't ask for anything, just give them away. If the civ you're trying to befriend gives you open borders, you could also move your obsolete military units and excess workers into their lands and gift them to that civ. You can also gift them some gold and GPT.

This may get that one civ to the point where you can get a friendship announcement with them. If you can get them to declare you as a friend, or at least agree to letting you do so, then their friends will likely do the same to you within a few turns.

The idea is you're trying to buy their love with everything you can possibly give them.

 

[Elgalad]

If you are a backstabber they won't trust you for the rest of the game. I haven't seen anyone get out of this.

That's understandable, though I'm not sure what I did to warrant the 'backstabber' mark.

I didn't have any deals with Monty when I declared war on him.. though there is one possibility: a few turns before I went to war, he was complaining about troops on his border (this was while I was attacking Singapore). I said, "sorry, I'll move them out" and I thought I did ~ none were Right on his border, but maybe the game figured they were still too close.

**

Anyways, assuming I Didn't have the backstab black mark, but just the 'warmongering' one, are there other options to restoring reputation with the AIs?


-Elgalad

 

[Elgalad]

Pick one Civ that others are friends with and that is friendliest to you (hates you the least). Give that civ each of your luxuries (even if you only have 1 copy) and strategic resources, but don't give them all in a single deal. Make a separate deal for each. Give them open borders. Don't ask what they'll give for these things and don't ask for anything, just give them away. If the civ you're trying to befriend gives you open borders, you could also move your obsolete military units and excess workers into their lands and gift them to that civ. You can also gift them some gold and GPT.

This may get that one civ to the point where you can get a friendship announcement with them. If you can get them to declare you as a friend, or at least agree to letting you do so, then their friends will likely do the same to you within a few turns.

The idea is you're trying to buy their love with everything you can possibly give them.

I'll try this, thanks.


-Elgalad

 

[Dralix]

That's understandable, though I'm not sure what I did to warrant the 'backstabber' mark.

Check the diplo tips for Washington and Montezuma. Which of them did you backstab, or both? Sounds like you backstabbed Washington by asking him to go to war, and then not declaring yourself.

I didn't have any deals with Monty when I declared war on him.. though there is one possibility: a few turns before I went to war, he was complaining about troops on his border (this was while I was attacking Singapore). I said, "sorry, I'll move them out" and I thought I did ~ none were Right on his border, but maybe the game figured they were still too close.

My understanding is that if you say "just passing through" and then DoW within some amount of turns, you take a diplo hit. Not sure if this is confirmed, what the number of turns is, or if this is a backstab or just a hit to relations.

 

[elthrasher]

That's understandable, though I'm not sure what I did to warrant the 'backstabber' mark.

I didn't have any deals with Monty when I declared war on him.. though there is one possibility: a few turns before I went to war, he was complaining about troops on his border (this was while I was attacking Singapore). I said, "sorry, I'll move them out" and I thought I did ~ none were Right on his border, but maybe the game figured they were still too close.

**

Anyways, assuming I Didn't have the backstab black mark, but just the 'warmongering' one, are there other options to restoring reputation with the AIs?


-Elgalad

When an AI asks you if you're coming to attack and you say no, you basically can't ever attack that AI without earning the backstabber reputation. There may be a time limit on this, but I don't know what it is. Certainly hundreds of years can pass and you'll still be a backstabber.

There's almost no way to restore friendly relations in this game. Time heals some wounds, but I've never seen or heard of an AI agreeing to friendship after having been the slightest bit annoyed by anything. Maybe it's different on Prince level, but I expect you'll probably never fully restore relations.

 

[EndoConvert]

There's almost no way to restore friendly relations in this game. Time heals some wounds, but I've never seen or heard of an AI agreeing to friendship after having been the slightest bit annoyed by anything. Maybe it's different on Prince level, but I expect you'll probably never fully restore relations.

Yes, this is unfortunately correct, and one of the worst things about this game. Diplomacy is completely unrealistic and totally broken; the AIs will basically hate you for just about everything you do. Almost all the modifiers are negative, and there are almost no positive modifiers.

I've given AIs massive amounts of stuff for free over the course of centuries, and it doesn't change their attitude toward you.

They really, really need to patch the game to have more positive modifiers.

 

[Elgalad]

After looking closer at the AIs, it looks like only Monty thinks I'm a 'backstabber'.

Curiously, while everyone doesn't trust me because 'my friends denounced me ~ I'm guessing because Washington and Gandhi did that, both of THEIR reports say that They backstabbed Me.

So maybe this is just the AI being sneaky, I don't know.

I don't really need to make friends that bad with any of my neighbors anyway, there's at least one other big continent full of folks who've never met me. Some of them might be willing to trade for junk.

It would have been kind of nice though, for a chance to do a mea culpa and 'buy my way back' to the light side of the force.


-Elgalad

 

[chgrogers]

Im thinking that you never denounced monty before you DOW on him. If money was the one that you backstabbed I would check what deals you made with him. One of them will be toward a friendship agreement. Declaring war without denouncing is equal to a surprise blitz without any warning to the effect.

 

[Yzman]

The thing that makes you a backstabber is saying that your troops are just passing through and then attacking. It doesn't seem to have a time limit either...You can tell because it will say, "You have betrayed your word, I will let everyone know of your treachery"

 

[Elgalad]

Hrm.. well I tried out being Real nice for several hundred years.

Finally explored the other continent and met Greece, Japan, and the Songhai. They were all neutral to me, all denounced me right off the bat since I had that bad rep.

Then strangest of things, about 10 turns later, everyone started turning 'friendly'. America even jumped right from Hostile to friendly and offered me open borders (both ways) as well as luxuries again. So did most of the other countries.

I guess time healed those wounds after all.

Now on to the science victory I've been working towards..


-Elgalad

 

[Supp]

Personally, I have had success with beating them down till they have one or two weak cities left.

Then they adore me.

 

[DaveGold]

a few turns before I went to war, he was complaining about troops on his border (this was while I was attacking Singapore). I said, "sorry, I'll move them out" and I thought I did ~ none were Right on his border, but maybe the game figured they were still too close.

Yes this is it. For a number of turns, known only to the AI, if you declare war after giving this promise you've become publicly untrustworthy. The same goes for settling.

This is a typical case of the AI seemingly knowing all the rules of the game while you're left in the dark. The AI will give this promise (typically settling) and a number of turns later settle on your border anyway. Perhaps the deal has expired, we don't know. Perhaps they're cheating you, we don't know. You certainly don't get an option to discredit them.