Resurrecting the Aifons - a sea-dwelling civ for FF

[Valkrionn]

The issue with a spell is that the AI can't understand it well. I'm planning on trying to edit the DLL to allow a python call BEFORE a new city is created rather than after for the Kuriotate forts in my mod so if I get it to work it should work for this as well. Hopefully without the need of generating an island as well.

 

[black_imperator]

very interesting.

if we take the one city idea, we can found the city when the aifons spawn so we don't need for a spell ( but i would rather have this one since one city isn't enough^^)

 

[Valkrionn]

If I make an aquatic civ (And I'm giving it some serious thought), I'd want at least two. I don't want another coastal civ, I want an ocean dwelling one... So at least two, to get some competition and the whole Ljosalfar/Svartalfar and Mazatl/Cualli thing. So some method of settling would be vital. Think I'll check some other mods to see how they did it.

 

[WarKirby]

I don't want another coastal civ, I want an ocean dwelling one

I agree with this.

But I'm not certain about the need for two of them. The ocean in many maps is large enough that two civs sharing it still won't compete much. I think it would be unnecessary effort to make two civs, and it dilutes your time and resources in creating them. Make two good civs, or one great civ. I know what I would choose.

 

[Valkrionn]

haha I would make two great ones myself.

 

[black_imperator]

we should make one at first and then a second if the first one is a success( we will have enough ideas for both in my opinion)

for me an aifon civ is a priority , i'll wait ff051 and then i'll work on it

 

[Valkrionn]

That's actually one thing I refuse to do. Aifons are dead... Don't want to butcher lore bringing them back. I'd much rather create new civs, adding to lore rather than change it.

 

[WarKirby]

we? oh, are you helping too ?

I'm the resident art guy around here, so I'll probably get roped into making a unit, or a building or two

 

[black_imperator]

in fact , the problem with adding two oceanic civs totally unrelated to the Aifons is the problem that the more things you add to the lore the more difficult it will be to make them fit it. It's easier to make something with what already exists

Aifons have disappeared, true, but what happened for example to people who were half aifon, half human. ( already mentionned somewhere i think) . perhaps they also disappeared, but it is not explicitely stated. Perhaps they avoided the malediction by their human blood, and, after the destruction of the others, they were hunted by humans ( superstition about malediction is easy to think ^^) and had to hide themselves on the Aifon Isle.

yes i'll help , i can do some code ^^

 

[UNIT 666]

So, they'll have a limited number of cities, yes? Or only one? But, what are they going to do for resources like metal, horses, and mana? Is there going to be a whole subset of ocean terrains for them?

And the race needn't be coast based (although I don't really see the problem with this, coastal territory is always desirable) they can, instead, be island-based. And I mean ISLANDS!

Another thing to keep in mind is civics.


I suppose what I'm trying to communicate is... I don't see how a purely ocean-based civ can work, as it will need a whole bunch of accommodations on all levels to function.

 

[Valkrionn]

Not really... I'm already planning on adding Kelp and possibly Coral, possibly as features, so allowing them in ocean as well as coast should be easy. So would adding an underwater mana resource... Why should all mana crystals be on land? Horses wouldn't make sense for an aquatic civ, same way metal/industrial activities wouldn't... Hard to smelt things underwater. I like the coral idea there.

What do you mean with the civics? I don't see why you'd have to worry about them much... Some wouldn't make sense for the civ, some would be more important. Most civs are like that.

 

[WarKirby]

Seahorses would make sense

A chariot pulled by seahorses for a chariot UU....

I think a sea based production resource is needed. Perhaps just "Minerals" like in alpha centaurii.


I'd suggest having Kelp as a feature, which gives +1 food. And a Deep Mine improvement that they could build anywhere, and which gives +1 (Not +2 like normal mines) Kelp should be something which you can build stuff in without removing it, and it should also give some sort of movement/strength penalty to naval units, allowing it to be used as minor defence against those surface dwellers

Some other possible features...


Geothermal Vent: Gives a significant amount of commerce on the tile

Coral I think, could give a small amount of both and

In general though, I would advise to keep sources of relatively small and not easy to get. So that this civ would be somewhat industrially hampered, as a tradeoff for the vast amount of commerce and food they're going to have.

 

[Valkrionn]

That's actually what I'm thinking, plenty of food, a little commerce(most should come from trading), and very little production.

 

[armyofwhispers]

If I make an aquatic civ (And I'm giving it some serious thought), I'd want at least two. I don't want another coastal civ, I want an ocean dwelling one... So at least two, to get some competition and the whole Ljosalfar/Svartalfar and Mazatl/Cualli thing. So some method of settling would be vital. Think I'll check some other mods to see how they did it.

If you're looking for ideas on the second one at all, there's my idea from a couple pages ago. I'm thinking this ice civ as focussing on the beauty of ice rather than the stark bleakness that it represents most in FFH.

Spoiler :

name: Glacialis Moenia (frozen castle in latin)

palace mana: ice
water
creation

civ trait: #cities cannot exceed #of ice/water mana available

leader: Fricas Servitas

traits: creative
arcane (since they magically freeze water into their cities)
Waterbound*

*new trait: Waterbound - all units get the 'from the deep' promotion

from the deep: waterwalking, +10% ocean combat, -10% land combat, -20% desert combat (no bonusfor coast), double movement in ocean, no penalty for attacking from sea/accross rivers.

unique buildings: frozen vista(festival), ice sculpture (monument), cold forge (forge)(requires mage guild)

unique units: iceberg(settler unit), worker (able to build sea improvements), Land walker(assasin), land-stalker(shadow)

I'd love to be able to work on this myself, but I honestly don't have the time. Feel free to use/change any of my ideas here.

 

[citizenalex]

Maybe the Aifons could be like some bonus civ that is triggered after a quest. Kinda like the Mercurian Gate or Infernal Pact and then you choose to lead them or let them roam around.

Instead of building a wonder or researching a tech, I was thinking of neat way to get the process started would be to raze the Octo Overlords Holy City. As a symbolic gesture to awaken Danalin who essentially dreamed the Overlords to life (forget me if i misread the history).

Maybe a new bonus religion could come up after the Aifons are resurected, one specific to Danalin that's a kind of waterborne Fellowship (i.e, Changes your ocean squares in a way that brings up the prod. value).

It would add a lot of new opportunities for conflict between civs (one who follows the awakening quest can wipe out another civ's religion) and because of the prerequisites it's safe to say they are unlikely to pop up early on. Maybe it's a better compromise because a lot of the stuff being proposed here has some balancing issues, and starting anew 150+turns in the game like infernals or mercurians usually does a great job at limiting this balancing problem.

 

[UNIT 666]

The Fellowship of the Waves, huh? I don't think removing the Octopus Overlords from the game is a wise move, however as - from what I understand - awakening Danalin would remove all divine power from the Overlords religion. So even if people still followed it, Drown, Stygian Guards, priests, etc. would be gone and it would be like a normal Civ4 religion.

 

[black_imperator]

d'ont think tha would be totally true. The Overlords come from the dreams of Danalin ( helped by Hastur) but they are now real. Even awaking Danalin wouldn't make them disappear. But it would be a religious and oceanic battle.

 

[Tasunke]

Well, I have some ideas for the Fellowship of the Waves. divine tier II is "call of the sharks" and will summon a large, strength 6 (or higher?) permanent summon, that does collateral damage like a bezerker, as well as a high-ish withdrawal rate (50%?) similar to the summon tiger spell.

Divine III could be Passage of Danalin, which works alot like (the teleporting)maelstrom on either on unit in the stack, or the whole stack ... Im thinking one unit. This unit would have a small chance to die, perhaps, although is transported to a random water tile, minimum of 10 tiles away (5 on small maps, 2 on duel?) Edit: also, passage of Danalin could automatically be used on all units with the OO religion in stack, or have a 50 or 60% chance of triggering on all OO units in the stack. Goodbyyyyy stacks of Stygian guards ... XD

Danalin/Fellowship of Waves spells can only be cast if the caster is on the water. Or on a boat in a coastal city? all Danalin priests start with waterwalking, and a Danalin priest can be sacrificed to give waterwalking to an entire stack. Call it "mission of the waves" or something.

its also possible that the whole stack waterwalking thing could only be accessible by the specialty water civ(s)

 

[aragogthebest]

If I make an aquatic civ (And I'm giving it some serious thought), I'd want at least two. I don't want another coastal civ, I want an ocean dwelling one... So at least two, to get some competition and the whole Ljosalfar/Svartalfar and Mazatl/Cualli thing. So some method of settling would be vital. Think I'll check some other mods to see how they did it.

I agree with this

haha I would make two great ones myself.

this to

mayby you could use corral as metals instead

 

[Valkrionn]

That's actually something I thought of... Haven't found any graphics yet though.