Return of the SANDANISTA!

[Masquerouge]

looks like he did it!

link

For better or for worse, the Sandinistas are back!

EDIT: An interesting side-note, in case people were wondering if Ortega's attempts at reconcilliation are genuine: his vp running mate is Jaime Morales, once the spokesperson for the Contras.

Well well well. This could be... interesting. What will the US do?

 

[Che Guava]

In Colombia for decades the FARCs threatned urban centers, in fact at one point they controlled 40% of the country. And they were funded by a very major donor named Soviet Union.

I still don't think the comparisan is fair: the contras were much better armed and trained than FARC, and never received anything more than a bit of token aid from the USSR or anyone else. The contras on the other hand...

As for the economy, of course they were harmful, but Colombia is not worse than it's neighbours and today is actually doing better than most.

Whatever economic upswing they have had I would argue they owe primarily to aid and trade with the US, something that Nicaragua was never offered.

You can't accuse the US of raping everyone and than complaint that they don't trade with you. This is simple international politics.

IIRC, the US placed an embargo before that rhetoric began, not after. Besdies, I'm not here to justify Castro and Cuba, this debate was supposed to be about why nicaragua doesn't have a great economy.

It's a joke in a multi-party country.

Imagine my scenario where someone with a 64% rejection is elected. This is a mockery of democracy.

It's not a joke in my country, and we've got 4 major parties and more on the rise. Somehow we manage to make it work. How's democracy working in your country? I seem to recall that you had some beefs with that...

 

[luiz]

I still don't think the comparisan is fair: the contras were much better armed and trained than FARC, and never received anything more than a bit of token aid from the USSR or anyone else. The contras on the other hand...

if anything the FARCs were far more damaging than the Contras, and they received plenty from both the SU and their proxy, Cuba.

While true that there has been american aid and trade to Colombia, this is due to the fact that the colombian gvt. signes a free trade agreement with the US and has a good neighbourhood policy.

Whatever economic upswing they have had I would argue they owe primarily to aid and trade with the US, something that Nicaragua was never offered.

Well Nicaragua joined the CAFTA and can trade freely with the US if they so desire. But Ortega would rather see his country isolated from the US so that he can blame them for his mismanegement. One of his proposals is exactly to wirthdraw from the treaty.

It's exactly like Castro, actually. He does everything to destroy commercial relations with the US, and when the economy collapse he blames the yankee pigs for not wanting to trade with him.

IIRC, the US placed an embargo before that rhetoric began, not after. Besdies, I'm not here to justify Castro and Cuba, this debate was supposed to be about why nicaragua doesn't have a great economy.

The rhetoric begun as soon as Castro made his first moves in Sierra Maestra. Kicking the US out of Cuba was one of his biggest platforms.

It's not a joke in my country, and we've got 4 major parties and more on the rise. Somehow we manage to make it work. How's democracy working in your country? I seem to recall that you had some beefs with that...

Do you elect prime-ministers with 60% rejection? If so it is certainly a joke.

As for my country, democracy as in "will of the people" is working just fine. Some other aspects of a good government though are not working in here.

 

[Che Guava]

if anything the FARCs were far more damaging than the Contras, and they received plenty from both the SU and their proxy, Cuba.

I haven't seen any convincing proof of significant support fromanyone. If you have some, I'd like to see it.

While true that there has been american aid and trade to Colombia, this is due to the fact that the colombian gvt. signes a free trade agreement with the US and has a good neighbourhood policy

Didn't the past gov't of nicaragua do the same thing?

It's exactly like Castro, actually. He does everything to destroy commercial relations with the US, and when the economy collapse he blames the yankee pigs for not wanting to trade with him.

What commercial relations? They have had none since 1960. Look, I thin that Castro is as much as a joke as you probably do, but if the US abandonned thier idiotic embargo of the coutry, your average cuban would be doing a lot better and would probably be more likely to challenge the status quo.

The rhetoric begun as soon as Castro made his first moves in Sierra Maestra. Kicking the US out of Cuba was one of his biggest platforms.

Is that why he went to visit washington after he took power? IIRC, the US ended relations with him when he announced that he was open o the idea of socialism (!)

Do you elect prime-ministers with 60% rejection? If so it is certainly a joke.

We don't directly elect our PM, but we certanly do elect representatives like that. If you think that's a joke, well, what can i say? It works just fine for us...

As for my country, democracy as in "will of the people" is working just fine. Some other aspects of a good government though are not working in here

Best of luck with that.

 

[luiz]

I haven't seen any convincing proof of significant support fromanyone. If you have some, I'd like to see it.

It is evident, looking at their history, that they received substancial funding.

But what matters is not the funding, but rather their power when compared to the Contras. And I maintain that at their peak they were far more powerful then the Contras ever were.

Didn't the past gov't of nicaragua do the same thing?

The Somozas has a good relation with the US, but no free trade deal that I'm aware of.

What commercial relations? They have had none since 1960. Look, I thin that Castro is as much as a joke as you probably do, but if the US abandonned thier idiotic embargo of the coutry, your average cuban would be doing a lot better and would probably be more likely to challenge the status quo.

The commercial relations that the cuban revolution destroyed.

Is that why he went to visit washington after he took power? IIRC, the US ended relations with him when he announced that he was open o the idea of socialism (!)

The tried to keep Castro away from socialism because that meant seizing their multi-billion dollar interests in the island. The seizure is ultimately what lead to the end of the commercial relations, and that is quite expectable.

We don't directly elect our PM, but we certanly do elect representatives like that. If you think that's a joke, well, what can i say? It works just fine for us...

Look, it's simple. Nicaragua elected a president who is rejected by the majority. In a second round he would lose by a big margin. This could be easily solved if a first round win required 50%+1 of the total votes, instead of the moronic 35% that makes absolutely no sense.

There is no way in hell this is democratic, no matter how you spin it.

 

[amadeus]

I say it's high time we reconsider our policy on assassinating foreign troublemakers.

 

[CaptainF]

I say it's high time we reconsider our policy on assassinating foreign troublemakers.

Who cares?

Let the Nicaraguans eff themselves if they want to.

 

[Trajan12]

Hehe Che Guava and Luiz have the same guy on teir avatar, if no one already noticed.

 

[Che Guava]

Look, it's simple. Nicaragua elected a president who is rejected by the majority. In a second round he would lose by a big margin. This could be easily solved if a first round win required 50%+1 of the total votes, instead of the moronic 35% that makes absolutely no sense.

There is no way in hell this is democratic, no matter how you spin it.

I'll let the citizens of Canada and the US know that they don't live in a democracy...

As for the rest, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the future brings nicaragua, now that Ortega is for all intents and purposes thier next leader....

 

[luiz]

I'll let the citizens of Canada and the US know that they don't live in a democracy...

The US is a two-party system, and the winner candidate nearly always has over 50% of the votes. And when he doesn't, what IIRC only happened 2 times in history, he has 48% or 49%. In other words he is never rejected by the majority.

As for Canada, it is has a Parliamentary system so no comparisson is fit.

The point, and there is no way to deny this, is that electing someone whom 64% of the people voted against is not democratic at all, it is a mockery and it is a disgrace.

 

[civdood]

for good of people musta kill ortega so quickly. ortega och chavez both do much bad to people, no good escept to self just like all sickness men in history stalin, hitler, ayatolla, saddam, tito, castro, tojo, maotzetung, polpot, and so on. such bad bad bad men.