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Return of the Shadow: The War of the Ring

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by Lord Malbeth, Jun 12, 2009.

  1. Lord Malbeth

    Lord Malbeth Chieftain

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    You don't know how big my smile is. :) That is a story that would impress even The Professor himself. You should submit that to the Stories & Tales section. :D

    And now, about the patch, it's nearly finished. Since you all agreed to it, I think I'll just post a new download for you all to re-download the scenario. Hopefully, some of the minor problems will be fixed. :goodjob: Thanks...
     
  2. HectorOfTroy

    HectorOfTroy Chieftain

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    You, Lord MalBeth, you are most kind! :) Thank you very much, this is really important for me, as I haven't done much writing until now.
     
  3. Lord Malbeth

    Lord Malbeth Chieftain

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    Not a problem. ;) I thoroughly enjoyed it. :goodjob:
     
  4. Arc Terrat

    Arc Terrat Chieftain

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    I'm also fine re-downloading, whatever will get us more awesomeness faster and easier! Just say the word as to when it's ready...
     
  5. Lord Malbeth

    Lord Malbeth Chieftain

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    Alrighty... I'll get on it immediately.
     
  6. nick0515

    nick0515 Fantasy World Builder

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    I'm happy to re-download. Sadly I have only had a few short chances to test the scenario. My first game was Rohan, and I got completely womped on the middle difficulty setting (Original civ Monarchy). Had some bad luck in the first few turns with some appallingly bad defence which resulted in Isengard razing a city. Held them off for a while, but then Morder started pouring troops into my territory. Held out for a little while longer but then Isengard started a huge offensive against me and my lands were over run. Short game, but fun none-the-less. Can't wait for the new version.

    One question (and not a criticism), why didn't you use more of the great unit graphics available on this site? You've used a lot of original civ units that could have been replaced with better looking units in my opinion. Eg. Rohirrim is a Keshik, but you could have used Utahjazz's great unit or something else.

    Still love this scenario, and hopefully soon I will have some spare time to paly a few more games.

    Have you thought about making a version where you control just the fellowship. ie: you would have to have one city somewhere (required by the game I believe, otherwise you lose after first turn!?) but you can't build any buildings or units. But you start with all the heroes of the fellowship and have to try to get the ring victory.

    Nick
     
  7. Arc Terrat

    Arc Terrat Chieftain

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    I was thinking something similar Nick, only making the Shire in control of the Fellowship, and combining all the BIQs. I think the problem, however, will be in that it's really HARD to return the ring if you don't control a military that can take Minas Morgul. The way Mordor is laid out, even if the Nazgul units are gone, Frodo and Sam still get stepped on in the pass, and killed, before they can reach Mt. Doom. Unless you've taken Minas Morgul, in which case Sauron is worried about other things, and your units can hide better. Or, I suppose, if you attacked the Black Gates and distracted the orcs north. Haven't tried that while seeking to return the ring yet.
     
  8. nick0515

    nick0515 Fantasy World Builder

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    Good points. I haven't played enough unfortunately to know the ins-and-outs of the ring quest. I guess a fellowship-only scenero might require some balancing changes to make it work. The heroes could all be beefed up in light of no army for one thing.

    Nick
     
  9. nick0515

    nick0515 Fantasy World Builder

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    Finally got some time to test this properly. Started a game as the elves. Had about ten turns. Going very well. Used HectorOfTroy's trick of trading techs and maps with Allies and made tons of money. Have been using it mostly to rush Elvish bowmen. Mostly fought Barbs so far, lots of them around which is fun. Captured Gollum too which was a fun suprise.

    Am about to take Dol Guldur. Sending some troops down to help Rohan who have already lost two razed cities already. Also spent lots of money to get the ents on side, mutual protection pact and right of passage. Would have liked to pay them to go to war with Isengard and Mordor, but that option wan't available. Why is that? Do I need a tech for it? Is this intentional to stop the Elves from getting the Ents to attack Isengard too soon? They have decleared war on Mordor though as they attacked me.

    A few things to mention. Sorry if they have already been said.

    - Legolas' unit name is Lord Elrond, though the civilopedia correctly labels him.
    - Also it seems strange to me that Legolas has a range of 0 when normal Elvish Bowmen have a range of 2. Although his bombard is very high so I guess he would be very powerful if he had 2 range. Actually now that I mention it 2 range is perhaps 1 too high for the Elvish Bowmen.
    - The Bardings leader pic seems to have some problems in the diplomacy advisor screen. Has a square black boarder around it.
    - The civilopedia descritption of the runestone still references it as Civil Defense.
    - Am I supossed to be able to build human Archers and Swordsmen in my Elvish cities as well as Elvish units?

    Hope that was all constructive and useful. I am rather enjoying this and can't wait for the update.

    Nick
     
  10. HectorOfTroy

    HectorOfTroy Chieftain

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    I think the Ents had not yet met neither Isengard nor Mordor, and that is why you couldn't propose them an alliance agaisnt any of them.

    I have seen quite a number of discrepancies between the civilopedia description and the units, improvements, etc. ... I thought that, because the scenario is in the testing phase, some things - life points, etc. - may change (and they did), so the civilopedia should be one of the last things to change. But if you think it would be useful, I could start to do a list...
     
  11. nick0515

    nick0515 Fantasy World Builder

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    Of course, didn't think of that.

    Lord Malbeth:

    One more suggestion. Elvish Swordsmen seems to be an entirely redundant unit. You have to research a tech to get it and it is considerably worse than Elvish bowmen. Perhaps they need to be made better than the Bowmen.

    Elvish game (Monarchy equivilent difficulty) is going well but slow. Managed to help Rohan keep Isengard at bay but not conquer them yet. Also have been sending most troops down to help defend Minus Tirith, which has been an epic battle which is still going on. Though I'm slowly building up a big enough force to take out Minus morgal.

    Fun times. Really captures the feeling of the books.

    Cheers

    Nick
     
  12. nick0515

    nick0515 Fantasy World Builder

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    Well the game finished after 2 hrs, 49 mins, 55 secs. The goodies won. Frodo managed to slip past Minus Morgal, taking only a 1 hitpoint loss from passing the Witch King. The witch king did not following him as my army killed him the next turn, then I took Minus Morgal just before the ring was returned. Good fun.
     
  13. HectorOfTroy

    HectorOfTroy Chieftain

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    Some possible bugs I have run into during my Mordor game:

    - I have traded wines with the Easterlings, but instead of helping my citizen moods, they appeared in the city view as a strategic resource;
    - I have connected oliphaunts by means of a colony, but they appeared as a luxury view, helping my citizen moods, but not enablling me to build Mumikils;
    - After obtaining horses, I could build Royal Cavalry - I don't know if this is not supposed to be one of Gondor's unique units; than again, it may be one of the common units, available to all players;
    - Slaves can not enter hills;
    - The Grond is named Battering Ram; also, the grond has attack and defense points, not sure an artilerry piece should have them; on the other side, they are one of the few good thinghs Mordor has, and they require to research one advance, so from the point of view of playing I think they should be kept as such, especially as I think you had a reason related to the books when you modelled them as such;

    Hope this helps.
     
  14. HectorOfTroy

    HectorOfTroy Chieftain

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    After the fall of Gondor, the war was more about logistics and slowly advancing. I sent slaves to built roads towards Rohan and south. I have painfully slowly taken Eastfold and Aldburg, figthing Rohan Garrisons and Longbowmen in the open before fighting them in the towns. I did not go directly for Edoras, the Rohan capital, as I wanted to take as many towns possible before destroying Rohan (because I want a new army, but I need at least 5 cities per army and I can not prepare settlers).

    Domestic: Finished building Barrows and Training Halls in all cities. Started to irigate the desert, in the hope of increasing a little bit the population.

    Trade: The roads got me oliphaunts, horses and traded wines.

    Military: I pretty much concentrated on Longbowmen and, after having horses, some Royal Cavalry but, as these are expensive, just after having researched Castle Building, all my cities began building Gronds. These are really great, cheaper than orcs and as strong as a Royal Cavalry with a bombarding power bigger than an Elvish Bowman. Until now, the Barrow-Wights proved really useful, the Barrow and the Training Hall are definetly a must have for every Mordor city.

    Foreign: When I was getting dangerously close of Aldburg, and implicitly, of the Ents, I succeded in making peace with them, and even get them to ally against all of my enemies they knew. They also offered me Master Carving, and in exchange I agreed to give them 40+ gold per turn :evil: . From my palantir visions I have seen they had much trouble with the Elves, but succeded in holding Lothlorien until now. Dunland felt in face of the rampaging forces of the Shire. Isengard had to deal with a big Rohan invasion force, but stood firm. What had left of this force was distracted by my approaching Helm's Deep, backed to defend this city and got destroyed.

    Science: This is actually quite a difficult problem. After a 30 turn research of Castle Building, the candidats I am considering for the next discovery are:
    - The Return of the Shadow, not so much for the Trolls as for being needed by Dark Dominion, which, on the other hand, is very far;
    - Mercantilism, if the halfed conversion ratio between shields and gold apply for rushing units too; btw, does anybody have any idea about this?
    - Milling, althougth I doubt I will buid many mills;
    If the conversion ratio applies to rushing too, Mercantilism would be the best choice. For the moment, I chose The Return of the Shadow, but I am also considering a zero-science approach also.

    Current turn: 32. No sign of any member of the Fellowship yet.

    Future: I have quite a force in front of Helm's Deep.I am sure it will be a hard battle.
     
  15. Lord Malbeth

    Lord Malbeth Chieftain

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    Glad you guys are still enjoying this scenario. As pointed out, there are some minor problems since this is in its feedback phase. :) (EDIT: HeHe, changed this to cover my bottom. ;) )

    HectorOfTroy - If you wish to start creating a 'Civilopedia Glitch List' that would be extremely helpful. ;)

    nick0515 - Thank you for all the feedback! It will inevitably help to make this scenario even better. One thing you mentioned, is the lack of unit graphics. In the new update, this will be changed. I'm adding the different units made here on the forum, including Utahjazz's units. ;) Minor problems (Such as Legolas erroneously labeled 'Lord Elrond') will be fixed. :)
     
  16. nick0515

    nick0515 Fantasy World Builder

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    That's great! It's already a very fun scenario! Some more flavour units will be nice , though it already captured the feel of Middle Earth very well. I'll keep posting any name or civilopedia bugs when I see them. I guess if HectorOfTroy makes a list I'll let him know them. We could keep the list all in one post and he could keep editing it. Whatever you think is best. I'll enjoy helping you get this Scenario past the testing phase to a polished finished product!

    :goodjob:

    Nick
     
  17. HectorOfTroy

    HectorOfTroy Chieftain

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    I think is a good thing to have all the list in one post. As Nick suggested, I will begin work on this and edit it as we find new problems.
     
  18. Arc Terrat

    Arc Terrat Chieftain

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    Lord Malbeth, have you thought of offering this map for the LotM group that has their mod? I saw you'd offered your others, but this one is frankly the most realistic, imho.
     
  19. Lord Malbeth

    Lord Malbeth Chieftain

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    I would... but It's not really mine, it's a heavily modified version of one by Hagburt. It was made awhile ago, but, alas, there were some problems with it that I fixed. If they would like to use it, I'd be inclined to offer it, but I have a feeling they're happy with Hagburt's original. :)

    Thank you, though, for the compliment. ;)
     
  20. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    so maybe it should be in the main forum after all, rather than the Completed Scenarios forum? ;)
     

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