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Reworking the Victories

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Linklite, Apr 8, 2021 at 6:51 AM.

?

Which Victories do you think could do with being changed?

This poll will close on Nov 8, 2021 at 5:51 AM.
  1. Cultural Victory.

    19 vote(s)
    30.6%
  2. Diplomatic Victory.

    50 vote(s)
    80.6%
  3. Domination Victory.

    7 vote(s)
    11.3%
  4. Science Victory.

    15 vote(s)
    24.2%
  5. Score Victory.

    12 vote(s)
    19.4%
  6. Religious Victory.

    34 vote(s)
    54.8%
  7. None, they should all be left alone.

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  8. Don't care either way.

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Linklite

    Linklite King

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    I'm currently doing a Diplo game, and I think some of the Victories need a rework. Ideally for Civ VI, but at this point more realistically for Civ VII. Which ones do you think need to be redone or altered? Why and in what way? I've put a poll up so we can see at a glance if one Victory as a lot of love or hate at a glance.

    Premises of the discussion:
    1. The Victories are not to be completely dismissed on grounds of distaste (eg, "I don't like religion, so there shouldn't be a religious victory").
    2. The context will be current Civ VI mechanics unless you explicitly state otherwise.
    3. Areas that be considered are (but not limited to):
      1. How you win.
      2. What you do to achieve that condition (ie for a CV, you build lots of Wonders, Theatre Districts, GWAMs, etc).
      3. If there are multiple strategies for achieving the Victory.
      4. What the meaning of that Victory is or should be (for example, a DomV means that you are militarily dominant and effectively control all the important aspects of the map) and whether that is good spirit for the Victory.
      5. If it is too "gameified".
      6. Whether it is balanced (ie, it's bad if you will always win with it or if you never get round to it because you'll always win with some other Victory before reaching the criteria).
      7. If the Victory is intentional or if you can win it accidentally.
      8. Whether the Victory is organic and integrated with the other Victories.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021 at 7:24 AM
  2. Linklite

    Linklite King

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    My thoughts on the various Victories:

    Score
    I think this is fine. It's a little gameified, but as a tie breaker, I think it does a good job of basically saying that the most potent civ wins.

    Cultural
    I think this is mostly great and one of my favourite Victories. The spirit of it is to overwhelm other civs and make yourself the centrepoint of the world. I think the mechanics of it does it really well. How you achieve it (Wonders, Theatre Squares, GWAMs, and so forth) is both varied and makes sense in how they relate to the Victory and its theme. There is also a large variety of strategies to get it. The only two hangups I have are that it's become too easy with recent developments (I generally have to turn it off if I want to get another Victory other than Domination) and after a recentish discussion, the use of the term "tourism". It implies that tourism provides the value of the culture (nonsense) and I don't think that's what the spirit is about anyway. I don't know of a better term though.

    Domination
    I think this is pretty good as is. It represents smashing the other civs and being militarily dominant. While it's not perfect, I think it's a great compromise due to this being a game and requiring a hard definition of what it means to win.

    Religious
    I don't know what to do about this. The problem is that it's not integrated at all with the other Victories. It's almost completely separate. It's not terrible, but I feel it really needs to be more organic in the mechanics. All the other Victories flow from one another (apart from maybe Diplomatic), but this requires a strategy and set up that is completely different to the others. I'd like it more synergised with them.

    Science
    My beef with this one is that it's too focused and doesn't make me feel like I'm scientifically dominant. It's just a race to a fixed point. I think if there were multiple objectives that you have to achieve, it would feel more like you were scientifically dominant. For example, have the exoplanet expedition requirement, but also require the full tech tree to be researched and perhaps build an infinite energy machine of some kind or something. I'm flexible on the actual conditions, but I want to feel like my civ has become the pinnacle of technological evolution or that I've slammed my opponents (like with the CV). The exoplanet doesn't do that. If there weren't the Victory screen, I wouldn't feel like it was anything particularly special about the project. It feels more like a stepping stone than an end goal.

    The other issue for me is that there isn't really multiple strategies to work with. Tactics on how you get the science, sure, but not strategy. The CV gives you the choices of either creating attractions (GWAMs, Wonders, etc), or ramping up culture. SV is basically just ramp up science, then build a project. I'd like more variety.

    Diplomatic
    OK, this is the one I really want changed. It feels too artificial. You basically win by winning a few debates...why? What does mean in the real world? I feel the inputs are mostly good (be suzerain a lot, trade for diplo, build diplomatic district, have longlasting alliances, etc), but what you do with it doesn't feel like you do much in a meaningful way. It also feels very gameified.

    Compare to Galactic Civilizations 3, where the equivalent Victory requires you to make an alliance with every other faction. I know it wouldn't work in Civ VI as it is due to AI befriending to easily and humans being able to block it too easily, but it makes.much more thematic sense - you are forming a galaxy wide Federation, uniting everyone in peace. That is thematically fitting. Winning 20 debates (or less if you build certain Wonders etc) feels meaningless to me.

    Those are my thoughts, anyway.
     
  3. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    I voted Diplomatic Victory because it's in some way both the easiest and the hardest victory in the game, mostly courtesy of the abysmally poor design of the world congress and the complete lack of transparency in the voting. It's quite easy to get fairly fast diplomatic victory by memorizing the AI voting patterns, combined with a bit of luck, plus building the Statue Of Liberty. On the other hand, if you're a new player and/or haven't memorized the AI voting patterns, you're left at completely guessing in the dark at how the AI will throw their votes, and a voting system that makes it all but impossible to dominate the vote once they voting for DV points starts (and what is that anyway? Couldn't they at least have called it something like leader of the congress?), because even if you are massively leading in diplomatic favor generation even a few AI opponents can outvote you with just a moderate favor cost due to scaling vote cost.

    When that's said, I'm increasingly growing tired of the different "victory" conditions you can pursue. It feels artificial, it forces your game into pursuing certain pre-defined strategies, and most importantly it often cuts off the entire last part of the game, which is both a blessing and a curse. A blessing because the last half of the game is a complete bore, but a curse because I feel the last half of the game suffers so much because little attention is being paid to it exactly because most games end before they reach this point - and, I would like to add, many of the issues are not even game design issues as much as poor UI that makes everything take far longer time than they should. As such, I think that if they managed to make late game actually meaningful and fun, it would be more satisfying with the game ending at a certain point and you getting victory based on your combined performance in the different areas - religion, culture, science, economy, diplomacy, military - rather than just reaching the finish line in one of them before someone reaches the finish line in one of the others.
     
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  4. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    I never understood why they took out the old Domination (x% of the land and y% of the population) and Conquest (eliminate/vassalize all other Civs) and had this weird conquer the capitals thing they now call Domination.

    Religion is ok, better than Civ IV to be fair (you could win there with a tiny religion by gaming the system).

    Culture is a bit weird as it's really a Tourism victory.

    Space is fine (although weird they call it Science!) as is Diplo.
     
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  5. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon Emperor

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    I think Victory conditions in Civ VI should be redesigned in general. But it will not happen in Civ VI. Fingers crossed for some more flexible and less repetitive designs in Civ VII. Some ideas I posted here on forums (Long story short it should rather focus on a set of various miniquests, than a simple path to fulfilling a certain condition). As for fixing current Victory types. Diplomatic is the worst one alongside with World Congress and it is number one on my list. It is dull, focused on a flat grinding of resource (DP), struggling with RNG AI, and meaningless Resolutions. The second one is Scientific Victory. From a certain point, it is all about clicking the next turn. The main Civ Franchise slogan "One more turn" in both situations from excitement changes to mechanical clicking. This is the warning signal that something went wrong. Adding Exoplanet Expedition twists didn't help to resolve this problem, only made this process longer. One more space project, based on the same resources - science and production.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021 at 8:20 AM
  6. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    Domination
    I completely agree with @Noble Zarkon that Domination Victory should go back to requiring a certain percentage threshold of the controlled land and population to be reached, because that is when you truly dominate the planet. This requirement of capturing all capitals just is not very much sensible. If I so wish, I stay peaceful and turtle beelining the nukes, build 7 of them, nuke all the capitals at once, paradrop or move in some units to take them unopposed and bam, I've won domination. What a load of sloblock.
    And, yes, the Conquest Victory should come back for total elimination of other major civs.

    Religious
    Before Diplomatic Victory came around, this was the worst one, it feels completely disjointed from everything else. You can go tunnelvision on faith generation with no real harm to other aspects of your civilization, even with big benefits, if you care to bother, and if not, win this kind of victory in record time. Besides, RV should require conversion of more than half of the population units, not cities, first of all. And second, I am not sure if there should be a Religious Victory at all. It kinda comes under the umbrella of Cultural Victory, as religion is indeed part of civilization's culture. It becomes too gamey if taken apart, and with the unit spam like in VI implementation, it is rather tiresome and not entirely satisfying. Not one of the "real" victories for sure.

    Diplomatic
    This one historically was the most problematic for the franchise and VI implementation is not shining neither. I see it as the worst, least satisfying and the most gamey condition that I would be happy to see gone entirely rather than implemented like now. 100% not a "real" victory. DV points for wonders? Come on. Points for going with the flow in the World Congress? Goodness me, what about showing real leadership and setting the example for the world? Guaranteed DV points for a certain tech or civic? Not convincing, maybe if, if only for the single civ that reaches them first.

    I would take away awarding DV points from wonders and techs/civics and certainly for voting in the Congress, that makes no sense at all. I'd half the DV points for winning aid emergencies. I'd give DV points for liberating City states, but only those, that were conquered after a direct aggression by a major civ. And for returning cities, lost to conquest, to their former countries, but also only if lost after direct aggression, and returned within some turn limit after the conquest in both cases. After such a limit its a fait accompli and a new status quo.

    Maybe there could be something to factor in being the greatest source of "soft power", like to create a ticking score for the strength of economy, maintaining military power and, most of all, ensuring that your citizens are the happiest and most loyal in the world.

    Edit: And yeah, I forgot, take away DV points or give negative ticking score when you're in aggressive war, annex cities or eliminate civs without a valid CB. Because now you can warmonger to your satisfaction and then notice at some point that the world awarded you the Diplomatic Victory somehow.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021 at 9:05 AM
  7. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

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    What he said.

    Also not very satisfied with score victory. You can pretty much only win that if you disable all the others and then it just becomes old school domination because lots of lands = score.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021 at 9:11 AM
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  8. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    Domination -

    Happy to see that a lot of others had the same thought that I did... I like the population and land percentage requirements more than I like the "conquer every other civilization's capital" approach.

    Culture and Science -

    The main problem I have with both of these is that they are just way to passive in terms of finishing them. They both boil down to a bunch of clicking "end turn" until you finally cross the finish line and that makes them boring IMO. In the case of science, you wait for the proper techs to finish researching so you can wait for the proper projects to be finished so that you can wait for your ship to reach it's destination. In cultural victories you get your tourism set up and then you wait for the bucket to fill. In both cases it's almost always obvious that victory is certain WAY before you actually achieve it, so it's just sitting around and waiting with basically nothing of any real interest going on. The end of a game and the race to the finish line should be the most exciting part of the game - it's definitely not here.

    I'd like to see something a lot more active with new goals to work towards constantly coming up that I have to work towards. Maybe a more quest based approach towards getting to the finish line ("secure a source of 6 uranium per turn in order to provide enough materials for our interstellar spaceship" or "build a wonder or national park within 3 tiles of your border with Neighbor X to get a large influx of tourists from them").

    If we can't do something more active, maybe considering implementing some type of "mercy rule"? At some point it becomes pretty obvious that nobody is going to catch you before you win, so come up with a way that the game can just go ahead and reward you the victory - if it's impossible for anyone's spaceship to launch and catch up with my own, just give me the win!

    Religious -

    I don't think it's too bad, just a little dull. I'd like to see some more units added to give some variety outside of just swarming your enemies with apostles. Quests similar to those I proposed above would be fun too.

    Diplomatic -

    I know a lot of people don't like it but it's still probably my favorite victory condition in the game - you have a lot of options as far as how you get there, there are often "quests" (emergencies and competitions) you can choose to do to help you on your way, and it doesn't drag on for ever. It's not perfect but I personally would take it over any other condition as they currently stand.

    Score -

    Shave off about 200 turns from the game length and maybe I'll actually get one. You'd have to make your score much less domination-focused though, because as it stands it's more about how large your empire is than anything else you actually do.
     
  9. Vizurok

    Vizurok Magyar Soldier

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    Yeah, it's actually quite hard to achieve a score victory with the others turned on, but on the other hand, would it be a better game experience if the AI would not even achieve a SV before getting to the turn limit? (At least on higher difficulties, I have no idea if the AI manages to launch on Chieftain or Settler).
     
  10. Futumch

    Futumch Calm as a Coma

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    I think the Science victory ought to be called "Space Race" because that's what it is. I think that it should be reduced by getting rid of the Mars and Lunar steps by merging them. A Science victory ought to have some sort of civ-wide bonus to demonstrate to the other civs that, yes, you are signifigantly ahead of them in technology. Something like territory wide shields or weather control or SDI lasers or the like. Obtaining those parts of a Science victory could take the steps that getting to the Moon and Mars used to. It would allow you to focus on those elements once your ship is launched (if you chose to - you could launch your ship last). Something to do rather than playing leapfrog with giant death robots.

    That's actually a really good idea.

    --
    I think Diplomatic victory is a very drawn-out affair and not very engaging.
    --
    No matter what changes or ideas are presented, I would love to see a return of the old Civ display where a pictograph representation of all your citizens and your top 5 cities were available to peruse once the game is over.
     
  11. Amrunril

    Amrunril Emperor

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    Science- I think this victory condition was a lot more dynamic in vanilla. The GS changes removed a lot of the dynamism of racing for multiple parts at once since, in most games it's trivially easy to have all the original parts complete before you unlock the exoplanet expedition. This results in a much more one dimensional competition , which takes a lot longer without adding very much interesting content. There's also the thematic issue with the booster projects accelerating a faster than light rocket (which is itself a huge departure from the plausible near future atmosphere of most of the late game techs) by shooting lasers at it.

    Culture- I think the victory condition is fine in its own right, though I think the numbers need to be tweaked for it to be competitive with science against similarly skilled opponents. I do think tourism should do something before the moment you win, though.

    Religion- This one needs to either go back to the drawing board or be removed completely. It's tedious against the AI and basically impossible against human opponents.

    Diplomatic- Guessing how other civs will vote on resolutions just doesn't strike me as an interesting basis for a victory condition. I think Civ V had this right in principle, with the focus on allying city states and passing supporting resolutions like chairmanship, world religion and world ideology. Obviously, that didn't work well in practice, since Civ V's city states were easy to monopolize with gold. Something along those lines might work better with Civ VI's city states, though, especially if supported by a world congress built around resolution selection rather than A/B options.

    Domination- This would be a de-facto victory condition even if it wasn't officially listed. I basically never play a domination victory to completion, but I don't have a particular problem like this, since it's easy to pivot into another victory (or just to stop once you've obviously won, if you're not invested in seeing the victory screen or collecting achievements).

    Score "Victory"- In a game where a casual player can win in 300-400 turns (and hardcore single player optimizers apparently manage closer to 100), it's hard to see hitting a 500 turn cutoff as anything but a collective defeat. I actually think a score system incorporating elements of all the existing victory conditions could be an interesting alternate method of determining a winner, or a way to set up a "mercy rule", but those are sufficiently different conceptually that I'd se them as new victory mechanisms rather than reworks of the existing one.
     
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  12. Oberinspektor Derrick

    Oberinspektor Derrick Warlord

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    In order of importance, I voted:

    1. Diplomatic victory.
    I really loved the diplomacy in civ 5, and I think it was by far the superior system.
    Being the leader of each session of the WC/UN really mattered, as you got to control the voting options - and doing so was very worth it.
    In civ 6, we get random (and often very boring) options to vote for (double luxury amenities being a usual culprit).
    International competitions nearly never happen, and the rewards are either way very dull.
    In civ 5, you could vote for a world ideology (this could really wreak havoc on others), world religions, increased GPP generations towards your favoured victory while hampering others, and a lot more of absurdly powerful policies when used right.
    And in between sessions, it was a frantic effort to actively engage with the environment for votes to secure the next session.
    You needed to reach out to other AIs to secure votes, or you had to be really aggressive about maintaining a majority of CS suzerainties (and these were huge gold sinks).
    All in all, it took a lot of interaction with the game, and the rewards could be huge.
    In civ 6, you don't care about what you vote for (not that it matters anyway), just winning the vote and otherwise building a few select wonders.
    Terrible system, I have no idea why they scrapped a far superior system over this pile of crap.

    2. Religious victory.
    This system is both fine, while also not being fine.
    It requires you to interact with the game and carefully spread that religion through different religious units, which is a plus.
    However, its extremely easy to do so, and basically just requires you to have good faith, a basic tactical combat sense and a few modifiers.
    One of the easiest victories to pull off, and can be pulled off very early.
    Feels cheesy and unrewarding to play, and therefore I haven't played for a RV in over a year.

    3. Cultural victory.
    All in all a good system, which requires a lot of interaction with the game, on different levels.
    You have to organize great works, plan for certain wonders, have enough faith generation, plan improvements, watch your appeal and the list goes on.
    Where it falls flat is when you realize how the recent GS expansion messed a bit too hard with the system.
    Great works don't matter that much anymore, especially great works of music.
    By the time I pull off a CV, I have usually gotten about 2 great works of music, and stopped caring about my great works alltogether.
    The reason for that is how insanely strong natural parks and rock bands become in the late game, and for that you need faith - lots and lots of faith.
    Basically, if I ignore most great work mechanics and wonders and instead play for science and feel like switching from SV to CV, I can 9/10 times just ramp up faith generation in the late game, dump down a ton of natural parks, spam some rock bands, and win a CV about 15-20 turns later than I would have normally won a CV if I focused on culture right from the start.
    I dislike it when new mechanics (natural parks and rock bands through faith) powercreep the old mechanics, thereby invalidating what was normally an interesting aspect of the game and overall making the game poorer instead of richer.
     
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  13. Kmart_Elvis

    Kmart_Elvis King

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    Score: I have yet to complete a Score victory in Civ VI despite the hundreds of hours I've played. Nothing inherently wrong with it, it's just 500 turns at Standard speed is ridiculous. I can complete most other victories <300 turns, so why do I just want to play for an extra 200? All it really needs is to be shortened.

    Cultural: I love all the different avenues to achieve a CV. Whether it's going all-in on GWAMS, or using terrain to your advantage with national parks and seaside resorts, or bonus tourism from late-game cards, even the monopolies+corporation mode adds some depth. My biggest gripe is how opaque it is in where you are. Every other victory type has a good way to measure where you stand and you know what you have to do. Domination? You have six capitals? You just need to get two more and you win. Religious? Very similar, I have 7 civs converted, I just need to convert this last one. Science? OK, I need to research Smart Materials. Diplomatic? Literal points. But with Cultural, it's just too hard to see where you're at. Yeah, maybe I am dominant over 5 of 8 civs... But... Am I going to win in 10 turns or 50? The "turns to win" display that sometimes comes up is always grossly inaccurate. So CV is just throwing everything I can at anything to create tourism and then suddenly it's all, "Oh, I guess I will finally win really shortly."

    Domination: Would love to see it split into Domination and Conquest like the older civ games. But, it's a pretty simple victory, and you know where you stand and what you need to do, so I guess this works OK.

    Religion: I love having RV, but I don't like how it's the most narrow of all the victories. It's really a game within a game. Science doesn't really matter. Culture is important early game but only until a certain point. Once you have Theocracy unlocked and the cards that come around that time...there's nowhere to go. At that point, you just ignore science and culture and just do a slog of sending missionaries and apostles around the world. I wish passive religious spread was much, much stronger too, so you don't have to rely so strongly on religious units. I definitely want a religious victory in the game, but it could use a total rework.

    Diplomatic: Yeah, this is the most problematic. I'm not sure how to fix it, but for starters, there absolutely needs to be a way for you to submit your own resolutions to the world congress. Having everything random takes all the fun out of the game. I like the idea of having strong diplomatic power make up for being weak in other areas. So maybe you're not the best scientifically or culturally, but you get an iron hold over the world congress and can really set-back other civs or boost yourself where you need it. Civ V's implementation was far from perfect for Diplo Victory, but I consider it hugely superior to the current iteration. I also don't like how gamey it is, and when you start getting closer, your longtime allies start taking away points from you. You should be rewarded for playing peacefully, building up alliances, helping allies, suzeraining city-states, etc. Why should your longtime ally vote against you when you've been peaceful with them for thousands of years and even came to their aid numerous times?

    Instead of a point system, maybe make it so you have to achieve numerous goals, like you would with space race: Maybe ally most civs, suzerain the majority of city-states, gain votes in the world congress for Secretary-General, etc.
     
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  14. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Unless you set disasters high or kill off everyone else, Diplomatic Victory is heavily gated by turns. You have to wait 30 turns to have a vote and 30 turns is a lot in this game. That makes a lot of it really boring and any mishap sets you back that much
     
  15. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Yeah, that, plus the fact that for so many of the votes, you are truly just guessing at the AI, means that it makes it really hard to secure. I think I've won by it once, and while it was fun overall once I started going down that path, a few wrong guesses, or even world congress votes before you have even met all the civs in the game so you really can't even try to guess how people are voting, make it very hard to get going on. I don't know how to change it to make it more active, other than potentially expanding a little on the "carbon recapture" mechanism. Perhaps it could use a better tie in to climate change, so that you could maybe gain DV points in some late environmental competitions, or add in a few more late wonders revolving around renewable energy, and help that way. Other than obviously some better way to trade diplo favor - ie. perhaps if instead of being able to offer it in deals, simply when the vote comes up, you can only sell diplo favor then to explicitly broker deals. So maybe I sell you 30 favor and tell you to vote for A.

    As for the other VCs, I think they're mostly fine. They each can use some rebalancing here or there, especially religious victory which is probably the biggest slog of them all marching an army of apostles around the world. Perhaps that one could use some sort of trigger like converting 50% of the world to your religion, then you can build an "ascend to transcendence" wonder and projects, although that one would be potentially a tough one for another civ to stop somehow.
     
  16. Linklite

    Linklite King

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    I've found another gripe with DipVic. You get two categories to vote in, but eventually get the third option which adds or removes 2 DVPs. Because I'm close to a DioVic, they're all uniting against me, voting to remove 2 points from me. Despite having 40x the diplo that the second highest has, I'm being out voted. I can easily win the other two categories, so it cancels each other out, leaving me going fast nowhere. It sucks - I've lost 60 turns of my life so far this game because the only way to progress is to win the competitions. I'm on 17 so far, I'm hoping the fact that I conceded the last round and saved my diplo might give me enough cumulative diplo to force it through. Plus if there's competition that I can win or if I win one of the other two categories, I might win it. A little frustrating though
     
  17. Vargas1

    Vargas1 Warlord

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    Cultural
    Definitely my favorite victory type, because by far it allows for the most variety in how to get there. My last three cultural victories were a relic-heavy religious tourism-based victory with Ethiopia, an old-school pure GWAM & wonder victory with a DOA/Work Ethic Russia, and a limited district (other than preserve) victory with Bull Moose Teddy where I built like 15 national parks. I love that variety.

    The one main issue I have is what @bengalryan9 said - it gets too passive at the end and you just keep clicking through until you're done (other than rock bands, which are fun but overpowered). I would like to see there be later-game 'events' that go into a cultural victory - once you fill up an art museum, you can run a project to put on an art exhibition to increase tourism, which would get a bonus if the museum is themed (I also would like to see more theming options). Or run a library exhibition with great works of writing, which scales if you have a bunch in one city (so an incentive to put Apadana, Great Library, Oxford, etc. in the same city). And/or have bonuses for concentrations of things in one city - so tourism from art gets a bonus when the Hermitage is in the city, etc. It could also work to have concentrations of other things in a given city - bonuses for seaside reports if you have a bunch next to one another, or multiple ski mountains in the same range, etc.

    Domination
    I haven't played any other Civ games, but the idea of control over land/population is intriguing. I'm generally ok with this condition but it is kind of strange that there is an incentive (particularly towards the end) to rush full-speed toward the capital cities and not bother with the rest of the empire.

    Religious
    My biggest issue with Religion is how useless passive spread is - I would like to see that ramped up significantly and have less of a focus on the pure micromanagement of missionaries/apostles. Otherwise I'm generally ok with the win condition itself, though would like to see more depth in religious gameplay.


    Science
    As others have said, the problem with science is how linear it is, particularly late-game. The Laser Station projects I actually like because it encourages you to build additional spaceports and supply resources (power and aluminum). I think there should be more items like that that encourage folks to keep exploring, expanding, building, etc.


    Diplomatic
    Just a total mess in my view - I think there's a lot of promise in the idea of diplomacy, but it needs a full rework.
     
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  18. ShakaKhan

    ShakaKhan King

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2015
    Messages:
    896
    All I ask is that they fix the current monopoly game mode with culture (tourism) victories. ICM is a great game mode, the best of the packs, lots of fun trying to get full monopolies and stuff, but dong so should get you an extra 5% tourism per resource monopoly or so, not 2000%. I see that they made an update patch to address it, and now the 4000% bonus is reduced to 2000%. What? Obviously not enough, FIX THIS!!! This is the best game mode they gave us with NFP, but it's 95% broken with one of the victory conditions, and the "fix" brought it down 50% - we need the rest of the fix!!!

    As for the other victory conditions, if they want to have a score victory, it should end the game when you reach the point where victory is inevitable, and at that moment. Not click next-turn for 350 of the 500 turns to activate it.
     
  19. Abaxial

    Abaxial King

    Joined:
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    I voted for all of them!

    CV - the best expression of this was the way in Civ V, towards the end, the leaders would come to you moaning that "Our young people are buying your blue jeans and listening to your rock music". That need to be developed, and CV needs to be better integrated with economics.

    DomV - capturing every capital is excessive, and there are still too many warmongering penalties to make this fun. Something involving blocs and vassalage would be better.

    SciV - this is just way too boring. SV in Civ V was much better. Or it could stop with moon landing or mars landing. Having to go all the way to exoplanets takes far too long.

    RV - it's not so much the victory conditions that are a problem as the under-developed approach to religion in the game.

    DipV - I actually prefer the Civ VI WC to the one in Civ V, but it shouldn't be a matter of learning the AI voting pattern each time.

    ScoV - what's the point of waiting to turn 500? It would be better to have a moving target, like having a score more than twice (or 3x) the score of your next rival.
     
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  20. Shibooyeah

    Shibooyeah Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Messages:
    61
    Culture is the most fun but at the same time the culture victory progress screen is absolutely unintelligible. This turn you’re 10 turns from winning. Next turn you’re 85 turns from winning. The next turn there’s no countdown at all - and you’re none the wiser about what has actually changed in those three turns. Also, airports should have a tourism aspect. They’re useless otherwise. When o play for dom or science, I win before I actually need to get airplanes anyway.

    I want diplomatic to be fun but it’s not. To be able to be allies or friends with every other CIV and still have them all vote for you to lose points is just stupid.
     
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  21. Vargas1

    Vargas1 Warlord

    Joined:
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    This would make a ton of sense and could be really straightforward - airports make it easier for foreign visitors to arrive, so cities with airports get a +15% modifier to tourism (and cities within 6 tiles get a non-stackable 5% boost).
     
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