RFC: BtS Bug Reports

[deanej]

3) How can I hire Knights, Maceman and Pikeman if I don't even know what iron and horse are?

Well, you're only hiring them, not building them, right? I don't think your military leaders would disqualify a unit because they look funny.

 

[blizzrd]

1) How can Maya research Horseback riding if they have no clue what kind of animal is horse?

The Maya may have had no idea what a horse was historically, but I fail to see why that should prevent them from researching it in the game. The native American civs didn't historically know what Gunpowder was either, but they can and regularly do research this in the game.

The Maya didn't conquer/vassalize the Aztecs either, but when I play them that is something that I can routinely achieve. In other words, don't get too caught up on history having to be exactly replicated in RFC. It's close in many ways, but is always an alternate version of history with certain differences.

 

[Tigranes]

The Maya may have had no idea what a horse was historically, but I fail to see why that should prevent them from researching it in the game. The native American civs didn't historically know what Gunpowder was either, but they can and regularly do research this in the game.

Well, it's not the same. Game must be self consistent, after choosing the level of approximation to historical reality. See, Rhye made it so that horse will not appear in Americas until Europeans. Now one needs to be consistent with this choice. You can't research HR because you never seen horse. Now Gunpowder is a different story.The mining of Chile saltpeter was such a profitable business that three nations, Chile, Peru, and Bolivia fought over the richest deposits in the War of the Pacific. The world's largest natural deposits of caliche ore were in the Atacama desert of Chile. Inca COULD have been researched the gunpowder and Mayans COULD have been strong established nation by the time Aztecs spawn. But there were no Kangaroos in Britain and no horses in Americas. So if Rhye specifically banned horse from the New World American civs should not research it, IMHO.

 

[Tigranes]

Well, you're only hiring them, not building them, right? I don't think your military leaders would disqualify a unit because they look funny.

Why don't my generals hire modern armor than? It's certainly more effective than Knights

I think in game terms you should not be able to hire any unit unless you have the required tech. So hiring Keshiks is ok if you start with Camels, but not Cavalery.

 

[Tigranes]

Forts on resources that are linked to your trade network give you that resource just like you had built the appropriate improvement on top of it.

I know that. All I am saying is how logical is that. If you have no tech to mine silver in jungles why the fort should provide your entire Empire with a silver?

 

[blizzrd]

Why don't my generals hire modern armor than? It's certainly more effective than Knights

Units are available for hire as mercenaries because another civ can produce them, prior to the researching of Nationalism at least. At the point that another civ can produce Modern Armor, Nationalism would prevent the hiring of mercenaries.

I think in game terms you should not be able to hire any unit unless you have the required tech. So hiring Keshiks is ok if you start with Camels, but not Cavalery.

This argument is just wrong in its premise. Mercenaries that you can hire are only raised by foreign civs and the resource your civ controls shouldn't (and doesn't) have anything to do with the availability of types of foreign mercenaries.

 

[blizzrd]

I know that. All I am saying is how logical is that. If you have no tech to mine silver in jungles why the fort should provide your entire Empire with a silver?

You gain control the territory when you have built a fort, so you control the resources of the territory also. Makes sense to me.

Just consider that the "natives" in the area already identified and gathered the resource for you before you built the fort. Don't lose too much sleep over it.

Forts require Mathematics, which allows Catapults. If your civ can lob boulders hundreds of metres, by rights it can probably also extract precious metals from them.

 

[blizzrd]

Well, it's not the same. Game must be self consistent, after choosing the level of approximation to historical reality. See, Rhye made it so that horse will not appear in Americas until Europeans. Now one needs to be consistent with this choice. You can't research HR because you never seen horse. Now Gunpowder is a different story.The mining of Chile saltpeter was such a profitable business that three nations, Chile, Peru, and Bolivia fought over the richest deposits in the War of the Pacific. The world's largest natural deposits of caliche ore were in the Atacama desert of Chile. Inca COULD have been researched the gunpowder and Mayans COULD have been strong established nation by the time Aztecs spawn. But there were no Kangaroos in Britain and no horses in Americas. So if Rhye specifically banned horse from the New World American civs should not research it, IMHO.

What if the tech Horseback Riding was simply called Stirrups instead? To me, this is what is implied with that part of the tech tree anyway, not proof that your civ discovered a particular four-legged animal running about in the open.

Any anyway, why shouldn't the Mayans be able to invent Stirrups? It won't do much for them and doesn't lead to anything else in the tech tree, so what is your problem?

 

[Opferlamm]

What if the tech Horseback Riding was simply called Stirrups instead? To me, this is what is implied with that part of the tech tree anyway, not proof that your civ discovered a particular four-legged animal running about in the open.

Any anyway, why shouldn't the Mayans be able to invent Stirrups? It won't do much for them and doesn't lead to anything else in the tech tree, so what is your problem?

they are riding on Lamas instead....

 

[Tigranes]

Units are available for hire as mercenaries because another civ can produce them, prior to the researching of Nationalism at least. At the point that another civ can produce Modern Armor, Nationalism would prevent the hiring of mercenaries.


This argument is just wrong in its premise. Mercenaries that you can hire are only raised by foreign civs and the resource your civ controls shouldn't (and doesn't) have anything to do with the availability of types of foreign mercenaries.

The argument is not wrong, you just failed to understand it. Did I say resource? I said tech. You don't need horses for Camel Archers, but you need Guilds. Keshiks need horse, but it is still logical to hire them becouse they too come with Guilds. It's logical in terms of the balance between the gameplay and the reality. But if you don't have the tech for Cavalery you should not be able to hire them. Simple as that. Merc. mod does it (kinda) but not all the way. This is what I am talking about.

Same happened in my Inca game. Why bother to research to defend when you can just hire Carib Knights without even knowing Iron working? Makes situation completely unrealistic. And breaks the balance in the game too. Goes against entire RFC philosophy.

The argument about Lamas is a nice one Incas could of think, hey why don't we ride them, or they could met Mayans one day and tell them about the existance of lamas. Fort can be thought as access to silver without industrial minig. You know, limited deposits, just enough to make wives of Inca nobility happy

 

[dragodon64]

Well, many generals throughout history have hired mercenaries who have weaponry they don't completely understand. Leaders don't have to worry about them dying, so as long as they work, who cares how they get it done. And I know it's not the same thing, but countries that couldn't/can't produce a certain weapon often give an arm and a leg to get them.

 

[Tigranes]

Ok, I think this one is a real bug. Playing as India (Emperor), got SH, running Emancipation to slow every Civ (+1 ) with "we demand emancipation!" I do get this effect myself when somebody else have built the SH. Egypt beat me on Oracle so I went to Worldbuilder, infiltrated Great Spies and checked all the civs. No one was experiencing any problems. None! Even those I had open borders with, a contact and a trade. No one around is jealous about Emancipation in India. Unless its a special bonus Emperor AI gets in RFC, something wrong is going on with this civic.

 

[ZachScape]

One of the tips when you load the game says: "Press [/] to scroll though active workers."
Just a one letter edit.

 

[ThurinEthir]

It's not a BTS bug (rather, it's in Warlords), but I don't feel like making a new thread for it.
Japan's UHV is not working correctly. I don't remember exactly what the victory advisor says the requirements are, but I believe they are "no foreign culture on Honshu", "be first in score", and "be first to finish the tech three." However, as soon as Japan loses a city, the UHV counter goes gray. When I played as them once, I decided to invade China, and lost a city in a counter-attack. I checked the victory advisor, it appears I failed the last one, "be first to finish the tech tree." However, this was in the 1400s, so unless someone somehow managed to research all those techs that quickly, I doubt that was it.
So I'm pretty sure the game still thinks that the last condition is that you can't lose a city, which isn't what I'm told by the Civilopedia or the victory advisor. I hear it's working fine in BTS though.

 

[civhelp121]

I recently had a problem with my computer. It had a virus that I couldn't get off. So I brought it to bestbuy and they ran a scan and the corrupted file was in Civilization IV. Now the game obviously doesn't come with a virus so the only way it could have gotten in was though downloading a mod. I'm curious whether any of you have had a problem and I think it would be helpful if anyone here could explore whether your mod has a virus in it or whether one of the downloading sites have a virus in them that caused it to be transferred to my computer.

 

[Panopticon]

Nobody else has reported that problem with RFC, so I don't think that is the source.

 

[Lone Wolf]

VIPRE, AviraAntiVir and MalwareBytes report no suspicious stuff.

 

[deanej]

Also keep in mind that viruses do infect other files once they get on your system (as well as sabotage your security programs and invite other viruses to come in), so the problem may not be related to civ at all.

 

[civ_king]

Playing Emperor, Europe almost completely turns Muslim, Rome and China depend to heavily on the great wall, in other words if they don't get it--they die

I saw immortal independents and barbs running around before Persia spawns,
getting 50 War chariots from Barbs/independants when spawning as Persia is just wrong

 

[sedna17]

There is a bug in RiseAndFall.py in hitNeighboursStability. On a civ spawn, instead of looping through the pre-defined list for which existing civs should take a stability hit (this list is n elements long), the stability hit is applied to first n civs as ranked by ID. This hit is applied to "Foreign" stability. This explains why Egypt (ID = 0) has such bad foreign stability, as most civs have at least one neighbor defined in lOlderNeighbors and thus actually hit Egypt upon birth. See my suggested fixed line (in red):

def hitNeighboursStability( self, iCiv ):
                if (len(con.lOlderNeighbours[iCiv])):
                        bHuman = False
                        for iLoop in range(len(con.lOlderNeighbours[iCiv])):[COLOR="Red"]
                        for iLoop in con.lOlderNeighbours[iCiv]:[/COLOR]
                                if (gc.getPlayer(iLoop).isAlive()):
                                        if (iLoop == utils.getHumanID()):
                                                bHuman = True                                        
                                        utils.setStability(iLoop, utils.getStability(iLoop)-2)