RFC Civilizations in Abundance

[Jarkov]

These are some very good ideas; I'll think about it, but I'm pretty sure I'll use most of them.

 

[great.taurus]

Just happy to help.

Now that I think about it, there was one more change I made. I edited the starting city population to 3, rather than the normal 2. For what essentially boils down to a one time bonus, I felt the UP should have been stronger. Its a superfluous change, and there's no reason you should keep it if you felt it was balanced previously.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I like it very much!
The Native Americans are a little overpowered--all their melee get 2 promotions, and dog soldiers are no longer a threat (since you can build them yourselves). This basically means that you can build a super army to wipe out the Aztecs pretty early.
The only tricky part was to realize that 1100 AD is not that far off, so that Chicago and Denver have to be founded quickly, in that order. (New Orleans is not suitable because the corn is not in the initial 3x3 square, and to wait for the totem pole to expand culture it's too late).
I would suggest decreasing the initial city size to 2, and/or make city unhappiness grow a little quicker (since when were the native Americans known for large cities, except for 1?).
Also, the Native Americans seem to be counted as an "Old World" civ, at least by the plague.

It was touch and go, since France loves to get those Canadian cities, England loves Vancouver, and Spain loves the islands. I got Aztecs as a voluntary vassal (simply by building lots of cities initially). By the end I was at war with all the Euros except for Russia. The 3rd UHV is definitely harder than Aztecs, but I got it.

 

[Jarkov]

Well, that's pretty much what it should be like. You have an advantage against the natives' dog soldiers, you have to be fast to get all the corn in the right time, and the 3rd UHV should be the toughest, although it varies very much from game to game.

The Native Americans are hit by the plague a bit harder than the other New World Civs, and though their dog soldiers aren't bad, they usually are no match for the European defense units.

I've played them a number of times, and in about 2/3rd of the games I've won by historical victory, so I wouldn't say they're too overpowered.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

On the other hand, you made the Holy Roman Empire, the Germans, the Byzantines almost impossible to play. Especially the Germans when you don't give them Frankfurt or Kiev, and without iron it's impossible to build cannon. France had a super stack of 30 units (all kinds of promoted cannon and riflemen) in Geneva. (I don't think I can get to Rocketry and Fission by 1850)

How is HRE not to lose any cities to Germany when they are supposed to flip to Prussia?

And the Byzantines just can't get enough tech to battle the Turks and Arabia if they were to save all that gold.

Is it possible to provide a map of the spawns and which areas to control?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Prussia's heyday was 1871. The Austro-Prussian War (1866) and Franco-Prussian War (1871) all post-date the 1850 deadline. I would delay the 1850 deadline at least until 1870, or even later. In fact, I would change the 1st goal to something less drastic, in terms of land, but add all the land requirements to the 1940 goal.

 

[Jarkov]

The Byzantines and the Germans are pretty hard, but not impossible. The HRE is supposed to deny any of the cities that would like to flip to the Prussians, and would have to fight for it. It's true that the Austro-Prussian war happened after 1850, but the War of Austrian Succession, e.g., happened earlier. I have found playing the HRE one of the easiest of the additions, as it usually becomes a powerhouse of production pretty early on.

I will probably change the German goals though, and let them have to acquire colonies for example.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

France is a piece of cake nowadays since you get iron, you can found Frankfurt after turn 22 (when the city wants to flip to HRE), and you can pretty much colonize all of Germany before Prussia shows up. (And yes, killing Spain is as easy as usual)

Never mind, Frankfurt doesn't always get razed.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

The War of the Austrian Succession is a non-event--basically the flip is equal to the outcome of that war. (I'm saying that if you want the 1850 land criteria to mean something historically, now that the HRE/Austria is present, controlling Greece/Italy should not be it)

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Just finished France on Monarch (killed Aztecs and Native Americans--with 2 different sets of conquistadors, although they didn't appear when I played the native Americans. Also vassalized Portugal, Netherlands, Mali, England and Vikings (all voluntarily) Built every wonder possible (including the AP and Hagia Sophia, the DR ones, Wembley and Kremlin, besides the obligatory ones. Dutch beat me to Wat Preah Pisnulok though). Won in 1700 (although kicked in 1703).

There are 2 bugs with the Trading Company--you seem to be able to build any number of them, and it seems to be counted as a world wonder instead of a national wonder.

 

[Jarkov]

You're right, the German UHVs have to be altered, and I'll do so in the next version.

I have always found it easy winning as France, but I don't think that that has changed much with this mod.

The Trading Company is not bugged, that's just a part of the BWS mod of Jedi Clemente that comes with this mod too - you can build two of them, and they are now world wonders (and a lot more powerful).

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Oh, my fault about the Trading Companies.

I think the Byzantines need a triumphal arch. And the 1st goal really needs to be changed. (We're not trying to be another Mali, remember? )
Something like reclaiming Italy by 1000 AD would be reasonable.

I'm going to try the HRE next.

 

[Jarkov]

If the Byzantines were to reclaim Italy, all their conditions would be about land, I wanted to give them some credit for being one of the richest empires at that time. It's probably the easiest of the goals, so I don't really see why it should be changed.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

What I mean is:
1. To save all that gold, the Byzantine Empire can't maximize its potential to prepare for the Turks.
2. 2 out of the 3 criteria being in 1500 deprives them of a Triumphal Arch (if you're playing for UHV). Moving one earlier will help.

If you want to capture the richness of the empire, one of the suggestions in the Byzantine mod discussion was to have a monopoly on certain luxury resources such silk.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

OK, you do realize that the 3rd HRE goal can be easily skirted by giving away cities in the Prussian spawn zone to other civs (e.g. Russia, Turks (wouldn't that be ironic?) or England).

Can you tell me what counts as "Germany" and "Balkans" for the 2nd HRE goal? (i.e. does Wien count for either? Frankfurt presumably counts for a German city)

Specifically,
1. Does Budapest, Riga or Faustindoff count as for German cities?
2. Does Budapest or Constantinople count as Balkan cities?
3. If Riga doesn't count, where is the line east of which it isn't Germany?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Why did you enable "New Random Seed on Reload"??

 

[AnotherPacifist]

OK, so Frankfurt/Danzig and Lemberg don't seem to qualify as Germany.
Or is Venice not an Italian city? But Messina surely counts as one?
It's 1300 and the UHV counter is grayed out.
I can go back but please let me know what I'm not doing right here because I can't play on otherwise.

Is it because selfcheckowned in python means that you have to have exactly the number of cities (and since I have more cities than I need, it fails)? If so, this should be a bug.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

OK, Korea (600AD) is a piece of cake, as long as you realize that Qufu, Hangzhou and Guangzhou need to be captured ASAP (the stupid AI doesn't move troops into it), so that one city has to chop/whip a galley, and make peace with China. There's 2 silks already, the 3rd one is right east of Qufu. When the Mongols show up, I declare war and just let the Chinese take the brunt.
Built the AP with a great engineer (Confucianism), then the Leaning Tower, Univ of Sankore, Forbidden Palace and Sistine Chapel. Almost had the Hagia Sophia.
Both China and Japan became spontaneous vassals. I consider this game won.

 

[Jarkov]

Greece doesn't cound as Balkan, so you've got only one at most there. The precise coordinates for what counts are (62,44) and (67,48) (the rectangle between these two).
Italy is the Roman core area, Germany is the HRE normal area.

The 3rd HRE goal doesn't only count Prussian attacks, but Vikings and French as well.

I know that due to the wealth objective, Byzantium can't build troops or research for a while, but that's intended.
What you're saying about the triumphal arc is true though, I'll think about it.

If random seed is enabled, it's nothing I did. It either is automatically enabled with the original RFC or with RFC Marathon.

The selfcheckowned function only has a minimum, so it will not go False if you have more than the required cities.

To you're Korean experience: I usually play Korea in the 3000 BC scenario, when it is a lot harder to move into china. However, even when I played it in 600 AD, either China or Japan declared war pretty fast - getting the silk is easier though, that's certainly true.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Greece doesn't count as Balkan, so you've got only one at most there. The precise coordinates for what counts are (62,44) and (67,48) (the rectangle between these two).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkans

The Balkan Peninsula may be defined as an area of southeastern Europe surrounded by water on three sides: the Adriatic Sea to the west, the Mediterranean Sea (including the Ionian and Aegean seas) to the south and the Black Sea to the east. Its northern boundary is often given as the Danube, Sava and Kupa/Kolpa rivers.[3]
The term Balkans is generally used to describe areas that remained under Turkish rule after 1699, namely: Bulgaria, Serbia (except for Vojvodina), Macedonia, Thrace, Albania, Valahia, Moldavia, Epirus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro (except for the Boka Bay and Budva), central Greece and the Peloponnese. Vojvodina and Transylvania, it is argued, do not belong to Balkans.

Any way you define it, Greece is included in the Balkans. In fact, your definition might be including Transylvania which shouldn't count.

That's sucks.