RFC Classical World

On my Antigonids game, I discovered Machinery but I can build windmills ...

bug or building windmills is banned ?
 
:Monarch difficulty (go research monarchy directly) (set your tech rate at like 50-60%)
1. first I conquered that (Seleucid city to my right at the start of the turn with my peltest)
2. Meanwhile use your initial army and conquer the island city (where you can get a world wonder colossus)
3. Immediately made peace with the Seleucid as soon as possible
4. After conquering that island city, don't keep any army there (no need of defense anyway) (bring all your army to Tyros) (heal them and ready to march towards Seleucid territory without declaring war)
4. Wait till his initial army (with elephants and stuff) attack Pelosion (egypt)
5. Meanwhile gather army near Seleucid cities..
6. Attack Seleucid cities (keep Babylon, raze everything else)
7. Keep attacking until I conquered Sousa and Seleucid was destroyed (around 268bc)
8. keeping only Babylon, I put one of my heavy spearman there for defense against barbs.. (try to build a spearman there) (when you have your spearman, move your heavy spearman to tyros)
9. wait for a few turns until you finish researching monarchy
10. After that, set tech rate to 0%, hire every single unit from mercenary
11. Gather all your troops and march towards Jerusalem, Pelosion and the rest..
12. I managed to capture all Egyptian territory 1 turn after Roman milltary spawn in the middle east (luckily they didn't attack Jerusalem right away even though I have a spearman there guarding)
 
srpt, I am trying to create a really big empire on my antigonids game!

I manage to stay stable using my great people. I have switched to empire and bureaucracy civics and my empire rating is -1. This is because I own too much foreign core I guess. How can I raise it a bit? or it will continue to decrease as I expand?

Also, my civics rating is -1. I have paired the above civics with sefdom and trade economy. I am still a pagan in religion. Any chance you could give us a guide to which civics work well together? Or even better to use RFCE style, that each civic informs you with which other could be combined.

Oh and how does summer palace works with the new stability system? old summer palace effect was a +5 in stability ..
 
for the empire rating, build courthouses in your non-core cities and try to get your core population as high as possible. core population counts 3x so even settling small cities in non-optimal spots will help.

here is the civics stability code:

Spoiler :
Code: 
		if iCivicGovernment == iMonarchyCivic:
			if iCivicLegal == iBarbarismCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "monarchy", "barbarism")
			if iCivicLegal in [iVassalageCivic, iReligiousLawCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "monarchy", "vassalage, or religious law")
			if iCivicLabor == iSerfdomCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "monarchy", "serfdom")
			if iCivicLabor == iWageLaborCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "monarchy", "wage labor")
			if iCivicEconomy == iPatronageCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "monarchy", "patronage")
			if iCivicReligion in [iDynasticCultCivic, iStateReligionCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "monarchy", "dynastic cult or state religion")
			
		if iCivicGovernment == iOligarchyCivic:
			if iCivicLegal in [iBarbarismCivic, iTyrannyCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "oligrachy", "barbarism or tyranny")
			if iCivicLegal == iBureaucracyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "oligrachy", "bureaucracy")
			if iCivicLabor == iTribalismCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "oligrachy", "tribalism")
			if iCivicReligion in [iDynasticCultCivic, iMilitancyCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "oligrachy", "dynastic cult or militancy")
			if iCivicEconomy in [iAgrarianismCivic, iPatronageCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "oligrachy", "agrarianism or patronage")
			
		if iCivicGovernment == iEmpireCivic:
			if iCivicLegal == iBureaucracyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "empire", "bureaucracy")
			if iCivicLegal in [iBarbarismCivic, iTyrannyCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "empire", "tyranny")
			if iCivicLabor == iTribalismCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "empire", "tribalism")
			if iCivicEconomy == iDecentralizationCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "empire", "decentralization")
			if iCivicEconomy == iAgrarianismCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "empire", "agrarianism")
			
		if iCivicLegal == iBarbarismCivic:
			if iCivicLabor == iWageLaborCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "barbarism", "wage labor")
			if iCivicEconomy == iTradeEconomyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "barbarism", "trade economy")
			
		if iCivicLegal == iTyrannyCivic:
			if iCivicLabor in [iCasteSystemCivic, iWageLaborCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "tyranny", "caste system or wage labor")
			if iCivicEconomy == iTradeEconomyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "tyranny", "trade economy")
			if iCivicReligion == iDynasticCultCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "tyranny", "dynastic cult")
			if iCivicReligion in [iStateReligionCivic, iMilitancyCivic, iSyncretismCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "tyranny", "state religion, militancy or syncretism")
			
		if iCivicLegal == iVassalageCivic:
			if iCivicLabor in [iCasteSystemCivic, iSerfdomCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "vassalge", "caste system or serfdom")
			if iCivicLabor == iWageLaborCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "vassalge", "wage labor")
			if iCivicEconomy == iTradeEconomyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "vassalge", "trade economy")
			if iCivicEconomy == iPatronageCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "vassalge", "patronage")
			
		if iCivicLegal == iReligiousLawCivic:
			if iCivicLabor in [iCasteSystemCivic, iSerfdomCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "religious law", "caste system or serfdom")
			if iCivicLabor == iWageLaborCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "religious law", "wage labor")
			if iCivicEconomy in [iTradeEconomyCivic, iMilitaryEconomyCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "religious law", "trade economy or military economy")
			if iCivicReligion in [iPaganismCivic, iDynasticCultCivic, iSyncretismCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "religious law", "paganism, dynastic cult or syncretism")
			
		if iCivicLegal == iBureaucracyCivic:
			if iCivicLabor in [iTribalismCivic, iCasteSystemCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "bureaucracy", "tribalism or caste system")
			if iCivicLabor == iSlaveryCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "bureaucracy", "slavery")
			if iCivicEconomy == iDecentralizationCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "bureaucracy", "decentralization")
			
		if iCivicLabor == iTribalismCivic:
			if iCivicEconomy == iDecentralizationCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "tribalism", "decentralization")
			if iCivicEconomy in [iTradeEconomyCivic, iMilitaryEconomyCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "tribalism", "trade economy or military economy")
			if iCivicReligion == iDynasticCultCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "tribalism", "dynastic cult")
			
		if iCivicLabor == iSlaveryCivic:
			if iCivicEconomy == iAgrarianismCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "slavery", "agrarianism")
			
		if iCivicLabor == iCasteSystemCivic:
			if iCivicEconomy == iAgrarianismCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "caste system", "agrarianism")
			if iCivicEconomy == iTradeEconomyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "caste system", "trade economy")
			if iCivicReligion in [iDynasticCultCivic, iSyncretismCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "caste system", "dynastic cult or syncretism")
			
		if iCivicLabor == iSerfdomCivic:
			if iCivicEconomy == iAgrarianismCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "serfdom", "agrarianism")
			if iCivicEconomy == iTradeEconomyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "serfdom", "trade economy")
			if iCivicReligion == iStateReligionCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "serfdom", "state religion")
			
		if iCivicLabor == iWageLaborCivic:
			if iCivicEconomy in [iDecentralizationCivic, iAgrarianismCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "wage labor", "decentralization or agrarianism")
			if iCivicEconomy == iTradeEconomyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				print ("good combo", "wage labor", "trade economy")
			if iCivicReligion == iMilitancyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "wage labor", "militancy")
			
		if iCivicEconomy == iTradeEconomyCivic:
			if iCivicReligion in [iDynasticCultCivic, iMilitancyCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				print ("bad combo", "trade economy", "dynastic cult or militancy")
			
		# Civics + State Religion
			
		if iCivicLabor == iCasteSystemCivic and iStateReligion != iHinduism: 
			iCivicsRating -= 1
			print "caste wo hindu"
		
		if iCivicLabor == iSlaveryCivic and iStateReligion == iChristianity: 
			iCivicsRating -= 1
			print "christian slaves"

from that you can figure out what the good combos are
 
Not sure why, But was the Roman Empire, and I completely collapsed and lost as soon as the Vandals/Goths Spawned. They instantly took my territory without a fight (flipped). I had played it for some time so I was looing forward to a fight. Is this by design or some stability problem?
 
srpt said:
for the empire rating, build courthouses in your non-core cities and try to get your core population as high as possible. core population counts 3x so even settling small cities in non-optimal spots will help.
Click to expand...
Yep, I built Abydos and Perge in Asia minor to have some core cities supporting me :D Thanks for the civics code, I will give it a look!

stolenrays said:
Not sure why, But was the Roman Empire, and I completely collapsed and lost as soon as the Vandals/Goths Spawned. They instantly took my territory without a fight (flipped). I had played it for some time so I was looing forward to a fight. Is this by design or some stability problem?
Click to expand...

The Vandals will flip your cities in north western Africa and southern Spain, while the Visigoths will flip your cities in southern France, north Spain and Marseilles. You should keep some units in Milan and when the goths spawn, attack them instantly. For the Vandals, keep some units in Sicily and attack them when they flip your cities
 
@srpt: I was mainly talking about the complexity (npath/cyclomatic, take your pick) of stabilityCheck(...) with hundreds of if statements, which is getting rather out of hand (and where bugs could creep in).

Also, here's a simple example of how I'd simplify some of these long if-chains:

replace
Code: 
if iCorePop > iEmpirePop *2: iEmpireRating += 2
elif iCorePop > iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating += 1
elif iCorePop *5 < iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating -= 5
elif iCorePop *4 < iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating -= 4
elif iCorePop *3 < iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating -= 3
elif iCorePop *2 < iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating -= 2
elif iCorePop < iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating -= 1
	
print ("iEmpireRating=", iEmpireRating)

with this (integer division makes this easy)

Code: 
def EmpireStabilityByPop(iCorePop, iEmpirePop, iEmpireRating):
	maxPosBonus = 2
	maxNegBonus = 5

	if iCorePop > iEmpirePop:
		iEmpireRating += min(iCorePop/iEmpirePop, maxPosBonus)
	elif iCorePop < iEmpirePop:
		iEmpireRating -= min(iEmpirePop/iCorePop, maxNegBonus)

	print ("iEmpireRating=", iEmpireRating)
	return iEmpireRating
 
Sitalkas said:
Yep, I built Abydos and Perge in Asia minor to have some core cities supporting me :D Thanks for the civics code, I will give it a look!



The Vandals will flip your cities in north western Africa and southern Spain, while the Visigoths will flip your cities in southern France, north Spain and Marseilles. You should keep some units in Milan and when the goths spawn, attack them instantly. For the Vandals, keep some units in Sicily and attack them when they flip your cities
Click to expand...

So there's no fighting, just auto flipping? My suggestion would be to switch that to more of a SOI mechanic. In addition, the Germanic tribes should have to fight for their kingdom, isn't that how history occured?
 
stolenrays said:
So there's no fighting, just auto flipping? My suggestion would be to switch that to more of a SOI mechanic. In addition, the Germanic tribes should have to fight for their kingdom, isn't that how history occured?
Click to expand...

There's an expectation that past 220AD the player is probably not playing West Rome, which is why things are the way they are. This may be subject to change later I imagine, but currently the focus is refining (name) maps, balance, any weird bugs, etc.

The later game is the least finished of the game, so if you play any of the 320 BC or 80BC starts you'll be getting a generally better experience (except for an odd Roman stability issue I'm sort of looking into).


Edit & unrelated:

For Carthage, a lack of at least Spanish indy in the interior really slows down progress inland. It's already quite costly to properly colonise North Africa, all the while defeating Rome and properly defending all your cities and growing their economies.

Rome did not collapse when I evicted them from Italy, but that's to be expected since the civ was immune from checks due to having just been born.

---

Also, srpt, do you know where the coordinates of the stability areas are stored?
 
Toletum should be added to the Roman, Celtic, and possibly Carthaginian settler maps, so that the interior of Iberia isn't so empty. Also, I imagine that the Germanic tribes flip their cities with an "invasion" type-flip, where they get armies outside all the cities in their flip zones, but I think the cities flip anyway if they aren't captured, since they are inside their cores.
 
Crossphazer said:
@srpt: I was mainly talking about the complexity (npath/cyclomatic, take your pick) of stabilityCheck(...) with hundreds of if statements, which is getting rather out of hand (and where bugs could creep in).

Also, here's a simple example of how I'd simplify some of these long if-chains:

replace
Code: 
if iCorePop > iEmpirePop *2: iEmpireRating += 2
elif iCorePop > iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating += 1
elif iCorePop *5 < iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating -= 5
elif iCorePop *4 < iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating -= 4
elif iCorePop *3 < iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating -= 3
elif iCorePop *2 < iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating -= 2
elif iCorePop < iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating -= 1
	
print ("iEmpireRating=", iEmpireRating)

with this (integer division makes this easy)

Code: 
def EmpireStabilityByPop(iCorePop, iEmpirePop, iEmpireRating):
	maxPosBonus = 2
	maxNegBonus = 5

	if iCorePop > iEmpirePop:
		iEmpireRating += min(iCorePop/iEmpirePop, maxPosBonus)
	elif iCorePop < iEmpirePop:
		iEmpireRating -= min(iEmpirePop/iCorePop, maxNegBonus)

	print ("iEmpireRating=", iEmpireRating)
	return iEmpireRating
Click to expand...

that looks good, I will add it

stolenrays said:
So there's no fighting, just auto flipping? My suggestion would be to switch that to more of a SOI mechanic. In addition, the Germanic tribes should have to fight for their kingdom, isn't that how history occured?
Click to expand...

not necessarily. the Visigoths were invited and given land, later they rebelled. as was mentioned, at that point the human Roman player's experience can't really be the deciding factor. if you're doing UHVs then you should be finished and if you're doing something else just retreat and reconquer.

Crossphazer said:
For Carthage, a lack of at least Spanish indy in the interior really slows down progress inland. It's already quite costly to properly colonise North Africa, all the while defeating Rome and properly defending all your cities and growing their economies.

Also, srpt, do you know where the coordinates of the stability areas are stored?
Click to expand...

yes there should be an iberian interior city at the start

stability is all provinces. all that matters is core vs non-core provinces

I played the Romans from the 220AD start for a few turns. I am testing removing the Rome vs Sassanids war on spawn. I think the Sassanids are better off going for the Syrian indys and consolidating themselves for a bit.
 
rev 89

fixed some pedia errors
removed war on spawn between Sassanids and Rome
Luoyang and Patna get free improvements if Rome is human and going for Empire UHVs
 
Sassanids need a buff starting from the 320 and 80 BC scenarios. This will also solve the problem of the Kushans being too powerful for too long, as the Sassanids historically broke the supremacy of the Kushan Empire. As a start, I think that the Sassanids should be able to flip their entire core (right now they often miss Persepolis/Parsa). Also, the Han respawn as the Kingdom of Wu should also flip Min Yue, Nan Yue, and Chu in addition to Wu, while the Qin should respawn as the Kingdom of Shu, flipping Shu and Ba.
 
I have never seen the Sassanids not flip Persia but it might be caused by the fact that there is a maximum number of cities that can be flipped.
 
In this case (as will usually happen on 320 BC starts) Arbela and Siraljis were founded, so Persepolis did not flip. My suggestion is to increase their maximum city flipping limit, though I think and overall starting stack buff is needed as well to also indirectly weaken the very OP Kushans.
 
provinces are in CvRhyes.cpp in the DLL source files. there is an spreadsheet version in the maps.ods file.
 
Alright thanks! I had a sneaking suspicion that it was in a cpp file...


for Rome republic UHV3:

Code: 
self.countUniqueGreatPeople((capital.getX(), capital.getY())) >= 5:

5 unique great people? UHV text does not reflect this + this is rather difficult to achieve (if, by luck, you generate one type over the other due to % chance, you fail...)

Personally I'd change the function name and the GP count to

Code: 
iCount += min(3, city.getFreeSpecialistCount(i))

Such that you can't win with entirely the same GP but up to 3 of each. Or just remove the min count altogether.

Also the Empire vs Republic choice text box's UHVs do not reflect the current UHVs, but an older set instead.

It seems to count only one of each. I have the feeling this has been discussed before. Surely the intent can't be five unique great people?

Edit:

Ziz -> Panormus should be in the Latin dictionary for the Carthaginian city of Ziz in Sardinia.

~30AD Christian missionary event does not make a Christian holy city.
 
The Byzantines should not flip Roman Sardinia or Illyricum, as those became part of the Western Roman Empire after its division. Also, they did not flip Roman Sinope or Trapezus; they should flip all Roman cities in the east regardless of whether or not it surpasses their flip threshold. Finally, they spawned at war with Rome, which obviously should not happen.
 
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