I tried a game as the Parthians to get a feel for them. To get the Heroic Epic, you need to discover priesthood, literature and military drill (for the barrack). I managed to get the tech in 73 BC (no bulbing). Thanks to slavery, you can immediately construct the barrack+Heroic Epic (requires a total of 7 slaves). I only had 4.2% of the territory at 73 BC, so I would probably fail the territory goal, but in the next game I will make earlier use of slaves to construct an infrastructure that allows for earlier conquest.
RFC Classical World
- Thread starter srpt
- Start date
ok sorry about the farms not removing forest I didn't mean to do that. lots of funny things have happened since I redid the tech tree. hopefully we're coming to the end of them.
I have had so little time lately... so many little things to fix.
yes captured foreign workers should become slaves, they should require no upkeep and I will up the gold you get for them a bit. I would really like to make them require an escort or they will go barb. I guess I will just have python sweep the map for unattended slaves every few turns. I don't know about settling them in cities. we are already introducing a whole new dynamic: hunting barbs for slaves to rush wonders. they rush only buildings btw and I think it should stay that way.
I really glad the Celts are an interesting play. I think the "Rome will flip these cities unless you take them first" thing adds a nice little race for the Celts and Carthage at the start. as Carthage I was only just able to get Syracuse in time.
I will look into the walls/dun thing.
I might have lower the hurry value of slaves. only 7 of them for a barracks and heroic epic seems low.
I have had so little time lately... so many little things to fix.
yes captured foreign workers should become slaves, they should require no upkeep and I will up the gold you get for them a bit. I would really like to make them require an escort or they will go barb. I guess I will just have python sweep the map for unattended slaves every few turns. I don't know about settling them in cities. we are already introducing a whole new dynamic: hunting barbs for slaves to rush wonders. they rush only buildings btw and I think it should stay that way.
I really glad the Celts are an interesting play. I think the "Rome will flip these cities unless you take them first" thing adds a nice little race for the Celts and Carthage at the start. as Carthage I was only just able to get Syracuse in time.
I will look into the walls/dun thing.
I might have lower the hurry value of slaves. only 7 of them for a barracks and heroic epic seems low.
Tigranes
Armenian
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2008
- Messages
- 9,927
Unescorted Slaves are Fine, IMO. You don't need a military detachment or legion to guard slaves -- the Slave unit includes guards in it. You should even make them 1 MP instead of 2 MP that free Workers enjoy -- to show that transporting Slaves was not as easy as free Workers (and to emphasize the difference between those two). The code will get too slow if you look for unguarded Slaves -- no need to micromanage them to such a degree. Just tie the revolts to stability and Slaves-to-population ratio...
Perhaps when you sell Slaves to the other civ they must get that actual Slave unit. So you need to think twice and also welcome other civ's slaves visiting your cities to be sold there. AI need to learn to benefit from Slavery dynamics...
Slavery civic can allow to "train" slaves -- certainly there were people who were born as slaves. Or perhaps one of the Civ's UP could be the ability to train Slave unit. We also need a nice unit graphics for Slaves to distinguish them from Workers. Perhaps Workers could get clothes and Slaves stay semi-naked, as current Workers are...
Perhaps Whipping can be replaced with Slavery dynamics. One can "whip" a building but not a training of the units. Wonders should require double slaves -- 25 hummers from each Slave. This way rushing buildings can be easier than Wonders.
In addition many UPs can be connected with Slave mechanics. One civ can use Slaves for happiness (gladiators or female slaves
), another civ's UP could be using slaves to rush units (ghulams), the third one (Qin) can get a 50 hummers per Wonders (instead of regular 25 for Wonders and 50 for buildings), etc.
Selling slaves needs to be connected with another civ's available funds, perhaps? (if they are going to take possession of the Slave unit) Otherwise if they act like mini-Great Merchants and Caravans we can think of them being sold to private hands
Perhaps there must be a counter for human player, checking the Slaves to Population ratio. If one gets too high -- instability and unhappiness will ensure.
When properly done, balanced and tested Slavery dynamic will become a landmark feature of this mod -- very fitting for Classical World
!
Perhaps when you sell Slaves to the other civ they must get that actual Slave unit. So you need to think twice and also welcome other civ's slaves visiting your cities to be sold there. AI need to learn to benefit from Slavery dynamics...
Slavery civic can allow to "train" slaves -- certainly there were people who were born as slaves. Or perhaps one of the Civ's UP could be the ability to train Slave unit. We also need a nice unit graphics for Slaves to distinguish them from Workers. Perhaps Workers could get clothes and Slaves stay semi-naked, as current Workers are...
Perhaps Whipping can be replaced with Slavery dynamics. One can "whip" a building but not a training of the units. Wonders should require double slaves -- 25 hummers from each Slave. This way rushing buildings can be easier than Wonders.
In addition many UPs can be connected with Slave mechanics. One civ can use Slaves for happiness (gladiators or female slaves
), another civ's UP could be using slaves to rush units (ghulams), the third one (Qin) can get a 50 hummers per Wonders (instead of regular 25 for Wonders and 50 for buildings), etc. Selling slaves needs to be connected with another civ's available funds, perhaps? (if they are going to take possession of the Slave unit) Otherwise if they act like mini-Great Merchants and Caravans we can think of them being sold to private hands
Perhaps there must be a counter for human player, checking the Slaves to Population ratio. If one gets too high -- instability and unhappiness will ensure.
When properly done, balanced and tested Slavery dynamic will become a landmark feature of this mod -- very fitting for Classical World
!
With all those boosts to slave units (will they be associated with the slavery civic by the way?) you should consider abolishing the traditional "sacrifice population for production" mechanic, which kinda represents the same thing, only more abstract.
Srpt considered the removal of normal whipping earlier, and I agree. Sacrificing your own citizens isn't really an accurate way to portray slavery.
While the mines of Larium were slightly earlier than the period for this mod, I still think mining was closely associated with the use of slave. How about allowing the construction of mines only through the sacrifice of a slave unit? Would it be possible to make the mines a reverse cottage, i.e. take the counting mechanism from cottages, and when it has been worked a certain amount of turns let the mine dissappear?
While the mines of Larium were slightly earlier than the period for this mod, I still think mining was closely associated with the use of slave. How about allowing the construction of mines only through the sacrifice of a slave unit? Would it be possible to make the mines a reverse cottage, i.e. take the counting mechanism from cottages, and when it has been worked a certain amount of turns let the mine dissappear?
merijn_v1
Black Belt
Fixed the improvents not removing forest bug in rev. 341.
According to the code, walls have a 33% chance to be preserved when captured. Same for duns. I think Ephesus had a walls that turned into a Dun upon capturing.
I already made so that slaves, setlers and workers turn into slaves when they are captured.
Maybe you should only be able to sell slaves in a city when it has a slave market in it. I only don't know if the AI build enough slave markets to make this a good feature gameplaywise. (maybe a free merchant to encourage them is needed.)
Thanks to the slavery dynamic, the Parthian game is both very doable and really fun. I didn't take any pictures this time, but it was a tight race all the way down to 50 BC. A great artist from the zoroastrian temple enabled me to get literature in time, but only barely. At the end, I was selling tech desperately to everyone, slaves were being exported en masse and most cities were running wealth/research, and I only managed to get it at around 53 BC.
You have to get the 7% territory goal by 50 BC as well, so you have to keep up the expansion, which cost gold. I took Bactria, Taxila, Pattala, most of Mesopotamia (but left Judea/Tyre and Egypt), Anatolia, Greece and Mediolanum. The goal to kill 20 Roman units happened by itself.
Sadly, there was a bug so I didn't score the UHV for Heroic Epic and Palace in Cteisephon, despite having them there by 51 BC. Even more strange, at 47 BC the territory goal changed from goal accomplished to goal failed, despite having been triggered earlier, giving me the golden age and everything. Savegame is attached.
You have to get the 7% territory goal by 50 BC as well, so you have to keep up the expansion, which cost gold. I took Bactria, Taxila, Pattala, most of Mesopotamia (but left Judea/Tyre and Egypt), Anatolia, Greece and Mediolanum. The goal to kill 20 Roman units happened by itself.
Sadly, there was a bug so I didn't score the UHV for Heroic Epic and Palace in Cteisephon, despite having them there by 51 BC. Even more strange, at 47 BC the territory goal changed from goal accomplished to goal failed, despite having been triggered earlier, giving me the golden age and everything. Savegame is attached.
svn is messed up again. can't commit or update. the above changes probably aren't in. no idea how to get around this.
@merijn_v1: I think we should go back to only 1 person making changes to the master copy, since neither of us knows what to do when these things happen,
edit: got it fixed
@merijn_v1: I think we should go back to only 1 person making changes to the master copy, since neither of us knows what to do when these things happen,
edit: got it fixed
DC123456789
Deity
Why is Sid the Han leaderhead?
If you ask me -- I was ok with her 
.DC123456789
Deity
Also, the legionary art is still three red blobs (as of two or three versions ago, which I'm playing right now).
Tigranes
Armenian
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2008
- Messages
- 9,927
Srpt (what does it stands for anyway? )-- I have a huge favor to ask: before we add any new feature could you please finish with UPs? I mean those that says not coded yet -- lets code them, and for the rest lets brainstorm and finish with them. Otherwise it is a little discouraging to play a civ without UP...
Also Armenian UHV checks Syria the moment I take over Antioch, even though there are 3 more cities in Syria. Also please erase Media and Judea from the UHV text.
)-- I have a huge favor to ask: before we add any new feature could you please finish with UPs? I mean those that says not coded yet -- lets code them, and for the rest lets brainstorm and finish with them. Otherwise it is a little discouraging to play a civ without UP... Also Armenian UHV checks Syria the moment I take over Antioch, even though there are 3 more cities in Syria. Also please erase Media and Judea from the UHV text.
added UPs for the Pandyans, Satavahanas, Dacians, Sassanids, Byzantines and Franks and cleaned up some others.
I'm happy to make UPs a main focus, but I'm also working chronologically so that's a factor as well.
I do appreciate your informed interest and enthusiasm. and I do need ideas for the other UPs.
also cleaned up Armenian UHV
and don't worry the little arrows on the tech screen will come back eventually. I need to find a way to make the tech tree fit on the screen without scrolling up and down. making the tech tree look nice is a pain.
I'm happy to make UPs a main focus, but I'm also working chronologically so that's a factor as well.
I do appreciate your informed interest and enthusiasm. and I do need ideas for the other UPs.
also cleaned up Armenian UHV
and don't worry the little arrows on the tech screen will come back eventually. I need to find a way to make the tech tree fit on the screen without scrolling up and down. making the tech tree look nice is a pain.
Tigranes
Armenian
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2008
- Messages
- 9,927
Good mod is a cross between entertainment, history, science and art. Please be patient when we are not patient enough. Rhye and edead have lifted the bar too high.
25 hummers are too little for slave, make it at least 30, as in the case of whipping. Plus moving whipping to serfdom is very counterintuitive -- if anything changing civics to serfdom should change all Slaves to Workers -- if you find the way to do it.
Sometimes one can capture his own former unit enslaved by enemy -- poor guys still stay slaves
We need a way to convert them back to the fighting unit.
But this can wait until UPs are done. I start thinking about them....
Rhye and edead have lifted the bar too high.25 hummers are too little for slave, make it at least 30, as in the case of whipping. Plus moving whipping to serfdom is very counterintuitive -- if anything changing civics to serfdom should change all Slaves to Workers -- if you find the way to do it.
Sometimes one can capture his own former unit enslaved by enemy -- poor guys still stay slaves
We need a way to convert them back to the fighting unit.But this can wait until UPs are done. I start thinking about them....
merijn_v1
Black Belt
I didn't have any problems with the SVN at all, since I started modding this mod. It seems they only appear on your computer. Could you post a screenshot of the error. Maybe I know what the problem is and how to avoid it.
It's just temporary. The art Wu had before caused CTD. This is a placeholder, until we find a better one.
Fixed.
25 hummers are too little for slave, make it at least 30, as in the case of whipping. Plus moving whipping to serfdom is very counterintuitive -- if anything changing civics to serfdom should change all Slaves to Workers -- if you find the way to do it.
Sometimes one can capture his own former unit enslaved by enemy -- poor guys still stay slaves
But this can wait until UPs are done. I start thinking about them....
I think 25 is a good amount of hammers. I played a game in which they provided 50
, which is way too much. I lowered it down to 25 . I think that's enough.Playing a game with the slave mechanics, I thought the following. I think you should only be able to enslave units when you attack. It seems strange to me for an army to capitulate and become a slave, when you're the one who's attacking.
Instead, when you attack the other and win, it's more likely to enslave the enemy units who capitulated because of your attack.
In addition, the chance of enslaving barbarians could be higher then enslaving vanilla civs units.
I'm not sure about the Satavahana UP. The make their UU useless, as they have the same ability. I suggest or bring the old UU back, or change the UP.
I will leave it for now. I think it makes sense as a feature of serfdom. I haven't really played the later civs much so I'll reserve judgement til I do.
Sometimes one can capture his own former unit enslaved by enemy -- poor guys still stay slaves
that might be quite hard to code. how to make the slave remember he used to be your soldier?
and I would like to tie more of the slavery effects to the civic and ideally to a corporation and building. as it is now you need slavery to acquire slaves, but not to use them or sell them. one easy python thing to do would be to destroy all the players slaves when he switches out of slavery.
switched the Satavahana UU back.
