RFC Classical World

I believe which the best shrine to represented the "Hellenic religion" is the Oracle of Delphi, but the Statue of Zeus is a other very good option, because, its, represented a great(really great) zone of peregrination(and of course the area of the Olympiad which has make to honor to Zeus), however, i think which the Oracle of Delphi is most appropriate in "multinational terms", because many cultures, especially in the Greece and Macedon which traveling to this shrine, no only to worshiper the gods( in the case Apollo is prominent), but, beyond it to make a political and personal "revelations"( the Oracle of Delphi has a strong-if not the strongest-political toll and inspiration in the hellenic world, note the Peloponnese war for example, and the political inclinations of the Oracle to Sparta ). However(AGAIN?!:crazyeye:), this mod stay in it beginning chronological in the "Wars of the Diadoch", and the culture and the religion represented is the "Hellenistic believe", and it have a great difference( i see it in my first year in the university), because the "Hellenic" is the religion and culture of the Hellas(Greece in simple terms) itself, but the "Hellenistic" was the "Hellenic culture" syncretised to the other cultures especially in the Near East and far Asia. Which it, we have MANY wonders to represented it,like the "Serapeum", the "Eleusis shrine"( The Thessalonian Massacre is a example of it) and of course the tomb of the Alexander. I Believe which is the best choice the Oracle of Delphi( because is had many peregrination in all history of the Classic World-the Eleusis shrine too) or the Tomb of Alexander the Great, because he has a great symbol of the diffusion of the "Hellenic" culture and a symbol of the "Hellenistic empires and the Hellenistic world", and his death is a beginning of the conjunctures which started the "Wars of the Diadochi" and is the chronological beginning of this mod. :p


PS. Is a good idea(and i think which it is was left aside in the other updates:confused:) is make a new python to the hellenistic religion buildings.
 
again, the choise depends of what we are looking for.. a place that a god could be worshipped, or a place that culture/art/science was studied and produced?

the oracle was a miracle of ancient times, the eleusis shrine is even more ancient and was a place that still today very few is known about the ceremonies that took place there. Let alone that none of these wasn't a place to worship Zeus.

The tomb of Alexander is a really interesting option though


edit: srpt have you considered adding Alexander's title as a reward for controling the area he had conquered? like all the other titles this would give some bonus to the "Great" emperor :)

edit 2: the Kushans need some SERIOUS nerf.. not only i agree to the flip, but my units join them aswell? oh give me a break...
 
Well, i think which is be good add more civilizations to this mod, in especially Hellenic civs, i think in this civilizations:

Greek Leagues
LH: "any greek leaderhead which is of this period"( is better if is a spartan, maybe "Nabis").
UB: Acropolis(replace courthouse, give +1 stability, +1 trade route, +5% Great People and 50% defense)
UU: Spartan hoplit(heavy spearman with extra 50% vs Melee and 50% vs Arrow- hoplits haved a best shield tham phalanx)
1°HV: Control all historically greek colonies and polis(All Greece, Thrace, Coast of Anatolia, cheronesus, south of Italy, Sicily, "Dodecaneso" and other parts of the Mediterran like Massilia, and one or two cities in Hispania) in X .
UP: The power of the Polis: All cities have +25% food, hammer and coin.
2°HV: Destroy the "Macedonians and the Illyrians".
3°HV: Have four Golden ages

Macedonian
LH: Antigonos(He was a Diadochi too)
UB: maybe a especial barracks(changed to the Seleucid UB)
UU: Macedonian Phalanx( heavy spearmen with 75% vs Melee and +20% strength.
UP: Power of the "Client state": Macedonia have +5 stability when conquest a city make vassals more easy.
1°HV: Control or vassalize the greeks in X.
2°HV: Clain the title of "Alexander the Great"(Conquest his empire) in X.
3°HV: Have more score(or "control or vassalize") than the romans, Illyrians or dacians.

Illyrian
LH: Teuta or Pyrrhos
UB: Pirates nest(replace the harbor,new water units have +2 exp and build 25% more faster)
UU: Mountain warrior(swordsman with 2 mountain combat)
UP: Power of Adriatic Sea: Your ships stated with 2 flanking
1°HV: Control or vassalize the Macedonians and the romans in X.
2°HV: Sink 15 ships.
3°HV: Have more score than Dacians, Thracian and greeks in X.

Thracians
LH: Lysimachus(he was a Diadochi too)
UB: Gymnasium(replace the aqueduct, +5 culture, +25% research, +10% Great people.)
UU: Bastarnae( a axeman similar to the falxman)
UP: Power of the fertile lands: All land plot have +2 food.
1°HV: Have more score than Macedonians, greeks, Illyrians, Seleucids and Ptolemaic empire in X.
2°HV: Control or Vassalize the dacians, Scythians and the Pontos.
3°HV: Have more territories than other "diadochis" and the romans.

Pontos
LH: Mithridates VI (he is the last Diadochi)
UB: Emporium(replace the lighthouse and give extra trade routes)
UU: Khûveshâvagânê Shâhvâr(special horseman with +25% vs arrow)
UP: The power of the "pontic lake"(black sea), your coastal cities train ships 50% more fast and have extra food with the sea resource.
1°HV: Control All Anatolia and Crimea in X.
2°HV: Control the Armenia, Caucasus, Thracia and the Scythian steppe.
3°HV: Control or Vassalize at least one diadochi and the Scythians.

Scythians
LH: Atheas
UB: Kurgan(a monument with extra culture)
UU: Scythian virgin maiden(a special Horse acher with 1 flanking and 1 drill)
UP: Power of the Guards of the Kingdom of Bosphoros: If you control the cheronessus, you receive in times in times a lot of money and "Bosphorian units"(Bosphoros Guard a special heavy spearmen with good defense) and +3 attitutes with the greeks.
1°HV: Raze at least 3 cities in any order in any of this regions: Caucasus, Armenia, Media, Anatolia, "Mikra Skythia", Thracia and Sarmatian steppe.
2°HV: Never lose any cities to the Sarmatians until X.
3°HV: Controlor Vassalize the Pontos, Sarmatians and the Armenians in X.

Sarmatians
LH: Spadines
UB: Animist workshop ( a forge with give more Happy and make the production of the mounted units 25% more fast)
UU: Roxalani lancers( a special lancer with 25% vs horseman, 25% vs arrow and 25% vs melee)
UP: The power of the Sarmatia Europae and Asiatica: all "steppe" tiles give +1 food and give attrition(like the "russian UP, but more weak).
1°HV: Destroy the Scythians and control all Scythia.
2°HV: Never lose a city for the goths, vandals and huns in X.
3°HV: Raze at least 4 romans cities and control one citie in North Iberia in 500AD.
 
I'm pretty sure that if there was room to add more civs, he would have done it by now. I'm not against Makedonia or the Antigonids as a civ, since it was a successor state to Alexander's empire, and could make Greece and Anatolia a more interestering place before the Roman/Byzantine arrival.

Also, I did some reasearch and realized that the political landscape of the levant in 320 BC is wrong: Syria belonged to Antigonos, who also had Anatolia. Antiocheia was not even founded in 320 BC, yet it is the Seleucid capital at the start of the game!

Following his and Lysimachus' victory over Antigonus Monophthalmus at the decisive Battle of Ipsus in 301 BC, Seleucus took control over eastern Anatolia and northern Syria.
In the latter area he founded a new capital at Antioch on the Orontes, a city he named after his father. An alternative capital was established at Seleucia on the Tigris, north of Babylon.
Click to expand...

Spoiler :

As of 303 BC:
Diadoch.png

 
So little space in the Greek peninsula and in anatolia/ Thrace for more civs... Scythians and Sarmatians would be good, but there are already a lot of civs... Maybe they will be introduced in a future release!
 
I think Sarmatians and Scythians are much better represented as sporadic waves of barbarians, because of their nomadic lifestyle. Not to mention that it will get completely annhiliated due to barbarians very shortly after they spawn...

Edit: when I was talking about civs in Anatolia/Greece, I meant one extra civ, not the ridiculous amount of 5 civs in the region as suggested by Mr.Kwast!
 
I really love this mod. I have already spent at least 12 hours playing it, and I am sure I am going to spend more.

So far, the single bug I found is in the pictures attached. The city became like after I left my old chinese civ for the Ham empire. It is working perfectly, produces gold, and the citizens does not get sad because of the lack of troops around Wu. Nobody attacked it so far, but it isn't in my border.

Many thanks again for donating your time making this great mod!:)
 

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Well, i noted the "space problem" because it, i had put in the greek, pontic, Sarmatia and in the Thrace UP based in the grow bonus!:cool:
Look the example of the "Greek League", this civilization have MANY cities in the Mediterranean and in little spaces, however, this civ have "The power of the Polis: All cities have +25% food, hammer and coin" and it mixed with their unique building the "Acropolis", and the many wonder they have, like the Colossus and the Statue of Zeus(maybe it can be the Hellenic shrine, and with we can resolve the problem of the chose of the hellenic shrine). The greek cities are more important in the most part of the "Diadochi wars", because they wanted gain their autonomy, like the hebrews in the Levant(the case of maccabees are most a religious motive than external control), if not make their importance in the history of the "Classical World" is like forgotten the importance of the celts.
In my adjusts, i believe have sufficient space for a civ grow, and is normal and historically accurate the classical civs in the Mediterranean stayed in little spaces, and it make them fighter for more land! :lol:
Other question is about the land of nations which are much close or in same area. It's simple! In the case of the Scythians, this people(which have many golden ages and conquest) begin declined near in 200BC, because they need confront the sarmatinas, and this people, which spawn like "barbs" in the 200BC, in 50 or 100AD, we can put they like a civ, which need put a over on the ruins of the Schytians. And both peoples are vitals to understand the relations and the history of the Caucasus peoples, and this effect in the world.(in both cases the commerce, and the "Semi-nomad" in the "protected cities", are vital to see which this land not has a "empty land". And the observation which this peoples are nomad(not in the all, once these peoples have begin adopt a sedentary way life in the cheronessus-specially the Schythians-, and had control urban areas), and barbarian, and they not life to much time, not justified represented all of them like a Barbs,because, the Scythian for example lived approximated 770 years(700 BC to +- 70AD), and the Sarmatinas +- 700 to 600 -years(600BC to 450AD), much more time like the Seleucid, the Ptolemaics, and of course the Hebrews(in the case the revolt), and like use the case of the revolt of Maccabees, because they not win this war in the final, and not formed of much time a kingdom(expect in the 900BC), and in the parameter of "are a people which note lived much time", then can be dissolved and represented like a Barbs, a Revolutionary barbarian army. And the final motive is of course the fun in fighting which many historical civs, and the fighting in the case of the sarmatinas and the schythians is the confront of they which the goths and huns for the caucasian steppes.

Above I put my delimitation of the geopolitics of my idea:

Levante-extracivs.png


Dalmcia.png


Pontos.png


;)
 
Mr.Kwast said:
Well, i noted the "space problem" because it, i had put in the greek, pontic, Sarmatia and in the Thrace UP based in the grow bonus!:cool:
Look the example of the "Greek League", this civilization have MANY cities in the Mediterranean and in little spaces, however, this civ have "The power of the Polis: All cities have +25% food, hammer and coin" and it mixed with their unique building the "Acropolis", and the many wonder they have, like the Colossus and the Statue of Zeus(maybe it can be the Hellenic shrine, and with we can resolve the problem of the chose of the hellenic shrine). The greek cities are more important in the most part of the "Diadochi wars", because they wanted gain their autonomy, like the hebrews in the Levant(the case of maccabees are most a religious motive than external control), if not make their importance in the history of the "Classical World" is like forgotten the importance of the celts.
In my adjusts, i believe have sufficient space for a civ grow, and is normal and historically accurate the classical civs in the Mediterranean stayed in little spaces, and it make them fighter for more land! :lol:
Other question is about the land of nations which are much close or in same area. It's simple! In the case of the Scythians, this people(which have many golden ages and conquest) begin declined near in 200BC, because they need confront the sarmatinas, and this people, which spawn like "barbs" in the 200BC, in 50 or 100AD, we can put they like a civ, which need put a over on the ruins of the Schytians. And both peoples are vitals to understand the relations and the history of the Caucasus peoples, and this effect in the world.(in both cases the commerce, and the "Semi-nomad" in the "protected cities", are vital to see which this land not has a "empty land". And the observation which this peoples are nomad(not in the all, once these peoples have begin adopt a sedentary way life in the cheronessus-specially the Schythians-, and had control urban areas), and barbarian, and they not life to much time, not justified represented all of them like a Barbs,because, the Scythian for example lived approximated 770 years(700 BC to +- 70AD), and the Sarmatinas +- 700 to 600 -years(600BC to 450AD), much more time like the Seleucid, the Ptolemaics, and of course the Hebrews(in the case the revolt), and like use the case of the revolt of Maccabees, because they not win this war in the final, and not formed of much time a kingdom(expect in the 900BC), and in the parameter of "are a people which note lived much time", then can be dissolved and represented like a Barbs, a Revolutionary barbarian army. And the final motive is of course the fun in fighting which many historical civs, and the fighting in the case of the sarmatinas and the schythians is the confront of they which the goths and huns for the caucasian steppes.

Above I put my delimitation of the geopolitics of my idea:

SNIP!

;)
Click to expand...

Your city spacing is ridiculous. That is all.
 
He means that they won't be very productive or large. If the idea is added perhaps a new civic "City States" should also be added.
 
Mr.Kwast said:
Is ridiculous?! Why? :confused:
In what i wrong?! i make it in good historical accurate! :crazyeye:
Click to expand...

Historical accuracy is important, but it shouldn't be the most important factor. If a game is very, very historical, but the gameplay sucks, the mod is crap. (IMO, gameplay is even more important than historicalness, within certain lines.)


More civs also makes the game slower. This mod already has a lot of civs. And with some features that will come, the game will become slower. The civs that are too important too be left out of the mod but not important enough to be represented as a real civ could be represented by independent cities or barbs. (I think that the Illyrians are a good example for an independent civ)

However, I do have the feeling that Greece is "empty". (I mean, a (playable) civ should be placed there. The independent cities just don't do it for me.) Just one civ representing all could do it for me.
 
I think that you refer to Rome:total war that there were both the Macedonians and The Greek city states as a playable choise.. the truth is that Civ 4 has a completely different concept and that if you made these civs playable their production would be so tiny that eventually they would become minor civs and puppets

Let alone that the Greeks were generally in decline and if we would like to keep the mod historical, they should get conquered soon after a few turns have passed from the beginning..

the civs available are ok IMO, balance is what we need at the moment

edit: I think i found a bug.. Playing as the Bactrians (yep again! they are my favourite civ :P ) i got a message that there was a Bactrian revolt in the city of Wu !!! in China!!!! then some turns after the message the city flipped to me!
 
Like I said, having one successor state in Anatolia and Greece would be fine, and would add interest to any of the successor state games, because right now it's just a 1 vs 1 of Ptolemy vs Seleukos, which could be better. Also, then a few more units for each successor state could be better justified, meaning that conquest UHVs will be more about tactics and diplomacy (avoiding a war against the other two at once) than dice rolls.
 
can you post a save?

I'm back and working on the Mysticism crash

edit: the crash occurs when a religion is founded.

edit again: I think I fixed it.

I'll address some other comments and suggestions:

I'm fairly certain there won't be any more civs. there are 38 already. I don't want to add any more Greek kingdoms because I have 3 already and I have the Gokturks and Khazars for steppe empires. I also feel like it would be very hard to get ai Rome to kill another civ almost every game to make a historical setting. they already have to ideally kill the Celts, Carthaginians, Ptolemys and partial Seleucids, thats enough.

the situation at the start date is warped I know. the date was pushed back to accommodate some of the UHVs.

the city ruins bug that happens when you switch civs is probably related to a similar bug I have in a certain kind of civ spawn, which I was never able to fix. I never switch civs, so I'm not sure when I'll get to that.

perhaps I should just move the hellenistic holy city to Athens and have the shrine be the Oracle or the Statue of Zeus. I like the idea of representing Alexandria as the center of hellenistic culture at the time but when it comes to the shrine nothing really works. of course the Oracle and the Statue of Zeus were built before the mod starts but so were all the other shrines.

fixed the Bactrians flipping the Chinese city, there was leftover culture in the WBS from when Han and the Bactrians switched places in the spawning order.
 
If you want something that was in Egypt and important at that time, perhaps the tomb of Alexander the Great could work?
 
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