RFC Classical World
- Thread starter srpt
- Start date
Cetrix
Merovingian
Yes, I don't know if there is a new version or if it's still beta testing.
the svn is updated very frequently, whenever I have something to add thats been tested. the non-svn is a bit stale right now. I will update it soon probably.
its actually not even a beta because there are many important features still to add including the syncretism religious victory, food trade routes, pilgrims and a couple of new ideas I had today:
the migrant unit:
built with food, expensive like a settler, adds 1 population, some of your culture, some espionage and a chance at your state religion to a foreign city, does not pass borders. to be used to soften up enemies before attacking and for some UHVs. if you and the other civ have the same state religion, relations will improve, if not they will worsen.
the tribute unit:
expensive unit, send to a foreign capital for a +1 boost in realtions.
these 2 units will give small civs new strategies against big empires. there are quite a few situations like that in the mod: Rome vs Dacia and Armenia; Funan, Tocharians and Korea vs China; Pandyans vs other Indian civs etc.
its actually not even a beta because there are many important features still to add including the syncretism religious victory, food trade routes, pilgrims and a couple of new ideas I had today:
the migrant unit:
built with food, expensive like a settler, adds 1 population, some of your culture, some espionage and a chance at your state religion to a foreign city, does not pass borders. to be used to soften up enemies before attacking and for some UHVs. if you and the other civ have the same state religion, relations will improve, if not they will worsen.
the tribute unit:
expensive unit, send to a foreign capital for a +1 boost in realtions.
these 2 units will give small civs new strategies against big empires. there are quite a few situations like that in the mod: Rome vs Dacia and Armenia; Funan, Tocharians and Korea vs China; Pandyans vs other Indian civs etc.
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2006
- Messages
- 2,431
Cool project, good start. Thanks for doing it.
One bug from today's SVN - the Bactrian 1st UHV is coded for 150 BC but the text says 100 BC. Also (maybe not a bug) it's possible to capture Taxila with your starting horse units, automatically building a palace that you don't get UHV credit for. I think ideally you would, since it's not guaranteed. Or maybe change the wording to "move palace to Taxila" to make it clearer.
One bug from today's SVN - the Bactrian 1st UHV is coded for 150 BC but the text says 100 BC. Also (maybe not a bug) it's possible to capture Taxila with your starting horse units, automatically building a palace that you don't get UHV credit for. I think ideally you would, since it's not guaranteed. Or maybe change the wording to "move palace to Taxila" to make it clearer.
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2006
- Messages
- 2,431
What I think would make the mod more fun for me personally - in the short term - is
1. Add a placeholder UHV for every civ. It doesn't have to be different from other civ's UHVs, just give me something to do when I try out the civ.
2. Flesh out the tech tree, in a placeholder kind of way. Make every tech do something. Add some more techs and make them all do something. It doesn't have to be creative or have good graphics. As long as it's not badly unbalanced, just give me something to do as I tech along.
3. Ideally I'd like to see a builder (space race style) victory at the end of the tech tree. I like epic RFC games that go to the end of the tech tree. Again, it wouldn't have to be fancy, just give me a goal to play toward other than a domination or cultural victory.
1. Add a placeholder UHV for every civ. It doesn't have to be different from other civ's UHVs, just give me something to do when I try out the civ.
2. Flesh out the tech tree, in a placeholder kind of way. Make every tech do something. Add some more techs and make them all do something. It doesn't have to be creative or have good graphics. As long as it's not badly unbalanced, just give me something to do as I tech along.
3. Ideally I'd like to see a builder (space race style) victory at the end of the tech tree. I like epic RFC games that go to the end of the tech tree. Again, it wouldn't have to be fancy, just give me a goal to play toward other than a domination or cultural victory.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
1. The mod is quite young. We haven't been able to code all UHV yet. You can set up your own goal. (Like own an empire from Spain to China)
2. See story, young mod. But this is one of my main priorities. I will also make a list of the buildings and the unit-upgrades.
3. I also like it very much. Do you have an idea what could be a replacement for the Space Race? However, if this will ever come, it wouldn't be very soon. We first want to make the RFC basics work and balance the mod.
2 things:
1 - I think I figured out a good way to implement the great synthesis/UN victory replacement:
replace the academy with 11 academies, 1 per religion, buildable with a great scientist like before but requiring that religion in the city, science boost lowered to 20%.
these academies each produce 3 instances of a resource called "hellenic wisdom" or whatever.
each of these resources increases the build speed of the great synthesis by 5% and also gives +1 happy with the appropriate cathedral to give it another tradeable value.
the UN represents the unification of the world's great traditions into a single idea, if enough civs agree that you have found the true way, ie vote for you, you win a religious victory.
so now there will actually be a reason to found manichaeism.
2 - I was buffing egypt's production when I meant to nerf it. I haven't had time to change it in the svn yet but I will tonight. they will be weaker. I had also radically buffed the production of the tiny civs: saba, tocharians ans pandyans.
1 - I think I figured out a good way to implement the great synthesis/UN victory replacement:
replace the academy with 11 academies, 1 per religion, buildable with a great scientist like before but requiring that religion in the city, science boost lowered to 20%.
these academies each produce 3 instances of a resource called "hellenic wisdom" or whatever.
each of these resources increases the build speed of the great synthesis by 5% and also gives +1 happy with the appropriate cathedral to give it another tradeable value.
the UN represents the unification of the world's great traditions into a single idea, if enough civs agree that you have found the true way, ie vote for you, you win a religious victory.
so now there will actually be a reason to found manichaeism.
2 - I was buffing egypt's production when I meant to nerf it. I haven't had time to change it in the svn yet but I will tonight. they will be weaker. I had also radically buffed the production of the tiny civs: saba, tocharians ans pandyans.
the following civs now have coded UHVs, UUs and UBs (some have UPs but not all):
Seleucids, Ptolemys, Mauryans, Carthage, Celts, Nubia, Tocharians, Armenia, Han, Rome, Satavahana, Bactria, Parthia, Sassanids and the Kushans. I'm very curious to know how difficult they are. I think I may have fixed the problem of the sassanids destroying persepolis when they spawn, if not just WB it back and make it the zoroastrian holy city. next up are Axum, Saba and the Pandyans.
Seleucids, Ptolemys, Mauryans, Carthage, Celts, Nubia, Tocharians, Armenia, Han, Rome, Satavahana, Bactria, Parthia, Sassanids and the Kushans. I'm very curious to know how difficult they are. I think I may have fixed the problem of the sassanids destroying persepolis when they spawn, if not just WB it back and make it the zoroastrian holy city. next up are Axum, Saba and the Pandyans.
balance is getting a bit better. here's my best auto-play result so far at the Dacian spawn in 80BC. Strong Parthia expanding into India. Egypt & Seleucids dead, Romans in Egypt, Levant and N Africa. This is with Roman conqueror events vs Egypt, Carthage, Celts and Seleucids for the AI only.
Attachments
Regarding balance (SVN downloaded 1-2 week ago, two games with the Mauryan auto-conversion, two games with it fixed): I have only tried the Seleucids so far, four times. I lost due to the following: 1) economic collapse due to not setting research to zero. 2) Suprised by the Romans. 3) Suprised by the Parthians. 4) Tried to go for Greece and Anatolia before Egypt, but couldn't conquer Egypt in time to turn back and beat the Romans.
The Seleucids are difficult, in the sense that you probably won't win the first time you try them. But it really isn't supposed to feel like a walk in the park. It feels very probable that, with better play, I will be able to prepare for the historic threats that arise. So to conclude, difficulty is excellent, hard but not impossible. Removing Nicomedia will make it easier for them.
As for their UHV, you will succeed with the third one (get three great generals) more or less automatically if you succeed with the other two, so in itself it is not that interesting. The other two feel very historical.
I'm looking forward to trying the other civs when I eventually succeed with Seleucids
The Seleucids are difficult, in the sense that you probably won't win the first time you try them. But it really isn't supposed to feel like a walk in the park. It feels very probable that, with better play, I will be able to prepare for the historic threats that arise. So to conclude, difficulty is excellent, hard but not impossible. Removing Nicomedia will make it easier for them.
As for their UHV, you will succeed with the third one (get three great generals) more or less automatically if you succeed with the other two, so in itself it is not that interesting. The other two feel very historical.
I'm looking forward to trying the other civs when I eventually succeed with Seleucids
those map changes are in the svn now and there's also a new non-svn going up today.
thanks for the feedback rrosen. I'm glad the seleucids are hard. the map changes will help them: they have 1 less city to conquer and 2 of their starting cities are less crowded. I'd like the great general goal to be enough of a challenge that at least the player will have to keep fighting someone, anyone right up until the deadline, so I think I will tweak the great general rate. when were you getting the 3rd general?
thanks for the feedback rrosen. I'm glad the seleucids are hard. the map changes will help them: they have 1 less city to conquer and 2 of their starting cities are less crowded. I'd like the great general goal to be enough of a challenge that at least the player will have to keep fighting someone, anyone right up until the deadline, so I think I will tweak the great general rate. when were you getting the 3rd general?
Some more thoughts on the Seleucids:
Money is really, really tight in the beginning. I start with setting research to zero. Some cities produce workers, other fairgrounds, a few barracks/archers to act as defenders. Army is sent towards Egypt. The Pyramids, newly added (haven't seen it before today's svn), can be built in a single turn, surely something is odd with that?
Early war with Ptomlemaios allows easy capture of Jerusalem, and eventually all of Egypt. I gained a relic from Jerusalem, but not sure of what to do with it.
I hired a horseman as a mercenary, but it didn't turn up until 10-20 turns afterwards.
Rhodes spawn in the water.
The prebuilt roads to Anatolia certainly makes it easier now.
The Romans now spawn with war, which is good. One of the previous tries I managed to get them to open border and wander through my empire to do war against the Bactrians, which felt like cheating.
Due to the changed city placement in Anatolia, the Armenians have now built Trapezus, which requires conquering. That makes the Seleucid UHV harder, was that intended?
Greece is captured fairly easily, so by 246 only Trapezus remains, but I still feel stressed. The empire is unstable (-27 stability), and I don't know of a good way to boost stability, so the Ptomlemids might declare independence any minute. Luckily, the Armenians are friendly and make peace immediately after Trapezus falls.
Then, however, a Roman stack of doom approaches Salonika. It has 8 legions, and I only left my two war elephants and a spearman in Greece. I cheat by giving away Salonika to the Armenians. I think the Armenians should not accept cities in Greece (like the Mauryans won't accept any city except Herat).
With collapsing economy, every city runs wealth, and I am still at a deficit. Having the mercenary (57 gold to buy, 3 gold upkeep for quite a while) was a bad idea!
The pirate galley massacres my fishing boats, as the fleet was disbanded due to lack of funds.
Several resources in Egypt (dates on flood plains, stone on hills) are inaccessible for workers, is that intended?
The Parthians start with huge stacks, and force you to move troops to Ecbatana. It is frustrating that they flip, but at the same time good - you are forced to keep enough defenders, which will give them another boost. Not sure if I should've refused the flip.
Some of our forces are joining the enemy, even though I refused the flip. Is that supposed to happen?
Egypt did eventually revolt, in 148. I let them go.
Romans declared war again the turn after Egypt revolted (were they scared of my might before that?). Conquerors spawned in the middle of Anatolia, at Trapezus. That was really unexpected, as I had already met the Romans once, and thought they wouldn't get a second conqueror event. As Trapezus fell, the UHV of not losing a city failed and I lost my fifth try. At that point (142 BC), I was at 26/50 for my third great general, so if I just had survived without losing a city, it would have been accomplished easily.
All in all, a fun try. The Roman legionaries are really scary! I think I should've made peace with Parthia as soon as possible and only left defenders. As it happened, I had placed my main army in Iraq, to reconquer the Parthian lands, which left the rear open for the Romans.
Money is really, really tight in the beginning. I start with setting research to zero. Some cities produce workers, other fairgrounds, a few barracks/archers to act as defenders. Army is sent towards Egypt. The Pyramids, newly added (haven't seen it before today's svn), can be built in a single turn, surely something is odd with that?
Early war with Ptomlemaios allows easy capture of Jerusalem, and eventually all of Egypt. I gained a relic from Jerusalem, but not sure of what to do with it.
I hired a horseman as a mercenary, but it didn't turn up until 10-20 turns afterwards.
Rhodes spawn in the water.
The prebuilt roads to Anatolia certainly makes it easier now.
The Romans now spawn with war, which is good. One of the previous tries I managed to get them to open border and wander through my empire to do war against the Bactrians, which felt like cheating.
Due to the changed city placement in Anatolia, the Armenians have now built Trapezus, which requires conquering. That makes the Seleucid UHV harder, was that intended?
Greece is captured fairly easily, so by 246 only Trapezus remains, but I still feel stressed. The empire is unstable (-27 stability), and I don't know of a good way to boost stability, so the Ptomlemids might declare independence any minute. Luckily, the Armenians are friendly and make peace immediately after Trapezus falls.
Then, however, a Roman stack of doom approaches Salonika. It has 8 legions, and I only left my two war elephants and a spearman in Greece. I cheat by giving away Salonika to the Armenians. I think the Armenians should not accept cities in Greece (like the Mauryans won't accept any city except Herat).
With collapsing economy, every city runs wealth, and I am still at a deficit. Having the mercenary (57 gold to buy, 3 gold upkeep for quite a while) was a bad idea!
The pirate galley massacres my fishing boats, as the fleet was disbanded due to lack of funds.
Several resources in Egypt (dates on flood plains, stone on hills) are inaccessible for workers, is that intended?
The Parthians start with huge stacks, and force you to move troops to Ecbatana. It is frustrating that they flip, but at the same time good - you are forced to keep enough defenders, which will give them another boost. Not sure if I should've refused the flip.
Some of our forces are joining the enemy, even though I refused the flip. Is that supposed to happen?
Egypt did eventually revolt, in 148. I let them go.
Romans declared war again the turn after Egypt revolted (were they scared of my might before that?). Conquerors spawned in the middle of Anatolia, at Trapezus. That was really unexpected, as I had already met the Romans once, and thought they wouldn't get a second conqueror event. As Trapezus fell, the UHV of not losing a city failed and I lost my fifth try. At that point (142 BC), I was at 26/50 for my third great general, so if I just had survived without losing a city, it would have been accomplished easily.
All in all, a fun try. The Roman legionaries are really scary! I think I should've made peace with Parthia as soon as possible and only left defenders. As it happened, I had placed my main army in Iraq, to reconquer the Parthian lands, which left the rear open for the Romans.
thanks for the detailed report. I'm glad it was fun. of course feel free to ply the WB if you think anything is seriously out of whack. I fixed Rhodes and the egyptian resources. I tried to delay mercenary hiring til turn 15 but I guess I just prevented them from arriving til then. I'll have another look at that.
about the seleucids never lose a city goal: I'm not sure why I set it for 200AD. in RL they were collapsed by 75BC so I think I'll make that the deadline. I don't see much point in asking them to hang on for another 370 years after the Parthian spawn.
about the seleucids never lose a city goal: I'm not sure why I set it for 200AD. in RL they were collapsed by 75BC so I think I'll make that the deadline. I don't see much point in asking them to hang on for another 370 years after the Parthian spawn.
thank you so much for the detailed report. I've been playing the egyptians, bactrians and kushans so its great to hear about other civs. I'm actually scared to try the seleucids (I'm not a very good player lol).
looking back at their UHVs I'm not sure why I asked them to survive til 200AD. I've just changed it to 75BC for the "do not lose a city" and 50BC for the great generals.
it is intended that they cannot afford to tech and need to keep taking cities for money, so going for the armenians might actually help if you run out of people to fight.
the romans are not intended to be beatable in a straight fight til you have lancers (selective breeding) or swordsmen (steel working) so the seleucids should have to resort to bribery, turtling behind walls and suicide catapults.
what do you think of their UU? they could easily be changed to city defenders or something else, but they are supposed to be weak against both legions and parthian lancers.
the Rhodes spawn, the Pyramids (pre-placed in Diospolis) and the inaccessible Egyptian resources are fixed in the svn.
when you say Egypt revolted you mean indy cities or a respawn? if Egypt respawns it should be with Cleopatra as leader and a desire to vassalize to the romans.
I've always gotten the message that my troops are joining the other side but never noticed any actually leaving. did you?
also until recently there was a typo in the Barbs module that was causing Parthia to be collapsed by a tidal wave of Saka horse archers around 100bc, so they (parthia) are much stronger now.
and if anyone is playing the non-svn please let me know as it now needs a couple of important fixes.
looking back at their UHVs I'm not sure why I asked them to survive til 200AD. I've just changed it to 75BC for the "do not lose a city" and 50BC for the great generals.
it is intended that they cannot afford to tech and need to keep taking cities for money, so going for the armenians might actually help if you run out of people to fight.
the romans are not intended to be beatable in a straight fight til you have lancers (selective breeding) or swordsmen (steel working) so the seleucids should have to resort to bribery, turtling behind walls and suicide catapults.
what do you think of their UU? they could easily be changed to city defenders or something else, but they are supposed to be weak against both legions and parthian lancers.
the Rhodes spawn, the Pyramids (pre-placed in Diospolis) and the inaccessible Egyptian resources are fixed in the svn.
when you say Egypt revolted you mean indy cities or a respawn? if Egypt respawns it should be with Cleopatra as leader and a desire to vassalize to the romans.
I've always gotten the message that my troops are joining the other side but never noticed any actually leaving. did you?
also until recently there was a typo in the Barbs module that was causing Parthia to be collapsed by a tidal wave of Saka horse archers around 100bc, so they (parthia) are much stronger now.
and if anyone is playing the non-svn please let me know as it now needs a couple of important fixes.
I think their UU is good and appropriate. My main army consisted of the two war elephants and the rest being UU.
Egypt respawned, so that's all as it is supposed to be.
Regarding the spawned Roman stack in Anatolia: is that something that was supposed to happen? (Or had they perhaps sneaked an army through Armenia? I should look that up in my autosaves when I get home).
Egypt respawned, so that's all as it is supposed to be.
Regarding the spawned Roman stack in Anatolia: is that something that was supposed to happen? (Or had they perhaps sneaked an army through Armenia? I should look that up in my autosaves when I get home).
I thought they got a first stack in the initial war (they spawned at war with me, and came with a large stack towards Greece), but could be wrong. Even if it was only a single stack, I think the random spawning position might be a problem. I reloaded the autosave, did a few things different (declared peace with Parthians) - and now the Roman stack spawned near Herat! It is very hard for the player to prepare against this. Perhaps the stack could always spawn in for example north Levant against the Seleucids, and a suitably subtle warning be included in the dawn of man text?
Spoiler :
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