I see them as quite different. the Vietnam civ represents a local dynasty that started in 258bc but was soon conquered, first by Nanyue and then by Han China, there was the Trung Sisters rebellion in 40ad, then more Chinese rule for hundreds of years. so it is a bit of a "what if" civ in terms of its political independence, but it represents a culture which was always there and still is. the Nanyue civ represents a short-lived regime led by a former Qin general who resisted Han conquest for a while. he conquered northern vietnam and incorporated it into his kingdom. my thinking is, if theres going to be a playable vietnamese civ in this time frame, goal #1 has to be: don't get conquered by the chinese. gameplay-wise, we need as many civs in east asia as we can come up with. with Vietnam and Nanyue both included its starting to feel interesting.
RFC Classical World
- Thread starter srpt
- Start date
Cetrix
Merovingian
How did you code the "romans conquerors" ? They want to "kill" a specific civilization by conquest or just get some cities and areas ?
Anyway, it's really a good job.
(Note : we still need a new non svn link. Thank you)
(edit) I missed what Leoreth said, I know how to do with svn now.
Anyway, it's really a good job.
(Note : we still need a new non svn link. Thank you)
(edit) I missed what Leoreth said, I know how to do with svn now.
Rome has a large starting amount of legionaries. They will pursue their war maps as normal civs would do (so watch out if you are the Seleucids and have Greece!). Additionally, when they declare (or are declared) war against several civs, including Carthage, Egypt, Seleucids and soon Judea (how about Celts?) as ai player only, they will receive a stack spawned close to on of the cities of that civ. As a human player of Rome, you don't get any conquerors.
It is a very neat design, it allows you as human player of the other civs to defend against Rome which is quite a challenge, and at the same time Rome will usually conquer its historical extent.
It is a very neat design, it allows you as human player of the other civs to defend against Rome which is quite a challenge, and at the same time Rome will usually conquer its historical extent.
Wessel V1
Emperor
I can't download the latest non-svn version (March 29th), because for some odd reason jzip can't open the file.
I would strongly recommend using the svn version. Leoreth posted a good tutorial on how to use it, http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11363870&postcount=321
sorry I haven't updated in a while. I'm trying to fix a really annoying bug.
re: Great Library. you should be able to get literature in time and by then you should have a great engineer from the Pyramids.
re: Judah. my last Parthian game they were destroyed shortly after spawn, so they're not always powerful.
re: Great Library. you should be able to get literature in time and by then you should have a great engineer from the Pyramids.
re: Judah. my last Parthian game they were destroyed shortly after spawn, so they're not always powerful.
Revision 255, Judea
I spawned with no defenders in Jerusalem, 1 citizen.
Damascus is immediately captured (cost 2 axemen against a single hoplite)
and Tyre as well (two spearmen).
I go for Aleppo as well, but the Seleucid elephants arrive and take Damascus where my two veteran Maccabees are healing.
Then Tyre is lost. I clearly overextended by going for Aleppo. Time to restart.
I take Jerusalem, Damascus and Tyre.
Then bribe the Seleucids for 100 gold to make peace, as I didn't think I could stand up to their military.
I think the first victory condition might be bugged, Syria is marked as controlled even though the Seleucids still control Aleppo and Antioch.
The Sabeans are kind enough to sell some techs before our war.
Macoraba is captured quite easily, and the Satavahanas are willing to trade iron.
Seleucids collapse in 131 BC, though my army is away in Saba.
Jerusalem had started building a Jewish temple immediately. As soon as it is finished, I switch the lone citizen to be a priest. 34 turns to get a great prophet, will be tight.
Pirates ravage the shore, and there is nothing I can do.
The Parthians arrive in Aleppo, I hop to avoid their wrath.
The Romans take Antioch in 102 BC.
I'm quite glad that the goal don't seem to be for all of Syria, and hope the Parthians and Romans will fight each other.
Parthia insists on a tribute of 200 gold, I pay.
In 77 BC, my great saint is born!
I score the second UHV to get the Temple of Solomon. Time to concentrate on the last goal, get Theology. All cities build libraries and observatories. I discover monasticism in 50 BC and sell it for a good price. In 44, Parthia declares war.
I snatch Aleppo, but hope the Romans won't attack me for it.
Parthia turns up with a threatening army, but again a tribute of 100 gold fixes the peace.
The Romans demand tech in tribute, of course I give in.
In 6 AD I discover theology and found christianity.
Victory!
Somewhat sad with the replay map bug.
I got David the Builder.
Edit: Playing as Judea was a great experience. You are surrounded by powerful neighbors, but have a very nice defensive unit, and can try to play the diplomacy/bribery game to keep them away, which you need to do in order to score the other goals. Tech and great saint are tough, but certainly very possible as I managed on my second try (no reloading done). I wonder how the Seleucids are affected by Judea, is it still possible to win their UHV?
I spawned with no defenders in Jerusalem, 1 citizen.
Spoiler :
Damascus is immediately captured (cost 2 axemen against a single hoplite)
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
I take Jerusalem, Damascus and Tyre.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Then bribe the Seleucids for 100 gold to make peace, as I didn't think I could stand up to their military.
Spoiler :
I think the first victory condition might be bugged, Syria is marked as controlled even though the Seleucids still control Aleppo and Antioch.
Spoiler :
The Sabeans are kind enough to sell some techs before our war.
Spoiler :
Macoraba is captured quite easily, and the Satavahanas are willing to trade iron.
Spoiler :
Seleucids collapse in 131 BC, though my army is away in Saba.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Jerusalem had started building a Jewish temple immediately. As soon as it is finished, I switch the lone citizen to be a priest. 34 turns to get a great prophet, will be tight.
Pirates ravage the shore, and there is nothing I can do.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
The Parthians arrive in Aleppo, I hop to avoid their wrath.
Spoiler :
The Romans take Antioch in 102 BC.
Spoiler :
I'm quite glad that the goal don't seem to be for all of Syria, and hope the Parthians and Romans will fight each other.
Parthia insists on a tribute of 200 gold, I pay.
Spoiler :
In 77 BC, my great saint is born!
Spoiler :
I score the second UHV to get the Temple of Solomon. Time to concentrate on the last goal, get Theology. All cities build libraries and observatories. I discover monasticism in 50 BC and sell it for a good price. In 44, Parthia declares war.
Spoiler :
I snatch Aleppo, but hope the Romans won't attack me for it.
Spoiler :
Parthia turns up with a threatening army, but again a tribute of 100 gold fixes the peace.
Spoiler :
The Romans demand tech in tribute, of course I give in.
Spoiler :
In 6 AD I discover theology and found christianity.
Spoiler :
Victory!
Spoiler :
Somewhat sad with the replay map bug.
Spoiler :
I got David the Builder.
Spoiler :
Edit: Playing as Judea was a great experience. You are surrounded by powerful neighbors, but have a very nice defensive unit, and can try to play the diplomacy/bribery game to keep them away, which you need to do in order to score the other goals. Tech and great saint are tough, but certainly very possible as I managed on my second try (no reloading done). I wonder how the Seleucids are affected by Judea, is it still possible to win their UHV?
awesome report. I'm really glad I decided to include the Maccabees. I guess I will have to make them harder though. it was an oversight to let them get away with just 1 city in each province. if they have to control Syria then they probably cannot avoid war with either Parthia or Rome, maybe both.
Civciv5
Grand Emperor
How about adding the Nabataean Kingdom?
They had a empire that spanned from Mada'in Saleh to Damascus and had Judea as sort of a vassal.
They had a empire that spanned from Mada'in Saleh to Damascus and had Judea as sort of a vassal.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
I'm not sure. As a civ, they are a good. But I think for gameplay reasons it's better to leave them out. The area they controlled is mostly infertile on our map. And the fertile areas are mostly controlled by an other civ. And IMO, those other civs had a bigger role in history than the Nabataeans.
And more civs means a slower game.
And more civs means a slower game.
The problem with this argument is that it makes a stronger case for Nabataea than for Judah. I'm not really a fan of the Judah civ currently.
Wessel V1
Emperor
I tested some civs and I have to say that many goals are quite tough. For example as the Mauryans, you are not allowed to lose an elephant, even though you'll face many 70% battles. As a result, you need to build a few more, also to take out the Pandyans. Of course you can cheat the system by reloading every time (which I used to do often in Civ 4), but the game can't be designed to be so neat that is is mandatory. There is very little time however to create defenders for newly conquered cities, new units to conquer cities in time, a workers or maybe two to get the economy running at all, Fairgrounds for a minimum economy and even a few settler. I understand that I still have to learn how to optimize my play for this mod, but currently I think some UHVs are too hard at this moment. I like the fact that the general required level of play is high but time is a little too tight IMO.
Wessel V1
Emperor
The same more or less applies to the Celts. The Romans are absolutely deadly if they strike early. The key is not to take Massilia early and just hope that the Legionairs go east. To be not completely dependent on Lugdunum, a few more workers have to be created (chopping takes ages) for Burdigala and Lutetia. And to be independent on a great amount of luck, at the same time you need to build Gaellic Warriors, a lot of them, both to defend Gaul and to take Anatolia. I think next time I'm going to raze Mediolanum (or squat Rome) and walk to South Italy to attack them in the back. Does feel like cheating IMO, but if it works...
Cetrix
Merovingian
With the Seleucids (IA or human), the main problem is the stability... they collapse too soon. I think it's not a problem actually, but you should add a new mechanism : if the seleucid collapse, they are not kicked from the game but they keep Syria and the capital is moved to Antioch, even if the human is playing this civ. Maybe with an event ? (like in India) This is more historical, and this way the IA keep a few cities rather than disappear early from the game (about 130BC).
Romans also should be more agressive vs human seleucid, if we take greece.
Egypt IA must be more aggressive VS human or AI seleucid, they had tons of wars in history.
And... this is always a pleasure to play this mod. Later it will be a must have, like SoI is.
Romans also should be more agressive vs human seleucid, if we take greece.
Egypt IA must be more aggressive VS human or AI seleucid, they had tons of wars in history.
And... this is always a pleasure to play this mod. Later it will be a must have, like SoI is.
Wessel V1
Emperor
So, I tried to capture Rome right from the beginning but the game crashed. Save included. SVN version 255.
EDIT: I didn't have a capital (because I wanted to nerf Rome as much as possible) so I didn't build Lugdunum yet. I reloaded and built Lugdunum right before I captured Rome, and met Carthage. Maybe that caused the bug. Since it is not too regular that Carthage settles Sardinia, I'll try to create a save where I don't meet Carthage when I capture Rome.
2nd EDIT: Apparently no crash on contact, but on capture.
EDIT: I didn't have a capital (because I wanted to nerf Rome as much as possible) so I didn't build Lugdunum yet. I reloaded and built Lugdunum right before I captured Rome, and met Carthage. Maybe that caused the bug. Since it is not too regular that Carthage settles Sardinia, I'll try to create a save where I don't meet Carthage when I capture Rome.
2nd EDIT: Apparently no crash on contact, but on capture.
Red Boxer
Prince
I could be wrong, but I think their is something amiss with the Sunga Empire's techs. They discovered Christianity and Islam both and very early.
I also ran into a weird problem when trying to start a game as the Byzantines, the city wasn't appearing on the map but you could access it from the city adviser screen. This happened on multiple attempts.
I also ran into a weird problem when trying to start a game as the Byzantines, the city wasn't appearing on the map but you could access it from the city adviser screen. This happened on multiple attempts.
tech costs are out of whack right now. I will re-do them today.
the Byzantine spawn thing I've been working on, hopefully I'll figure it out today.
keeping the Seleucids alive is a goal. I kid of like the idea of them moving to Antioch and keeping Syria. stability can be an issue for Rome too. just trying to feel my way towards something appropriate and balanced.
I like Judah being there, I actually think it makes the eastern mediterranean more historic-feeling. I am committed to keeping their power in check though. I would actually like them to get summarily crushed at least half the time as AI. I think the Seleucids are the key. They often go unstable/collapsing even before the Parthian spawn. I've just removed the stability hits they take from the Judean and Armenian spawn. hopefully that will help.
the Byzantine bug will occur with the following civs, btw, Han, Jin, Kushans maybe a couple others. if you WB the city to another owner and then back to you it should fix it.
the Celts are hard. I think they will have to always rely on luck. I don't mind that so much since theres no loading times.
I have achieved the Mauryan territorial goal with no starting elephants and no reloading, and I'm not a very good player, so I know its not that hard.
I'm currently focused on trying to make some of the goals harder. I may make the Egyptian Alexandria goal check twice: once in 200BC when Pataliputra is at its peak before the Sunga war and once in 50BC when Luoyang should have grown big. I also made the Pandyans go for the Great Lighthouse and I may make someone else like the Great Library. also the Parthians biggest empire in 50BC is a bit easy. any ideas?
and I'm quite sure the civ list is now closed. the Nabateans are represented by barbs.
and I will look into Wessels crash.
the Byzantine spawn thing I've been working on, hopefully I'll figure it out today.
keeping the Seleucids alive is a goal. I kid of like the idea of them moving to Antioch and keeping Syria. stability can be an issue for Rome too. just trying to feel my way towards something appropriate and balanced.
I like Judah being there, I actually think it makes the eastern mediterranean more historic-feeling. I am committed to keeping their power in check though. I would actually like them to get summarily crushed at least half the time as AI. I think the Seleucids are the key. They often go unstable/collapsing even before the Parthian spawn. I've just removed the stability hits they take from the Judean and Armenian spawn. hopefully that will help.
the Byzantine bug will occur with the following civs, btw, Han, Jin, Kushans maybe a couple others. if you WB the city to another owner and then back to you it should fix it.
the Celts are hard. I think they will have to always rely on luck. I don't mind that so much since theres no loading times.
I have achieved the Mauryan territorial goal with no starting elephants and no reloading, and I'm not a very good player, so I know its not that hard.
I'm currently focused on trying to make some of the goals harder. I may make the Egyptian Alexandria goal check twice: once in 200BC when Pataliputra is at its peak before the Sunga war and once in 50BC when Luoyang should have grown big. I also made the Pandyans go for the Great Lighthouse and I may make someone else like the Great Library. also the Parthians biggest empire in 50BC is a bit easy. any ideas?
and I'm quite sure the civ list is now closed. the Nabateans are represented by barbs.
and I will look into Wessels crash.
re Wessel_V1's crash: I loaded it, took Rome, and it crashed. then I gave myself contact with Carthage first and it didn't crash. then I tried it again without the Carthage contact and it didn't crash. strange.
and about the UHV, its to destroy Rome the civ not Rome the city (maybe you knew that). were you going to squat them? I don't know how that would work out since Gallic Warriors get no extra bonus defending vs Legionaries and Rome is not on a hill. I realise its awkward having to wait for a civ to spawn and then destroy them. perhaps I should have the Celts spawn just after the Romans. I think its kind of important that they don't flip Massilia. it was a Greek city. I would actually almost flip it to the Romans, since I think I read that they voluntarily vassalized to Rome in fear of the Celts.
there are no Roman conquerors for the Celts btw. the reasons being the Romans don't have to cross water to get to the Celts and they don't have critical enemies to meet on the far side, like the Parthians.
and about the UHV, its to destroy Rome the civ not Rome the city (maybe you knew that). were you going to squat them? I don't know how that would work out since Gallic Warriors get no extra bonus defending vs Legionaries and Rome is not on a hill. I realise its awkward having to wait for a civ to spawn and then destroy them. perhaps I should have the Celts spawn just after the Romans. I think its kind of important that they don't flip Massilia. it was a Greek city. I would actually almost flip it to the Romans, since I think I read that they voluntarily vassalized to Rome in fear of the Celts.
there are no Roman conquerors for the Celts btw. the reasons being the Romans don't have to cross water to get to the Celts and they don't have critical enemies to meet on the far side, like the Parthians.
tech costs should be better now. I haven't tested the later stages but the early part seems good and the later techs are much more expensive, so hopefully there won't be any more early Islam.
I'm pretty sure there is a bug giving the AI Seleucids extra workers. they had at least 20 of them in 200BC. this may be why they suddenly go unstable, paying tons of unit costs.
I'm giving Seleucus every reason to attack Egypt. hopefully he will start doing that soon.
I made the Lighthouse the favorite wonder of the Pandyans and Carthage so if you're Egypt its wise to beeline it now. I got Horticulture in 216BC with the new tech costs and the Lighthouse in 200. then I was looking at 25 turns for Priesthood or 100 for Marksmanship.
and I've just noticed another thing about the AI Seleucids: they blow all their gold upgrading their Spearmen to Hoplites.
I just watched them (the Seleucids) for a while. they had at least 1 more worker every 10 turns and I only saw them being built once or twice. they built lots of units, improved lots of land, crushed the Judeans in a few turns and then went unstable/collapsing within a few turns of the Parthian spawn. but now they've beaten the Parthians and are back to stable/shaky in 95BC. I think they need their production nerfed.
I may have Spearmen not upgrade to Heavy Spearmen. I really don't want the Seleucids to have 10 Hoplites on turn 2. either that or I start them without Military Drill.
I'm pretty sure there is a bug giving the AI Seleucids extra workers. they had at least 20 of them in 200BC. this may be why they suddenly go unstable, paying tons of unit costs.
I'm giving Seleucus every reason to attack Egypt. hopefully he will start doing that soon.
I made the Lighthouse the favorite wonder of the Pandyans and Carthage so if you're Egypt its wise to beeline it now. I got Horticulture in 216BC with the new tech costs and the Lighthouse in 200. then I was looking at 25 turns for Priesthood or 100 for Marksmanship.
and I've just noticed another thing about the AI Seleucids: they blow all their gold upgrading their Spearmen to Hoplites.
I just watched them (the Seleucids) for a while. they had at least 1 more worker every 10 turns and I only saw them being built once or twice. they built lots of units, improved lots of land, crushed the Judeans in a few turns and then went unstable/collapsing within a few turns of the Parthian spawn. but now they've beaten the Parthians and are back to stable/shaky in 95BC. I think they need their production nerfed.
I may have Spearmen not upgrade to Heavy Spearmen. I really don't want the Seleucids to have 10 Hoplites on turn 2. either that or I start them without Military Drill.
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