RFC Classical World

[srpt]

merijn, the files are here.

road pillaging: yes I disabled it because I didn't want the silk road being wrecked all the time. at the time I didn't know that roads outside of cultural borders were already immune. why is the extra pillage button ruining your day? is anything wrong besides the button being there? can't you just ignore it for now?

Tyranny: I always found 1 happy face per military unit a bit easy, so I wanted there to be penalties. less culture seems appropriate. the extra unhappiness is just to make it a bit tougher. what I would really like is this: 1 military unit for the first happy face, 2 for the second etc, instead of the extra unhappiness, but I don't know how to code that.

as for the Russian winter effect, yes I've always wanted some representation of how hard it was to move armies around back then, but I'm afraid it will make the AI turtle. I was thinking of using it on the "wilderness" provinces like the steppes and the sahara to keep the AI from wandering there.

and yes perhaps a new svn project is a good idea if we can't fix this commit problem.

 

[Leoreth]

Tyranny: I always found 1 happy face per military unit a bit easy, so I wanted there to be penalties. less culture seems appropriate. the extra unhappiness is just to make it a bit tougher. what I would really like is this: 1 military unit for the first happy face, 2 for the second etc, instead of the extra unhappiness, but I don't know how to code that.

This seems to be a good idea for this effect in general, because in RFC it's quite overpowered (more so than in BtS because more food makes it a lot more useful). I'll have a look at it soon.

 

[Tigranes]

I was just hoping Tyranny could have some economic effect as well -- Tyrants like Stalin and the first Chinese Emperor were able to build so much. 25% for buildings is not that much for that kind of government.

If XML allows decimal unhappiness numbers I suggest you to make it so that each Military unit makes one person happy and 0.49 persons unhappy. BTS always rounds down integer numbers to the closest integer. So with 1 unit we will have 1 and zero , with 2 we will have 2 happy and 1 mad ("Away with the Police State!"), with 3 -- 3 and 1 etc...

Silk road can be an indestructible paved road (railroad) which looks like regular road and have the effect of regular road, except that one cannot pillage it. I have a feeling that empty plot pillage bug has to do with that no road pillaging rule.

I know that you have started this mod few months ago and making a rapid progress and this version is not even alpha, but there are certain graphical bugs that distruct you way more than the un-codded UPs. Red circles on the cities, no effects from Corporations (except for Cloth Merchants) and Pillage bug remind about themselves every single turn.

 

[srpt]

I think I may have fixed the svn. all my changes are committed now so don't bother with that extra art I uploaded.

red circles on the cities? still there now?

tyranny is meant as an early game civic that you get out of as soon as you have enough luxuries or temples. I thought of the decimal idea ages ago but it doesn't work. hopefully Leoreth will code the diminishing returns thing, that would be perfect. I still think the culture nerf is appropriate and not too crippling. it makes for an interesting choice for Egypt, going for population and culture.

I haven't had time to change the pillage thing. I will do it later today, promise.

corporations allow you to build their building, which mostly give +% gold per resource. further effects could be added.

and yes, I wish I had more time... on the plus side there's some new leaderheads, diplomacy music and units in this commit.

 

[srpt]

@ Tigranes: theres a new leaderhead for your namesake, but don't freak out if you don't like it. I want to eventually find something we all like, so if you have any suggestions please suggest them.

and yes the unpillageable roads was causing the pillage bug. they're both gone for now.

 

[rrosen]

I tried the Nubians in revision 322 (their starting text is mixed up with Celts). Their unique power is very good, especially given their low tech and relative isolation. The first UHV (iron working and alphabet by 150 BC) is certainly a race, but not that tight as I managed it the first time (exactly in 150 BC). Conquest of Egypt was necessary in the end, just to get gold plunder to sustain maximum research, but they would be needed to be conquered for the gold anyway. After winning the first UHV, it got too late to continue. But 6 gold are very easily available (2 in Egypt, 1 in Meroe, 1 in Axum and 1 in Bubastis. The least one can be found down to the south (~Tanzania). I was also already the most productive by 150 BC, so ending the game would be a matter of pressing end of turn.

Wikipedia: "Many pyramids were built in Meroë during this period and the kingdom consisted of an impressive standing military force. Strabo also describes a clash with the Romans in which the Romans were defeated by Nubian archers under the leadership of a "one-eyed" (blind in one eye) queen.[31]". How about, instead of production, having a goal "capture one Roman city"?

One additional suggestion in general: Would it be possible to implement slavery from war? The idea is that you stand a certain chance of gaining a slave unit each time an enemy unit is defeated or a city is captured. That slave could either be used as a worker, join a city as a citizen, perhaps join a city as a special building (e.g. +1 production), or be sacrificed on a tile to produce a good improvement (e.g. Latefundia). The Latefundia and the special buildings could have built in time decay, to represent the absorption of slaves into society.

How possible would these things be to code? I imagine the time-decay and the sacrifice for improvement changes could be hard to implement. But introducing slavery could have several advantages:
1) Slavery was an important part of ancient economy, currently only represented as the slavery civic.
2) If slaves could be traded via the diplomacy screen, more interesting opportunities for trade could open up.
3) UHVs related to slavery could be implemented (or even to freeing of slaves!).

 

[Tigranes]

Slavery is a very interesting idea. In general I hope that eventually this mod will come up with some original mechanics, like Crusades in RFCE, Silk Road in RFCA or Relics in SoI. Bar is so high now that we all expect more from the RFC modmods

 

[srpt]

slave merchants could be a corporation

I'd like the silk road to be important so some kind of extra there would be cool

about the Nubians, I raised the cost of Iron Working and Alphabet slightly and moved the production goal to 100BC

 

[Tigranes]

By mechanics I mean something more dynamic... Like ability to enslave defeated units and gain slaves via conquest of cities and pillaging of towns. Slave units could work in the fields or be "used" (sacrificed) in cities boosting building production. will represent sacrificing your own citizens, like for the Great Wall.

 

[rrosen]

That's a very nice idea which could enable you to jump-start new cities and get wonders that otherwise would be impossible to build.

 

[srpt]

this is what I mean about mines on resourceless hills in this mod. does this look right to anyone? Sudan/Ethiopia in 14AD? I just don't think this kind of land should be that productive.

 

[Leoreth]

On the diminishing returns effect for Tyranny. If you want every extra happiness point to require an additional unit, you can achieve that by awarding floor(sqrt(2u+0.25)-0.5) happiness, if u is the number of military units.

Spoiler :

Yes, I was bored and did some math. I could reproduce the calculation if you're interested, it involves the Gaussian sum formula and applying the binomial theorem

The relevant method is CvCity::getMilitaryHappiness(), you'd simply have to replace the getMilitaryHappinessUnits() term with the one I mentioned above and set u = getMilitaryHappinessUnits().

 

[srpt]

sweet! math is awesome! it'll be in as soon as I have it working. this is exactly what I've always wanted to be able to do with this civic. thank you!

 

[Leoreth]

I hope it works

 

[srpt]

well I tried this:

Spoiler :

int CvCity::getMilitaryHappiness() const
{
	int i;
	i = getMilitaryHappinessUnits();
	return (floor(sqrt(2i+0.25)-0.5) * GET_PLAYER(getOwnerINLINE()).getHappyPerMilitaryUnit());
}

but I got this:

Spoiler :

1>CvCity.cpp(6294) : error C2059: syntax error : 'bad suffix on number'
1>CvCity.cpp(6294) : error C2146: syntax error : missing ')' before identifier 'i'
1>CvCity.cpp(6294) : error C2668: 'sqrt' : ambiguous call to overloaded function

 

[patkog]

Just write * between 2 and i

floor(sqrt((2*i)+0.25)-0.5) * ...

C++ doesn't calculate without the mathematical symbols

 

[srpt]

thank you!

it works now: 1 unit for the first happy face, 2 for the 2nd etc.

 

[srpt]

the tech tree has been changed. its more or less where I want it now. the tech chooser screen still needs to be fininshed, but it works anyway.

 

[Tigranes]

Massacre the disbelievers option does not remove any religion and seem to have no effect upon the city capture...

 

[AdrienIer]

this is what I mean about mines on resourceless hills in this mod. does this look right to anyone? Sudan/Ethiopia in 14AD? I just don't think this kind of land should be that productive.

Well, how much hammers can those cities actually use ? Because the area is so food-poor that it's quite possible that they don't have enough food to work all the productive tiles, making them have to choose between gold and hammers.