mluo2010
Chieftain
I just loaded a Sassanid start from 320 BC and I couldn't build mines at all - it said I needed mining tech.
*I have the latest SVN version btw.
*I have the latest SVN version btw.
RFC Classical World
- Thread starter srpt
- Start date
sorry about the mines, I will fix that when I get home (about 2 hours from now). I eliminated the mining tech so mines should require no tech. I you're impatient just look in Civ4BuildInfos (which is in the XML/Units folder) and changed the TechPrereq for mines to "NONE".
about the massacre the disbelievers: it came from SoI where everyone has a State Religion. in this mod I don't think it should be an option if you don't have a state religion, which is the case for most civs in the 1st half of the timeline. I have just been ignoring the option but I guess its time to adapt it better to this mod. I'll see what I can do tonight. I'd also like to add an option to enslave part or all of the city: get a free worker and keep the city, losing 2 population or something, or raze it and get more workers.
about the massacre the disbelievers: it came from SoI where everyone has a State Religion. in this mod I don't think it should be an option if you don't have a state religion, which is the case for most civs in the 1st half of the timeline. I have just been ignoring the option but I guess its time to adapt it better to this mod. I'll see what I can do tonight. I'd also like to add an option to enslave part or all of the city: get a free worker and keep the city, losing 2 population or something, or raze it and get more workers.
mluo2010
Chieftain
-For the Parthian UHV: The palace + heroic epic doesn't seem close to possible right now. You need priesthood + literature to build the HE. Armenia is very willing to trade priesthood, and you're going to have to get lit with a great artist from a Zoroastrian temple because you're sure not going to be teching with a huge army + empire. With optimal play, you could probably barely get literature squeezed in before the deadline. But then there's no time left to actually build the HE, and you have no way of getting a GE also. Ctesiphon's production is also terrible before you get the iron with the first border pop.
-A minor nitpick - Xian wasn't the name of the city until the Ming dynasty. It became Changan during the Han dynasty and remained so until the 1300s except for a few periods. I probably could also work on the China city name maps.
-Are you planning to change the Chinese provinces? I see you used the boundaries of the Warring States, but there are a bunch of other provincial divisions used by other periods of Chinese history that could solve the problem of Han and Wei being so small. I'll take a look at the maps and see if I can come up with something.
Loving this mod so far - can't wait for it to finish. Let me know if there's anything in particular that needs playtested - that's probably the best way for me to contribute.
-A minor nitpick - Xian wasn't the name of the city until the Ming dynasty. It became Changan during the Han dynasty and remained so until the 1300s except for a few periods. I probably could also work on the China city name maps.
-Are you planning to change the Chinese provinces? I see you used the boundaries of the Warring States, but there are a bunch of other provincial divisions used by other periods of Chinese history that could solve the problem of Han and Wei being so small. I'll take a look at the maps and see if I can come up with something.
Loving this mod so far - can't wait for it to finish. Let me know if there's anything in particular that needs playtested - that's probably the best way for me to contribute.
thanks for the interest and feedback.
Parthian UHV: I never tested it so thanks for being the first. I would have just gone with a palace but I wanted to differentiate their goal and the Bactrians (build a palace in India) and Heroic Epic seemed appropriate. the artist from the Zoroastrian Temple to bulb Literature is a great idea. don't you eventually get an Engineer from the Hanging Gardens in Babylon? there's also no particular reason for the deadline to be 50BC, so it could be later. the Parthians lasted right up to the Sassanid takeover so its actually a bit weird they don't have an endurance goal of some kind. maybe that would be better than trying to kill Roman units. I'm worried about having to occasionally go all the way to Italy to find them, which would be silly. anyway I'm open to ideas about this.
will change Xian to Changan. I'd love to have someone improve the Chinese city map. If you give me an email I can share the google doc with you.
for the Chinese provinces all I could find were the modern provinces, which are mostly too small, and the warring states, which at least were old and more or less the right size. I'm open to suggestions.
as far as testing goes, I'm focused on the 1st half, basically everything up the Kushans. the Kushan starts have been highly varied, everything from most civs collapsed to 3 huge armies (Parthian, Han and Satavahana) right on my borders at spawn and at war. in general the Parthians need to be more aggressive towards Mesopotamia and the Romans need to be a bit more consistent. also the Celts seem to need more nerfing. I'd really like AI Rome and Parthia to meet up in the middle east in most games.
I may actually just make a mechanism that gives independent cities in appropriate areas to imperial civs at randomly determined intervals. this happened quite a bit at the time, many mediterranean city-states were at times happy to place themselves under the protection of Rome or another power, and there's nothing more annoying than powerful AIs that just refuse to take that great city on their doorstep, in their historical area.
as far as early UHVs are concerned, I think Egypt, the Seleucids, Rome, Mauryans, Qin, Armenia and Han are quite solid, all doable and fun (I think). the Han need the tech goal (Paper) to be more challenging, so I'll probably change it from a race to a deadline (or both). the other civs are more up in the air. I'd like to think of something more compelling for Carthage, still looking for a good third goal for Judea, no idea how the Satavahanas goal of spreading religion to SE Asia when there are barely any civs there will work out etc.
no there probably isn't enough food to work those mines. that's why my change doesn't actually change the balance that much. taking the food to work the tiles into account it probably doesn't make more than 3 or 4 hammers difference in any city site, with a few exceptions. still thinking about this but leaving it your guys' way for now.
Parthian UHV: I never tested it so thanks for being the first. I would have just gone with a palace but I wanted to differentiate their goal and the Bactrians (build a palace in India) and Heroic Epic seemed appropriate. the artist from the Zoroastrian Temple to bulb Literature is a great idea. don't you eventually get an Engineer from the Hanging Gardens in Babylon? there's also no particular reason for the deadline to be 50BC, so it could be later. the Parthians lasted right up to the Sassanid takeover so its actually a bit weird they don't have an endurance goal of some kind. maybe that would be better than trying to kill Roman units. I'm worried about having to occasionally go all the way to Italy to find them, which would be silly. anyway I'm open to ideas about this.
will change Xian to Changan. I'd love to have someone improve the Chinese city map. If you give me an email I can share the google doc with you.
for the Chinese provinces all I could find were the modern provinces, which are mostly too small, and the warring states, which at least were old and more or less the right size. I'm open to suggestions.
as far as testing goes, I'm focused on the 1st half, basically everything up the Kushans. the Kushan starts have been highly varied, everything from most civs collapsed to 3 huge armies (Parthian, Han and Satavahana) right on my borders at spawn and at war. in general the Parthians need to be more aggressive towards Mesopotamia and the Romans need to be a bit more consistent. also the Celts seem to need more nerfing. I'd really like AI Rome and Parthia to meet up in the middle east in most games.
I may actually just make a mechanism that gives independent cities in appropriate areas to imperial civs at randomly determined intervals. this happened quite a bit at the time, many mediterranean city-states were at times happy to place themselves under the protection of Rome or another power, and there's nothing more annoying than powerful AIs that just refuse to take that great city on their doorstep, in their historical area.
as far as early UHVs are concerned, I think Egypt, the Seleucids, Rome, Mauryans, Qin, Armenia and Han are quite solid, all doable and fun (I think). the Han need the tech goal (Paper) to be more challenging, so I'll probably change it from a race to a deadline (or both). the other civs are more up in the air. I'd like to think of something more compelling for Carthage, still looking for a good third goal for Judea, no idea how the Satavahanas goal of spreading religion to SE Asia when there are barely any civs there will work out etc.
no there probably isn't enough food to work those mines. that's why my change doesn't actually change the balance that much. taking the food to work the tiles into account it probably doesn't make more than 3 or 4 hammers difference in any city site, with a few exceptions. still thinking about this but leaving it your guys' way for now.
mluo2010
Chieftain
You would get the GE eventually, but it'd take half the mod because you only get 1 point per turn, and you're going to get the artist first so you'll need 300 total points for the engineer.
In pretty much every game I've played, Rome gets Greece, Egypt, and the Levant, so you'd think having them fight the Parthians wouldn't be that big of a problem. You could always have conquerors spawn for them fighting the Parthians too to represent Crassus, but then the UHV would be pretty easy for a human Parthia, just declare and slaughter the stack with UUs. I'm also not sure how good an endurance goal would be - you're not really ever threatened by too much. The UU will kill everything in its era, and the core Persian cities have enough production to crank out enough to deal with barbs.
During the Han dynasty, basically the area around the two capitals, Changan and Luoyang, was one province - Sili. Essentially you'd merge Han and Wei, and give some of the southern parts to Shu and Ba. Actually, the Han dynasty provinces probably would be a better base to use - they were in place more or less up until Tang. (People familiar with the history of the Three Kingdoms period will be familiar with these provinces.) They're also based on divisions that go back to the Xia and Shang periods, so they wouldn't even be anachronistic for the pre-Han period, which isn't that long in this mod. The eastern ones would probably have to be merged a bit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Han_provinces.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_administrative_divisions_of_China
In pretty much every game I've played, Rome gets Greece, Egypt, and the Levant, so you'd think having them fight the Parthians wouldn't be that big of a problem. You could always have conquerors spawn for them fighting the Parthians too to represent Crassus, but then the UHV would be pretty easy for a human Parthia, just declare and slaughter the stack with UUs. I'm also not sure how good an endurance goal would be - you're not really ever threatened by too much. The UU will kill everything in its era, and the core Persian cities have enough production to crank out enough to deal with barbs.
During the Han dynasty, basically the area around the two capitals, Changan and Luoyang, was one province - Sili. Essentially you'd merge Han and Wei, and give some of the southern parts to Shu and Ba. Actually, the Han dynasty provinces probably would be a better base to use - they were in place more or less up until Tang. (People familiar with the history of the Three Kingdoms period will be familiar with these provinces.) They're also based on divisions that go back to the Xia and Shang periods, so they wouldn't even be anachronistic for the pre-Han period, which isn't that long in this mod. The eastern ones would probably have to be merged a bit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Han_provinces.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_administrative_divisions_of_China
well then without the Engineer you could just extend the deadline and it can become somewhat of an endurance goal. were you able to bulb all of Literature at once?
the Parthians are one of the military/conqueror civs. whats their wildest ambition? Egypt, Greece, northern India and everything in between? why not?
the Parthians are one of the military/conqueror civs. whats their wildest ambition? Egypt, Greece, northern India and everything in between? why not?
I had given that goal to the Sassanids, but perhaps it makes more sense for the Parthians. the Sassanids are also more suited to cultural and religious goals, esp vs Islam and the Arabs.
added this: Rome will flip indy or barb cities only in Sicily or Southern Gaul when they spawn.
added this: Rome will flip indy or barb cities only in Sicily or Southern Gaul when they spawn.
Tigranes
Armenian
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2008
- Messages
- 10,410
You never commented on rrosen's idea about trade-able slaves. Basically slaves were important in Classical World and can be represented by Slave unit. Very special unit. You can buy 'em and sell them, you could sacrifice them, enslave them, make them work with the field in half of the worker's rate. I even thought it would be cool to settle them in a city as a "settled" citizen (kinda like RFCE++ Crimea's UP idea)! Settled slaves produce 1 hummer and may replace production from mines if you disallow mining hills. Slaves can become very special and unique RFC Classical World feature.
Also what happened to the arrows in F6 screen? Techs are not connected to each other anymore!
merijn_v1
Black Belt
PIE's Ancient Europe has a nice slave mechanic. This is copied from the PIE AE concepts:
Spoiler :
Wessel V1
Emperor
The new leaderheads look very nice.
I get a CtD though when I try to select the Han. I think some path is bugged.
EDIT: in addition to what Tigranes said, it seems all early tech benefits are gone. For example, river crossing now takes the movement penalty into account. Fish can't even be revealed. I'm going to revert a few versions to give some more stable feedback.
I get a CtD though when I try to select the Han. I think some path is bugged. EDIT: in addition to what Tigranes said, it seems all early tech benefits are gone. For example, river crossing now takes the movement penalty into account. Fish can't even be revealed. I'm going to revert a few versions to give some more stable feedback.
sorry about those techs. most of the errors should be fixed now.
I don't get a crash choosing the Han. do you see which leader it is before it crashes? it should be Wu not Deng Sui.
I've quite busy lately so sorry about the lack of progress. I plan to do a bunch of work tomorrow.
I don't get a crash choosing the Han. do you see which leader it is before it crashes? it should be Wu not Deng Sui.
I've quite busy lately so sorry about the lack of progress. I plan to do a bunch of work tomorrow.
Wessel V1
Emperor
It crashes just when I pick the Han, so I can't see which leaderhead it is. In the civilopedia the Wu entry is empty, so I assume it's Wu who (no pun intended) causes trouble. This is revision 334 by the way.
Wessel V1
Emperor
Early buildings are now constructable again, thanks. However, 'hidden' advantages like the ability to work water tiles (Fishing) and to cross rivers without a movement penalty (Construction) are still disabled.
However, 'hidden' advantages like the ability to work water tiles (Fishing) and to cross rivers without a movement penalty (Construction) are still disabled.added some new slavery features. I'd like to do more, but I started with easy stuff I knew I could pull off:
if you are in the Slavery civic you have a 20% chance of enslaving land units defeated in combat.
the gives you a slave unit which is a worker with 50% work speed and mini versions of the Great Merchant and Great Engineer abilities: in your own cities you can use them to hurry buildings and in other civs cities you can sell them.
I'd like to make those abilities also contingent on the slavery civic as well but I need to learn how to do that.
one thing I am wondering is whether whipping should now be eliminated since the Slavery civic has these new abilities.
if you are in the Slavery civic you have a 20% chance of enslaving land units defeated in combat.
the gives you a slave unit which is a worker with 50% work speed and mini versions of the Great Merchant and Great Engineer abilities: in your own cities you can use them to hurry buildings and in other civs cities you can sell them.
I'd like to make those abilities also contingent on the slavery civic as well but I need to learn how to do that.
one thing I am wondering is whether whipping should now be eliminated since the Slavery civic has these new abilities.
Tigranes
Armenian
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2008
- Messages
- 10,410
It always bugged me that one can capture a Worker/Settler and he will work with the same enthusiasm as your own "trained" worker. Perhaps any worker we capture can become a Slave with 100% probability. Workers should require upkeep while Slaves need to be free of upkeep in F2 screen....
Slaves must have some probability of turning into Barbarian Rebel Slaves) with
4, like Barbarian Peasants in SoI ("Slave revolt" depending on Stability and Civics). One of them can become a Great General (Spartacus event)...3 gold for a slave is a little ... too little
50 hummers sound about right. If you recapture your own slave it could become a free Worker.
Perhaps all Slavery Civs could start with couple of free Slaves from the start (in addition to free workers).
Do you think settling them in cities (as citizen specialist) would be too much?
And finally how AI would handle them I wonder....
Wessel V1
Emperor
Just did a Celtic game (revision 336, so no Slavery updates installed), finally got everything right for the UHV. The trick seemed to be to take Massilia in stead of Burdigala, so it won't flip to Rome. It also seems important to have as many troops stationed on the hills near Massilia as possible, so the Roman stack won't attack. Because you can see what's inside Mediolanum you can time your assault rather precisely. The stack will just wander east, so make sure it's far enough to take Mediolanum, Rome and if needed Tarentum. The Romans tend to build a city in Illyricum too so just wait for them to collapse and take the city. Don't be too late to attack though, if the Romans take the Greek Rebel cities it might give them enough stability to compensate the loss of Italy. Segovia in Iberia has become a very good place to settle too. The first 50 turns are the key towards victory. After that you need to be sure the Settlers arrive in time. Barbarians were keeping the game interesting, and fun too because Woodsman 3 Guerilla 2 Celtic Warriors are awesome to hunt them in Germania.
I see improvements don't remove woodlands anymore. Maybe farms still should? When towns are fully grown a city usually needs some farms to compensate the lost food, but farms with woodlands look a little strange. This would also make tiles without forest a little more equal, you'd farm those and build cottages on the others. I'd also make the plains hill improvable. It's a big investment to grow those tiles to towns, so in contradiction to what I said previously I think a town on a plains hill is not a major concern.
I found a small bug that might not be related to this mod but to Civ in general: whereas Walls get removed upon city conquest, when I conquered Ephesus had a Dun in it. The Temple of Artemis is a nice wonder by the way, I should consider taking it in every game I can.
I see improvements don't remove woodlands anymore. Maybe farms still should? When towns are fully grown a city usually needs some farms to compensate the lost food, but farms with woodlands look a little strange. This would also make tiles without forest a little more equal, you'd farm those and build cottages on the others. I'd also make the plains hill improvable. It's a big investment to grow those tiles to towns, so in contradiction to what I said previously I think a town on a plains hill is not a major concern.
I found a small bug that might not be related to this mod but to Civ in general: whereas Walls get removed upon city conquest, when I conquered Ephesus had a Dun in it. The Temple of Artemis is a nice wonder by the way, I should consider taking it in every game I can.
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