RFC Europe -Art and Flags Thread

[embryodead]

Yeah I don't have C4Col and the one on my preview is from Thomas' War actually, it seems it's been modified already to look more Italian. Simone Boccanegra didn't wear facial hair so I think that one is better As far as legal issues go, most mods I've seen, RFCE included, already use C4Col artwork so I doubt it's a problem for Firaxis.

 

[micbic]

Here is a composed list of LHs for use and timing. Notes:
1) AFAIK the Henry VIII and Clovis LHs are under construction or planning.
2) I also dont know what part would Clovis play, since Burgundy will (?) be moved later, and such noone will meet him.
3) Basically, this one is to get coded just after beta 1.0

The List
France: Clovis (500-700) (?)---> Charlemagne (500/700-1400)---> Louis XIV (1400-1800)
Burgundy: Phillip the Bold
Byzantium: Justinian (500-850) ---> Basil II (850-1800)
Arabia: Saladin
Bulgaria: Simeon
Venice: Enrico Dandolo
Cordoba: Abd-Ar-Rahman
Kyiv: Yaroslavl the Wise
Hungary: Istvan I
Poland: Kazmierz III
Germany: Frederick
Spain: El Cid (909-1400) ---> Isabella (1400-1800)
Norse: Harald Hardrada (780-1520) ---> Christian VI (1520-1800)
Moscow: Ivan IV (1320-1620) ---> Peter (1620-1720) ---> Catherine (1720-1800)
Genoa: Simone Boccanegra
England: Henry VIII (1066-1550) ---> Elizabeth (1550-1800)
Portugal: Joao II
Turkey: Mehmed II (1300-1500) ---> Suleiman I (1500-1800)
Dutch: Willem van Oranje
Sweden: Gustav Vasa

 

[3Miro]

One note for everyone, the mod is quickly growing in size and leaderheads is by far the largest reason. Leaderheads already available in BtS are not a problem (since everyoen already has those), however, custom leaderheads do cost us.

Extra note, if someone knows how to make leaderheads:
Currently Simeon uses graphics made for Basil II, if someone knows how, we can change Basil's graphics to get unique graphics for Simeon and then use Basil's graphics for Basil.

 

[BurnEmDown]

I think no more than 2 LHs per civ should be the limit, to avoid too many new LHs which will just take up space.

 

[jessiecat]

I agree. Just 2 for each if possible. A couple of suggestions for micbic's list.

France . Charlemagne > Louis XIV

Arabia. Abu Bakr > Saladin

England William I > Elizabeth I

Moscow. Ivan IV > Peter I

Cordoba. Abd ar Rahman III > Al Mansur (use Idris graphics below)

Portugal. Joao II > Henry the Navigator

Burgundy. William the Justiciar > Philip the Bold (use Francis I graphics for William)

 

[Cethegus]

If William I doesn't have art available, cfkane's Macbeth could be given a try. Anyone with enough time could improve his crown.

 

[merijn_v1]

I found this in Rise of Mankind for the Xebec unit.

 

[merijn_v1]

And some art for the leaderheads.

1. Alfonso (Portugal)
2. Basil (Byzantine)
3. Charles V (alternetive)
4. Henry VIII (England)
5. Jean d'Arc (France)
6. Richelieu (France)

 

[Flying Pig]

I love Cardinal Richlieu!

As an aside, I'm working on a Walrus resource - watch this space

 

[Michael Vick]

And some art for the leaderheads.

1. Alfonso (Portugal)
2. Basil (Byzantine)
3. Charles V (alternetive)
4. Henry VIII (England)
5. Jean d'Arc (France)
6. Richelieu (France)

1. Alfonso is good, that pretty much solves it for Portugal.
2. You have to admit, Basil still looks very Incan. When players see this it will give the mod that "homemade" feel if you know what I'm talking about.
3. We already have a much better Charles V, and if Spain was going to get a second leaderhead, I'd opt for Phillip II, who we also have a good leaderhead for.
4. Why not? Although I'd like to see more leaderheads that didn't all come from the "King of Spain" character in Colonization, we already 2 civs in RFCEurope that use his face.
6. Wasn't he just Louis XIV's advisor while he was growing up? If we could get art of him holding a small child then he would do very well for 1638 to 1642.

 

[Michael Vick]

Here is a composed list of LHs for use and timing. Notes:
1) AFAIK the Henry VIII and Clovis LHs are under construction or planning.
2) I also dont know what part would Clovis play, since Burgundy will (?) be moved later, and such noone will meet him.
3) Basically, this one is to get coded just after beta 1.0

The List
France: Clovis (500-700) (?)---> Charlemagne (500/700-1400)---> Louis XIV (1400-1800)
Burgundy: Phillip the Bold
Byzantium: Justinian (500-850) ---> Basil II (850-1800)
Arabia: Saladin
Bulgaria: Simeon
Venice: Enrico Dandolo
Cordoba: Abd-Ar-Rahman
Kyiv: Yaroslavl the Wise
Hungary: Istvan I
Poland: Kazmierz III
Germany: Frederick
Spain: El Cid (909-1400) ---> Isabella (1400-1800)
Norse: Harald Hardrada (780-1520) ---> Christian VI (1520-1800)
Moscow: Ivan IV (1320-1620) ---> Peter (1620-1720) ---> Catherine (1720-1800)
Genoa: Simone Boccanegra
England: Henry VIII (1066-1550) ---> Elizabeth (1550-1800)
Portugal: Joao II
Turkey: Mehmed II (1300-1500) ---> Suleiman I (1500-1800)
Dutch: Willem van Oranje
Sweden: Gustav Vasa

The Revised, s3xier List
France: Clovis (500-700) (?)---> Charlemagne (500/700-1400)---> Louis XIV (1400-1800)
Burgundy: Phillippe II de Bourgogne
Byzantium: Justinian (500-850) ---> Basil II (850-squashed by Ottomans) ---> Respawn as Greece: Ioannis Kapodistrias (respawn-1800)
Arabia: Abu Bakr (632-1174) ---> Saladin (1174-1800)
Bulgaria: Simeon
Venice: Enrico Dandolo
Cordoba: Abd-Ar-Rahman
Kyiv: Yaroslavl the Wise
Hungary: Istvan I
Poland: Kazmierz III
Prussia: Freiderich
Spain: Isabela (909-1554) ---> Felipe II (1554-1800)
Norse: Harald Hardrada (780-1520) ---> Christian VI (1520-1800)
Moscow: Ivan IV (1320-1620) ---> Peter (1620-1720) ---> Catherine (1720-1800)
Genoa: Simone Boccanegra
England: Henry VIII (1066-1550) ---> Elizabeth (1550-1800)
Portugal: Alfonso (1139-1485) ---> Joao II (1485-1800)
Turkey: Mehmed II (1300-1500) ---> Suleiman I (1500-1800)
Dutch: Willem van Oranje
Sweden: Gustav Vasa



If a leader's art is already in Civ IV then we can add extra leaderheads to that civ right? for example, France can have three?

 

[merijn_v1]

1. Alfonso is good, that pretty much solves it for Portugal.
2. You have to admit, Basil still looks very Incan. When players see this it will give the mod that "homemade" feel if you know what I'm talking about.
3. We already have a much better Charles V, and if Spain was going to get a second leaderhead, I'd opt for Phillip II, who we also have a good leaderhead for.
4. Why not? Although I'd like to see more leaderheads that didn't all come from the "King of Spain" character in Colonization, we already 2 civs in RFCEurope that use his face.
6. Wasn't he just Louis XIV's advisor while he was growing up? If we could get art of him holding a small child then he would do very well for 1638 to 1642.

I just post some LHs of Rise of Mankind who I thought we could use.
2. You're right. But in RoM it is used for him.
3. Same. But maybe for an other LH.
4. What do you exactly mean by this?
6. No. He was chief minister of Louis XIII.

 

[Flying Pig]

I think Basil looks good, actually.

 

[embryodead]

I like Michael Vick's list the most, especially since it discards some non-optimal heads and puts Mehmed back to Turkey (I assume Indris would become Abd-al-Rahman)

What's up with Gustav Vasa though? There's a good Vasa LH (pic below, don't remember the author, I just switched the BG) but RFCE is currently using Gustavus Adolphus. I guess both could be used (Vasa up to 1617, then Gustavus).

Also if Clovis is to be available, how about leaving France with 2 heads, and putting Charlemagne (as Otto I) to Germany? Maybe it's just me but I can't stand Frederick as German leader throughout the middle ages. That LH looks like Otto anyway, minus the beard which can be removed (I can probably do it).

@Merijn_v1/Vick, that Incan Basil II in RoM is an outdated version, below is a more recent one that looks much more Byzantine (both heads are in downloads database).

 

[micbic]

Revision 4:

France: Charlemagne (500-1400)---> Louis XIV (1400-1800)
Burgundy: Phillippe II de Bourgogne, using Richelieu's LH
Byzantium: Justinian (500-850) ---> Basil II (850-1800)
Arabia: Abu Bakr (632-1174) ---> Saladin (1174-1800)
Bulgaria: Simeon
Venice: Enrico Dandolo
Cordoba: Abd-Ar-Rahman (I didnt find any LHs for Al Mansur)
Kyiv: Yaroslavl the Wise
Hungary: Istvan I
Poland: Kazmierz III
HRE: Freiderich
Spain:Isabela (909-1540) ---> Charles V(1540-1800), using the Burgundian LH, actually depicting...him.
Norse: Harald Hardrada (780-1520) ---> Christian IV (not VI, stupid me ) (1520-1800)
Moscow: Ivan IV (1320-1620) ---> Peter (1620-1720) ---> Catherine (1720-1800)
Genoa: Simone Boccanegra
England: William I (1066-1550) ---> Elizabeth (1400-1650)---> O. Cromwell (1650-1800)
Portugal: Alfonso (1139-1485) ---> Joao II (1485-1800)
Turkey: Mehmed II (1300-1500) ---> Suleiman I (1500-1800)
Dutch: Willem van Oranje
Sweden: Gustav Vasa

On a sidenote: Can a leader be coded to appear under certain conditions? (ie Louis XIV when France gets united)?

 

[Michael Vick]

As the Spaniard I'd like to point out that El Cid was a mercenary that might just as well have been a hero to the Muslim side, he never led Spain in any sense, I think Isabela is good enough to represent Spain during all of the the reconquista years, if we're getting three Spanish leaderheads then Carlos V is by far the next most important man to consider.

Spain: Isabela (909-1516) ---> Carlos V (1516-1556) ---> Felipe II (1556-1800)

 

[micbic]

As far as I agree with Cid (Great General is okay for him IMHO), I would favor Carlos over Felipe:
Carlos managed to create a huge empire by royal marriages, having unified Iberia, Benelux and Holy Roman Empire (he was a Holy Roman Emperor IIRC)
Felipe, on the other hand, managed to sink somewhere like 150 ships in the France/England Strait.
As a Spaniard, could you explain me better why was Felipe so important?

(BTW good luck at the Eurobasket final, you deserved to win us )

 

[jessiecat]

As far as I agree with Cid (Great General is okay for him IMHO), I would favor Carlos over Felipe:
Carlos managed to create a huge empire by royal marriages, having unified Iberia, Benelux and Holy Roman Empire (he was a Holy Roman Emperor IIRC)
Felipe, on the other hand, managed to sink somewhere like 150 ships in the France/England Strait.
As a Spaniard, could you explain me better why was Felipe so important?

(BTW good luck at the Eurobasket final, you deserved to win us )

I don't know why you keep suggesting 3 leaderheads per civ. It's just not going to happen, as 3Miro has already explained. If you missed post 125 I've already made suggested additions to your list based on 2 per civ. Like William I starting England. Like Al Mansur succeeding Abd ar Rahman. And I provided all the art. Did you miss that post?

 

[micbic]

Basically, I think that some civs having 3 LHs deserve it, while some others can just do with 1, so the average keeps around 2. And I do not think that 6MB per LH is so much that it must be a barrier (I dont mean that any civ should have 10 LHs, but some civs deserve 3 for a bit of diversity across the many important historical figures)
Revised list at post 135. Two civs have 3 LHs, a bunch of them 2 and many more have 1.

 

[Panopticon]

The problem isn't entirely about the size of the leaderhead in the download. Every extra leaderhead also increases the memory that Civ IV needs to use for processing art. That means each custom leaderhead adds to the load time, end of turn wait time and diplomacy loading time. Plus, many custom leaderheads are poorly optimised and so take up more time than original ones. There was a recent study that showed that a plurality of processing time is spent on art of various sorts.