RFC Europe -Art and Flags Thread

[embryodead]

Can someone please explain to me what Christian VI is doing on the list...?

Probably a typo, as the leaderhead is Christian IV In such case I don't see anything wrong with him.

 

[micbic]

New list for LHs; sorry if it has become tiring, this time have also added hyperlinks (thx Cethegus! )

Revision n(where n an integer):

France: Charlemagne (500-1400)---> Louis XIV (1400-1800)
Burgundy: Phillipe II de Bourgogne (using Richelieu's LH)
Byzantium: Justinian (500-850) ---> Basil II (850-1800)
Arabia: Abu Bakr (632-1050) ---> Saladin (1050-1800)
Bulgaria: Simeon
Venice: Enrico Dandolo
Cordoba: Abd-Ar-Rahman
Kyiv: Yaroslavl the Wise
Hungary: Istvan I
Poland: Kazmierz III
HRE: Freiderich Barbarossa *yay second leader* (940-1430) ---> Friedrich the Prussian (1430-1800)
Spain:Isabela (909-1540) ---> Charles V(1540-1800), using the Burgundian LH, actually depicting...him.
Norse: Harald Hardrada (780-1520) ---> Christian IV (1520-1800)
Moscow: Ivan IV (1320-1620) ---> Peter (1620-1720) ---> Catherine (1720-1800)
Genoa: Simone Boccanegra
England: William I (1066-1550) ---> Elizabeth (1400-1650)---> O. Cromwell (1650-1800)
Portugal: Joao II
Turkey: Mehmed II (1300-1500) ---> Suleiman I (1500-1800)
Dutch: Willem van Oranje
Sweden: Gustav Vasa

 

[jessiecat]

What I'd suggest for Cordoba as a 2nd. LH is Abu Yusuf Yaqub (1259-1286), the most important leader of the Marinid dynasty who ruled North and West Africa and part of Al Andalus from his capitol at Marrakesh. The art below is for Idris II but would be OK for any Moroccan Berber leader, especially if Cordoba collapses and respawns in Morocco, as I think we're planning.
So it would go;

Abd-ar-Rahman III, 712-1260....>Abu Yusuf Yaqub, 1260-1800

 

[micbic]

Thanks for this one, so, after adding more appropriate landmarks for leader changing, the situation is:

Revision n(where n an integer):

France: Charlemagne (500-960)---> Louis XIV (960-1800)
Burgundy: Phillipe II de Bourgogne (using Richelieu's LH)
Byzantium: Justinian (500-868) ---> Basil II (868-1800)
Arabia: Abu Bakr (632-1170) ---> Saladin (1170-1800)
Bulgaria: Simeon
Venice: Enrico Dandolo
Cordoba: Abd-Ar-Rahman (716-1161) ---> Abu Yusuf Yaqub or whatever (1161-1800)
Kyiv: Yaroslavl the Wise
Hungary: Istvan I
Poland: Kazmierz III
HRE: Freiderich Barbarossa *yay second leader* (940-1524) ---> Friedrich the Prussian (1524-1800)
Spain:Isabela (909-1512) ---> Charles V(1512-1800), using the Burgundian LH, actually depicting...him.
Norse: Harald Hardrada (780-1522) ---> Christian IV (1522-1800)
Moscow: Ivan IV (1320-1598) ---> Peter (1598-1730) ---> Catherine (1730-1800)
Genoa: Simone Boccanegra
England: William I (1066-1336) ---> Elizabeth (1336-1604)---> O. Cromwell (1604-1800)
Portugal: Joao II
Turkey: Mehmed II (1300-1512) ---> Suleiman I (1512-1800)
Dutch: Willem van Oranje
Sweden: Gustav Vasa

 

[Verily]

I strongly dislike the idea of Oliver Cromwell being the English leader for the entire Early Modern period. Either have him for about fifty years and then switch to George I or something, or just keep Elizabeth on. I don't see why Elizabeth is a problem after 1604.

 

[embryodead]

If you're going to use Indris as 2nd leader for Cordoba, who is gonna be Abd-Al-Rahman? At the moment it's Mehmed II... and on the chart you've given him back to Turkey.

Indris II was posted twice in the last 2 pages as a suggestion for the LH representing Abd-Al-Rahman. I assumed that was the idea since you can't have Mehmed II for both

Also, once again, the current Swedish LH is Gustavus II aka Gustav Adolph, not Gustav Vasa. Two different people and two different leaderheads (I posted screenshot of Gustav Vasa here) Technically you can use both (Vasa up to 1617, then Adolph)

 

[jessiecat]

If you're going to use Indris as 2nd leader for Cordoba, who is gonna be Abd-Al-Rahman? At the moment it's Mehmed II... and on the chart you've given him back to Turkey.

Indris II was posted twice in the last 2 pages as a suggestion for the LH representing Abd-Al-Rahman. I assumed that was the idea since you can't have Mehmed II for both

Also, once again, the current Swedish LH is Gustavus II aka Gustav Adolph, not Gustav Vasa. Two different people and two different leaderheads (I posted screenshot of Gustav Vasa here) Technically you can use both (Vasa up to 1617, then Adolph)

For Abd-ar-Rahman. we could use this one if we changed the background to one of a cropped shot of La Mezquita and if somebody could fix his mustache a bit.

 

[micbic]

I strongly dislike the idea of Oliver Cromwell being the English leader for the entire Early Modern period. Either have him for about fifty years and then switch to George I or something, or just keep Elizabeth on. I don't see why Elizabeth is a problem after 1604.

Having a leader for just 50 years is overkill. So, if you agree, I propose dropping him.

 

[jessiecat]

Having a leader for just 50 years is overkill. So, if you agree, I propose dropping him.

Also, the change of leaderhead for Cordoba should be 1261 not 1161. (a typo?), and you left Austria off your list.
Anyway, here are 5 more leaderheads we might use. The link for the Afonso LH is closed but I'd suggest using the El Cid one for him. It's the right period and it looks good too.

Poland: Kazmierz III (970-1630)...> Jan III Sobieski (1630-1800)

Dutch: Willem Van Oranje (1580-1670)...> Johan de Witt (1670-1800)

Austria: Leopold I (1160-1700)...> Maria Theresa (1700-1800)

Hungary: Istvan I (900-1460)...> Mathinus Corvinus (1460-1800)

Portugal Afonso Henriques (1100- 1400)...> Joao I (1400-1800)

 

[micbic]

Wow! Thanks! (I also think of replacing Willem van Oranje with Maurits von Nassau, he played a bigger part in the Dutch history than Willem IMO, anyway we have Dutch guys here so they could tell us their opinion about that )
EDIT: Not a typo; used the date the Marinid Kingdom was founded. I hope you guys get the other landmarks, will add explanations if not.
EDIT 2: Willem van Oranje will be used for only 45 turns with that system. Overkill perhaps?

 

[jessiecat]

Wow! Thanks! (I also think of replacing Willem van Oranje with Maurits von Nassau, he played a bigger part in the Dutch history than Willem IMO, anyway we have Dutch guys here so they could tell us their opinion about that )
EDIT: Not a typo; used the date the Marinid Kingdom was founded. I hope you guys get the other landmarks, will add explanations if not.
EDIT 2: Willem van Oranje will be used for only 45 turns with that system. Overkill perhaps?

1. I beg to differ. The wiki article says the dvnasty began in 1215. I said 1260 because Abu Yusuf lived from that time and he was the most important of the Marinids, capturing Marrakesh from the Almohads in 1269 and uniting all the Maghreb under Marinid rule. Also, that way it divides the Cordoban period into 2 roughly equal halves.

2. Maybe we could extend Willem a bit further, maybe about 60 turns, the way we have extended so many of the others.

 

[micbic]

Cordoba: Would you be satisfied with a 1215 switch?
Netherlands: They would currently do with one leader, IMHO, since it barely does anything significant enough after 1670; Johan nevertheless dies before 1700.
Austria: Maria Theresa would be better for me to get in at 1740 (start of Austro-Prussian dualism), so she is a bit of debatable. Same for Cathy of Russia.
Sweden: Kinda same with Nederland, one leader atm. Karl XII would be good for me as a second later leader, given we have a LH of him/could resemble him.
Turkey: Would it be better to use Selim I's LH as Mehmed, and keep Mehmed as Abd-Rahman?
Portugal: Doesn't El Cid seem too Arab for a Portuguese leader?

So:

Revision n, nEN.

France: Charlemagne (500-987)---> Louis XIV (987-1800)
Burgundy: Phillipe II de Bourgogne
Byzantium: Justinian (500-868) ---> Basil II (868-1800)
Arabia: Abu Bakr (632-1170) ---> Saladin (1170-1800)
Bulgaria: Simeon
Venice: Enrico Dandolo
Cordoba: Abd-Ar-Rahman (716-1215) ---> Abu Yusuf Yaqub or whatever (1215-1800)
Kyiv: Yaroslavl the Wise
Hungary: Istvan I (900-1302) ---> Hunyadi Matyas (1302-1800)
Poland: Kazmierz III (969-1570) ---> Jan Sobieski (1570-1800)
HRE: Freiderich Barbarossa (940-1524) ---> Friedrich the Prussian (1524-1800)
Spain:Isabela (909-1512) ---> Charles V(1512-1800), using the Burgundian LH, actually depicting...him.
Norse: Harald Hardrada (780-1522) ---> Christian IV (1522-1800)
Moscow: Ivan IV (1320-1598) ---> Peter (1598-1740) ---> Catherine (1740-1800)
Austria: Leopold I (1161-1740) ---> Maria Theresa (1740-1800)
Genoa: Simone Boccanegra
England: William I (1066-1452) ---> Elizabeth (1452-1800)
Portugal: Joao II
Turkey: Mehmed II (1300-1512) ---> Suleiman I (1512-1800)
Dutch: Willem van Oranje
Sweden: Gustav Vasa

Leader change years:
France: 987 as the start date (Hugh Capet) of the French Kingdom
Byzantium: 868, start of the Macedonian Dynasty
Arabia: 1170, the creation of Saladin's Egyptian Kingdom
Cordoba: 1215, founding of the Marinid Kingdom
Hungary: 1302, end of the Arpad Dynasty
Poland: 1570, beginning of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
HRE: 1524, Prussia becomes an independent kingdom.
Spain: 1512, there wasn't much between these leaders, so...
Norse: 1522, independent Sweden and the end of the Kalmar Union
Muscowy: 1598, where expansion in Asia starts/1740, kinda same as the Spanish justification
Austria: 1740, creation of the Austria-Prussia dualism in Germany
England: 1452, end of the Hundred Year War
Turkey: 1512, expansion in Africa starts.

Sorry if the post is too long.

 

[Cethegus]

2. Maybe we could extend Willem a bit further, maybe about 60 turns, the way we have extended so many of the others.

Or not, and use the Dutch King more effectively as a Venetian Doge.

 

[micbic]

Or not, and use the Dutch King more effectively as a Venetian Doge.

What do you mean? Putting the second LH as a Venecian leader?

 

[merijn_v1]

Wow! Thanks! (I also think of replacing Willem van Oranje with Maurits von Nassau, he played a bigger part in the Dutch history than Willem IMO, anyway we have Dutch guys here so they could tell us their opinion about that )
EDIT 2: Willem van Oranje will be used for only 45 turns with that system. Overkill perhaps?

I say keep Willem van Oranje as the LH. And IMO he could stay for the whole period.

 

[Cethegus]

What do you mean? Putting the second LH as a Venecian leader?

Yes. In Rise of Mankind (although a little modified), he was used as Valenzio de Medici, Venetian leader. I thought it looked wonderful with all the luxury on him. It's not an idea not worth considering, keeping in mind Netherlands don't necessarily need a second leader, being a late game civ and all while Venezia is in the game for a thousand years.

 

[micbic]

Weren't the Medici from Firenze?

 

[embryodead]

Yes. In Rise of Mankind (although a little modified), he was used as Valenzio de Medici, Venetian leader. I thought it looked wonderful with all the luxury on him. It's not an idea not worth considering, keeping in mind Netherlands don't necessarily need a second leader, being a late game civ and all while Venezia is in the game for a thousand years.

Umm, you mixed it a bit tbh. Medicis were the rulers of Florence, not Venice. Just a few pages age I thought we agreed that Lorenzo the Medici / Dutch King (the other one, not the one that is discussed right now) would be good for GENOA as Simone Boccanegra, because unlike Venice, Genoa doesn't have a leaderhead at all. Alexander the Great makes me cry.

EDIT: The shaved Dutch dude as Genoan and the 2 other dudes from your post are Dutch through and through and can be used as extra leaders for Netherlands. Right?

 

[Cethegus]

Umm, you mixed it a bit tbh. Medicis were the rulers of Florence, not Venice. Just a few pages age I thought we agreed that Lorenzo the Medici / Dutch King (the other one, not the one that is discussed right now) would be good for GENOA as Simone Boccanegra, because unlike Venice, Genoa doesn't have a leaderhead at all. Alexander the Great makes me cry.

Regarding your mixing up comment, it's you who missed my point entirely. I just stated where he was used and as whom. Much like how there's no independent Florence in RFCE, wouldn't it be incorrect to have de Medici in charge of Venice if there was even a chance de Medici Banks would be founded in France or Germany?

Anyway, if Willem was gone, the Dutch King leader graphics could be used effectively because there would be no 'duplicates' in the mod (and I personally like it better than the shaved version). But true, I had forgotten about Genoa, whose Simon Boccanegra makes up for the void perfectly. If Willem stays for good, then I'm fine even with the "toned down" LH.

 

[embryodead]

Sorry then, I assumed it was about Thomas' War where he is used as Lorenzo the Medici, leader of Florence/Italy. Either way, with all the extra Dutch leaders I think there's no reason to keep him as Dutch.