RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[Wessel V1]

Germany lacks food. In Western Germany there is some around Frankfurt, there is some around Lübeck, there is some around Rostock, but that's generally it. Apples are too weak to be considerable. Poznan really needs a food resource, and central Germany is also quite empty. Perhaps the cow or the pig near Rostock could be moved?

 

[Daffy]

I've been wondering why the river 'Weser' wasn't added to the map, it's not only completely shippable but also certainly larger than the Ems which makes up the dutch border and was more important especially for the Hanse to expand land inwards. Should end 1 tile W of the Elbe in the North Sea and start about 1-2 tiles north of the german spawn point. Not sure what kind of difference it might make, but it should be there to be accurate. Also without it there would most likely be no Bremen which was along with Hamburg and Lübeck one of the last remaining Hanse cities at the end. There should also be more forests around the southern part of that river since the area is still quite forested even today

 

[kochman]

I've been wondering why the river 'Weser' wasn't added to the map, it's not only completely shippable but also certainly larger than the Ems which makes up the dutch border and was more important especially for the Hanse to expand land inwards. Should end 1 tile W of the Elbe in the North Sea and start about 1-2 tiles north of the german spawn point. Not sure what kind of difference it might make, but it should be there to be accurate. Also without it there would most likely be no Bremen which was along with Hamburg and Lübeck one of the last remaining Hanse cities at the end. There should also be more forests around the southern part of that river since the area is still quite forested even today

Agreed... the Weser is pretty important... there is space for it, though it may may Germany look like the Benelux with too many rivers, BUT, I don't think that justifies omitting it and the subsequent effects on gameplay.

 

[Daffy]

Making northwestern germany stronger might put more pressure on the dutch when they spawn, they certainly don't need that, but on the other hand maybe they'd finally get a german city to flip or so
I'm curious how the situation will look once germany gets a real chance at survival next beta
And someone mentioned something about 'softening' settler maps. Whats with the netherlands and germany? I see no reason why they shouldn't expand there, their UHV ends before the Dutch spawn so who cares if germany loses a few cities then. I personally like to found Amsterdam when I play as the germans.

 

[Daffy]

Just had a nice Austrian start with a surviving Germany
figured i'd add it in case anyone might want it.
But the reason for the post is the mentioned river, I opened WB and modified it a bit.
Looks good imo, but some of the city names are off i.e. Groningen should be on the salt, Minden one further east and others would be off too. But they are imo anyway

 

[kochman]

Looks good...
Personally I have always thought the Rhine should have more hills around it, since the whole Mainz-Weisbaden area is quit hilly, but, I am not sure of this. Thoughts?

 

[Daffy]

I find that part actually ok, the southern part of the Rhine is more of a valley and it flattens out more and more on its way north. Any more hills would only slow down growth in the area.
A pretty nice combo early on is Serfdom and Manorialism, and then building lots of farms along those rivers
I find windmills to be somewhat useless except in certain areas where there are pretty much only hills.
3 food 1 hammer and 3 commerce(with wharf)(or 2/2/3 on plains)isn't a bad trade-off considered against the drawbacks of those civics.
At least in the earlier stages

 

[KaiserBenjamin]

Making northwestern germany stronger might put more pressure on the dutch when they spawn, they certainly don't need that, but on the other hand maybe they'd finally get a german city to flip or so
I'm curious how the situation will look once germany gets a real chance at survival next beta
And someone mentioned something about 'softening' settler maps. Whats with the netherlands and germany? I see no reason why they shouldn't expand there, their UHV ends before the Dutch spawn so who cares if germany loses a few cities then. I personally like to found Amsterdam when I play as the germans.

I'm not sure what softening the settler maps means but I agree that in general they should be extended so all the civs branch out a little bit more. It's weird when there is prime real estate, particularly in central europe, that no one settles simply because it's not in their settlement map.

 

[ezzlar]

I have some issues with market economy vs merchant republic. Market economy gives +1 trade routes in all cities. Very good indeed. The merchant republic gives you same bonus as bureaucracy in capital.

Is M.R really the superior trade civic?

 

[Schnoucki]

Is M.R really the superior trade civic?

Market economy is "guilds" ?
On a broader question : It would be nice to have a update of the wiki on this, as it difers from the in game tips (or the french translation of?).

Economy

Decentralization: Same as original RFC. Default setting. wich is?

Manorialism:
+10% gold bonus, +1 food, +1 hammer in each city. +10% military unit production. all of above is obsolete?
-1 Trade route per city? .
+1 commerce from farm or is it gold?
Low upkeep.

Guilds: market eco?
commercial societies?
+1 Trade route/city?
+10% gold bonus. or not?
1 free specialist in each city. more with mercantilism, no?
High upkeep.

Mercantilism:
+20% gold bonus. Inflation +100%. +1 trade route per city. all of above is obsolete?
No foreign society?
No foreign trade routes. Medium upkeep.

Merchant Republic:
+50% unit build costs; +25% research and gold production bonus. -2 stability for each city beyond capital. => obsolete?
-25% maintenance com. society?
maintenance -50% for beeing away from capitol?
gold : +50% in capitol?
each unit requires 1 extra gold in maintenance cost/turn. +100% penalty to war weariness (twice as powerful). Medium upkeep.

 

[AdrienIer]

I have an other river request : Toulouse does not currently have access to a river, while IRL the garonne goes through it (the river that goes through Bordeaux). Can you please make it go through Toulouse before heading south ?

 

[Opera]

That may make Toulouse even more powerful than it can be... Not sure about the gameplay here.

 

[3Miro]

Market economy is "guilds" ?
On a broader question : It would be nice to have a update of the wiki on this, as it difers from the in game tips (or the french translation of?).

Economy

Decentralization: Same as original RFC. Default setting. wich is?

Manorialism:
+10% gold bonus, +1 food, +1 hammer in each city. +10% military unit production. all of above is obsolete?
-1 Trade route per city? .
+1 commerce from farm or is it gold?
Low upkeep.

Guilds: market eco?
commercial societies?
+1 Trade route/city?
+10% gold bonus. or not?
1 free specialist in each city. more with mercantilism, no?
High upkeep.

Mercantilism:
+20% gold bonus. Inflation +100%. +1 trade route per city. all of above is obsolete?
No foreign society?
No foreign trade routes. Medium upkeep.

Merchant Republic:
+50% unit build costs; +25% research and gold production bonus. -2 stability for each city beyond capital. => obsolete?
-25% maintenance com. society?
maintenance -50% for beeing away from capitol?
gold : +50% in capitol?
each unit requires 1 extra gold in maintenance cost/turn. +100% penalty to war weariness (twice as powerful). Medium upkeep.

The in game advisor screen reads the info straight from the XML and is therefore the current and accurate. The Wiki is out of date here, follow the advisor screen on the effects.

On the Merchant republic issue: If you have only a few cities (such as Venice and Genoa) the added bonus to the capital is better than the extra trade routes (MR and Bureaucracy stack up, it is not like one cancels the other). If you have a lot of cities then the extra Trade Routes win.

 

[Zipzapzup]

Didn't read the last pages of this thread so i hope i'm not telling you something already said.

1. Arabia is allways collapsing around ~1000 when they are hit by the first crusade and the seljuks. I've never had a game in which they survived. Furthermore when Arabia spawns again, 2 turns or so later the Pope calls for a crusade and Arabia is gone again. In one game Arabia was collapsing right after their respawn.

2. In the middle of the game i haven't anything to do. All conquest uhv are mostly down and i'm sitting on my army and can do nothing with it, because if i capture further cities outside the core area stability hits me hard so i have to get rid of these new cities. I noticed that especially for the French, Spain, Cordoba, Arabia and England.

3. It would be cool if there where more wars and more fighting. Sometimes the AI declares war on you but never sends any troops. Besides that the Pope should perhaps interfere more into wars between catholic civs, don't know how that can be done, but i would be nice.

 

[Cetrix]

Hello,

Here is my feedback about 4-5 games (win UVH with Burgundy and Scandinavia, work on Byzantines and French). ALL in Emperor difficulty.

- French : i've red a part of this thread, and I agree with the idea of having an expansive France until 843 and split in 3 countries. Except this, it's nice to play them. But the english are too shy, I want to see a real war in France against GB.
- Scandivania : Real cool to play, I like to conquer and raze cities. But too much easy in Emperor difficulty. The second UVH is so boring ! The last goal is a race, not to be technologically backward.
- Byzantines : a real challenge in emperor. It's really hard to manage the stability. First UVH is too much easy. But, I don't understand the second UVH ; i'm in 1300 in my game, have the whole Anatolia (including Antiokeia) and Greece, and kick off the turks at their first turn. What we have to do ? No lose cities before 1300 ? Quite impossible with stability (in my best game with byzantines, only 2 cities collapse). Maybe i have a clue about this ; barbarians razed one of my cities (the one at the right of Antiokeia) and I did not rebuild it.
- Burgundy : first goal is very easy. The second one is a bit much harder, especially if you can't lead a crusade against Jerusalem. It was my case and I had to build an entire army and flotilla to conquer the holy city. But i was lucky, the arabs collapsed and there was only 1 troop to defend it. The third goal is easy if you have Jerusalem and Damascus (a lot of silk !).

At last, the mod is very interesting and I really like it. Balancing UVH seems to be very hard and complicated... good luck !
I can help for this, but i haven't read the entire thread

EDIT : omg i just noticed that i've play with alpha and not bêta...

 

[fireclaw722]

EDIT : omg i just noticed that i've play with alpha and not bêta...

There's not much difference with the last Alpha and the new Beta.



Personally, I would like to see most of the Stability, Settler, and War maps to overlap, allowing more aggressive(and more interesting) wars. It would be great to see France actually conquering Burgundy(without France falling to civil war) by Dutch Spawn, Germany/HRE moving through Poland(although I've seen this one much more than the rest), Moscow taking out Kiev/Mongol Horde(in Kievan Rus, of course), Ottomans expanding into Byzantine/Seljuk lands(I've rarely seen the Ottomans do much unless the Byzantines are collapsed to a crusade/Bulgarian invasion), etc...

 

[ezzlar]

I think "overlap" is the key word here. If every AI is ok with their own territory we get a fairly peaceful game. And that is hardly a description for European history!

 

[fireclaw722]

I think "overlap" is the key word here. If every AI is ok with their own territory we get a fairly peaceful game. And that is hardly a description for European history!

That is pretty much the problem with the AI, as I've seen them declare war and defend themselves, but unless it's 'Worthwhile for the AI', they don't seem to want to do anything(except move an invicible army near your borders and scare you to death). Although this is not true for all AI, as I've seen Hungary(into Kievan Rus) and Austria(into Hungary, Germany, or Venetia) expand into others' core zones before, not much, but enough to say 'it's happened'.

 

[Opera]

Why isn't Riga spawning near the river? It would miss the crab (which could be moved) but being on the river seems rather a good idea. And AFAIK, Riga is on a river.

 

[Morholt]

Poland seems to never take Minsk in my games. Maybe they should have their warmap and settlermap extended?