RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[yogiebere]

Well.. 'Wall Street' doesn't really fit in, since this is rfc 'Europe'. 'Wall Street' as a financial center is located in New York City which places it outside of the region and I dare to say that it only became really important after the date at which this mod ends

The 'Forbidden City' wouldn't fit in either but afaik it's called 'Summer Palace' and that makes it suitable imo.

yes yes I know I meant the civ4 equivalent. Couldn't there be some sort of equivalent for wall st.? Like Financial Center or something

And as mentioned often, the lack of protestantism to work properly is KILLING ME, because having catholicism really puts you at a disadvantage especially for a civ like spain or england that needs to make colonies en mass - I'm honestly tempted to try to find the version 2 somewhere so it will work

Also something was up with the Kiev monestary/cathedral UHV, i didn't have all of them, but many turns before the date, it said i won...

 

[merijn_v1]

yes yes I know I meant the civ4 equivalent. Couldn't there be some sort of equivalent for wall st.? Like Financial Center or something

And as mentioned often, the lack of protestantism to work properly is KILLING ME, because having catholicism really puts you at a disadvantage especially for a civ like spain or england that needs to make colonies en mass - I'm honestly tempted to try to find the version 2 somewhere so it will work

Also something was up with the Kiev monestary/cathedral UHV, i didn't have all of them, but many turns before the date, it said i won...

We have a replacement for the Wall Street. Its the Amsterdam Beurs. The only differences are that the Amsterdam Beurs is a world wonder instead of a national wonder and it gives happiness/health with some resources. Most other wonders have an equivalent. (Statue of Zeus = Tomb of Al Khalid, Taj Mahal = Dome of the Rock, The Kremlin = Brandenburg Gate etc.)

Could you please upload a save some turns before you got the Kievan UHV?

 

[Ambreville]

Hi guys! I just ran RFC Medieval Middle East. One of the nicest thing I found there was the game speed. RFC-MME runs much more quickly than RFC Europe (the wait between the turns is much shorter). I'm not sure why, but if any of their streamlining/coding could be applied to RFC-Europe, it would be a vast improvement. I don't know if this is a valid suggestion, but I thought I'd pass it along nonetheless. Cheers!

 

[sedna17]

Hi guys! I just ran RFC Medieval Middle East. One of the nicest thing I found there was the game speed. RFC-MME runs much more quickly than RFC Europe (the wait between the turns is much shorter). I'm not sure why, but if any of their streamlining/coding could be applied to RFC-Europe, it would be a vast improvement. I don't know if this is a valid suggestion, but I thought I'd pass it along nonetheless. Cheers!

There are some very useful changes that I know how to port over (eliminating most of the "pickling" and disabling python feedbacks). There are some (integration of CAR caching/ auto-save disabling during auto-play) that I'd have to study more to figure out.

Basically, it would be nice, but it's a trade off (in developer time) with balancing/bug-fixing/new features.

 

[Ambreville]

There are some very useful changes that I know how to port over (eliminating most of the "pickling" and disabling python feedbacks). There are some (integration of CAR caching/ auto-save disabling during auto-play) that I'd have to study more to figure out.

Basically, it would be nice, but it's a trade off (in developer time) with balancing/bug-fixing/new features.

Nice to hear that. Best of luck then, whenever!

 

[embryodead]

If you guys need a hand in merging the speed tweaks just give me green light. IIRC 3Miro already merged CAR in, but there's a few more things that popped up recently like BTS on Speed modcomp.

 

[yogiebere]

We have a replacement for the Wall Street. Its the Amsterdam Beurs. The only differences are that the Amsterdam Beurs is a world wonder instead of a national wonder and it gives happiness/health with some resources. Most other wonders have an equivalent. (Statue of Zeus = Tomb of Al Khalid, Taj Mahal = Dome of the Rock, The Kremlin = Brandenburg Gate etc.)

Could you please upload a save some turns before you got the Kievan UHV?

Oh right, forgot about that one. That's fine, as most civs can get it if they try for it

 

[Ambreville]

Another handy-dandy thing in RFC Middle East is the ability to show the names of provinces (territories, etc) at the tooltip directly on the map. This would help with RFC Europe UHV's when not sure where an area is located.

 

[sedna17]

If you guys need a hand in merging the speed tweaks just give me green light. IIRC 3Miro already merged CAR in, but there's a few more things that popped up recently like BTS on Speed modcomp.

Thanks for the offer. I forgot that 3Miro had already integrated CAR. Yay, one less thing to do. I think the BTS on speed stuff will be pretty easy to merge, but I'll bug you if I run into any problems since it looks like you've successfully merged it into an RFC-based mod.

Another handy-dandy thing in RFC Middle East is the ability to show the names of provinces (territories, etc) at the tooltip directly on the map. This would help with RFC Europe UHV's when not sure where an area is located.

Changing to the province model would require a substantial re-write and is not going to happen, although I still want to find another way to let players see the UHV areas in-game.

 

[civ_king]

Thanks for the offer. I forgot that 3Miro had already integrated CAR. Yay, one less thing to do. I think the BTS on speed stuff will be pretty easy to merge, but I'll bug you if I run into any problems since it looks like you've successfully merged it into an RFC-based mod.



Changing to the province model would require a substantial re-write and is not going to happen, although I still want to find another way to let players see the UHV areas in-game.

Leoreth implemented a mouse over reveals how stable it is to take over that tile

 

[yogiebere]

Leoreth implemented a mouse over reveals how stable it is to take over that tile

really? thats pretty awesome. When will it be implemented

Ok so I tried Russia, just for some kicks as it would be cool to play a truly massive empire, and it actually holds up well but for some stability problems early on.

So except for the initial orthodoxy in my cities, i was mostly protestant, probably due to Germany's easternmost city being protestant capital. So I converted to protestant - for the beaker bonus (russia is so far behind in techs its unbelievable)

So i go to spread it to my other cities, i have organized religion (to build all those courthouses and town watches to stabilize my empire) and it says I need a protestant seminary to build a missionary. WTH i thought OR made it possible to build missionaries without. It'll be like 30 turns before I get printing press so I'm screwed for the time being on culture in new cities (well until theatres get built)

 

[sedna17]

So i go to spread it to my other cities, i have organized religion (to build all those courthouses and town watches to stabilize my empire) and it says I need a protestant seminary to build a missionary. WTH i thought OR made it possible to build missionaries without. It'll be like 30 turns before I get printing press so I'm screwed for the time being on culture in new cities (well until theatres get built)

Right, technically OR allows you to build missionaries without monasteries. I think the game logic gets a little confused with our seminaries -- I'll fix it.

 

[yogiebere]

Could you please upload a save some turns before you got the Kievan UHV?

I'd love to but I admit I don't know how. Also my save (autosaves were written over previously) is about 20 turns before, so i dont know if the problem will come up again

I also have a suggestion on the accuracy and balance of some of the slavic civs:

1. Kievan Rus stays alive through barbs! Great job guys
2. Russian is just too large imo. I think the skew of the map so its curved up at the end is a bad idea. Without encroaching on Kiev or Poland or Norse, you can build 20+ cities! thats just massive and unncessarily so. I like the tundra forest at the top, but it still just seems weird. I wish the top edge could be trimmed by 8-10 squares, but it would mess up the norse. Anyway I'm just complaining about the geography, which seems to be way beyond discussion.
3. Poland sucks. It gets a lot of cities, but often with the uselessly awful moorland (I'm not a fan!!!) and never gets anywhere close to the science of other civs, and often is just a pawn
4. Kiev Rus is geographically off. The spawn is correct, but Kiev went north not south, so protecting the north black sea beach is weird. However I do understand the balancing issues as there isn't another civ there http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Kievan_Rus_en.jpg
5. Russias spawn is too small - There was a Kiev city about 5 squares south of moscow and it didn't turn.... So basically I have to conquer Kiev Rus, which is ok with me, but I feel like it should be more encouraged with a larger spawn area.
anyway thus ends my rant

 

[merijn_v1]

I'd love to but I admit I don't know how. Also my save (autosaves were written over previously) is about 20 turns before, so i dont know if the problem will come up again

I also have a suggestion on the accuracy and balance of some of the slavic civs:

1. Kievan Rus stays alive through barbs! Great job guys
2. Russian is just too large imo. I think the skew of the map so its curved up at the end is a bad idea. Without encroaching on Kiev or Poland or Norse, you can build 20+ cities! thats just massive and unncessarily so. I like the tundra forest at the top, but it still just seems weird. I wish the top edge could be trimmed by 8-10 squares, but it would mess up the norse. Anyway I'm just complaining about the geography, which seems to be way beyond discussion.
3. Poland sucks. It gets a lot of cities, but often with the uselessly awful moorland (I'm not a fan!!!) and never gets anywhere close to the science of other civs, and often is just a pawn
4. Kiev Rus is geographically off. The spawn is correct, but Kiev went north not south, so protecting the north black sea beach is weird. However I do understand the balancing issues as there isn't another civ there http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Kievan_Rus_en.jpg
5. Russias spawn is too small - There was a Kiev city about 5 squares south of moscow and it didn't turn.... So basically I have to conquer Kiev Rus, which is ok with me, but I feel like it should be more encouraged with a larger spawn area.
anyway thus ends my rant

You can upload saves/screenshots etc. with the attachment manager. (the paper-clip button)

1. Did this happen a lot. AFAIK, we try them to be conquered by the Mongols (barbs) in most times. (80-90% of the times)
2. I agree Russia is large, but you (normally) can't build 20 cities there. It will hurt your stability and research very much. BTW, the AI hardly ever build that much cities.
3. IIRC, Poland will get a better spawning situation in a next version. (e.g. more resources around their capital etc.)
4. I agree the UHV of controlling the northern Black Sea could be extended with some areas in the north. (Although I also think this UHV has to stay)
5. In a previous version, the Moscowians (spelling???) had a larger spawn area. But that had a major drawback. They couldn't keep up with the maintenance etc.. (with 0% research they had a loss of X ) Our solution allows you to build up an empire and then conquering some cities.

 

[yogiebere]

You can upload saves/screenshots etc. with the attachment manager. (the paper-clip button)

1. Did this happen a lot. AFAIK, we try them to be conquered by the Mongols (barbs) in most times. (80-90% of the times)
2. I agree Russia is large, but you (normally) can't build 20 cities there. It will hurt your stability and research very much. BTW, the AI hardly ever build that much cities.
3. IIRC, Poland will get a better spawning situation in a next version. (e.g. more resources around their capital etc.)
4. I agree the UHV of controlling the northern Black Sea could be extended with some areas in the north. (Although I also think this UHV has to stay)
5. In a previous version, the Moscowians (spelling???) had a larger spawn area. But that had a major drawback. They couldn't keep up with the maintenance etc.. (with 0% research they had a loss of X ) Our solution allows you to build up an empire and then conquering some cities.

yeah that makes sense i guess Kiev should die, but it usually just creates this black hole of independency, cus Moscovy will conquer some but very very slowly. This is actually a problem in the game I think - often times it wont be until 1400 until spain has no independents, and genoa NEVER conquers the pretty good city of tunis (ive seen them build cities right near it, but not actually taking it.
And I wouldn't say thats true. On viceroy granted, I had about 25 cities, about 80% research and 1500 science per turn
yes the black sea UHV should be kept
I guess so, but their power is reduce maintenance, maybe decrease civic maintenance by 25% as well?
Sorry I used the American "moscow" I know it should be Moscovy as a more accurate way to spell it in english (i know nothing about russian)
Also I know there has been discussion about this, but would lithuania be a bad idea? It was a fairly large civ that could fill some space, and it was around for several hundred years. But then again, that's what it would be doing - filling space, and we already have a lot of those (bulgaria, poland, kiev, russia and hungary to some extent)

 

[merijn_v1]

yeah that makes sense i guess Kiev should die, but it usually just creates this black hole of independency, cus Moscovy will conquer some but very very slowly. This is actually a problem in the game I think - often times it wont be until 1400 until spain has no independents, and genoa NEVER conquers the pretty good city of tunis (ive seen them build cities right near it, but not actually taking it.
And I wouldn't say thats true. On viceroy granted, I had about 25 cities, about 80% research and 1500 science per turn
yes the black sea UHV should be kept
I guess so, but their power is reduce maintenance, maybe decrease civic maintenance by 25% as well?
Sorry I used the American "moscow" I know it should be Moscovy as a more accurate way to spell it in english (i know nothing about russian)
Also I know there has been discussion about this, but would lithuania be a bad idea? It was a fairly large civ that could fill some space, and it was around for several hundred years. But then again, that's what it would be doing - filling space, and we already have a lot of those (bulgaria, poland, kiev, russia and hungary to some extent)

It isn't calculated that way. In RFC and RFCEurope, your number of is the same as it would be in a vanilla game, but the number of required for a tech is increased. In other words, the techs become more expansive.

 

[Leoreth]

Leoreth implemented a mouse over reveals how stable it is to take over that tile

Just saw that post here. You're of course free to scavenge whatever you need from DoC

The affected files are CvGameTextManager.cpp and CvScreensInterface.py.

 

[Duke of Awesome]

not really sure if this is "playtesting" feedback but i thought id post it here anyway. i love the start menu music does anyone know the name of it?

 

[merijn_v1]

Here is a link to a youtube film that is the same "song" as the opening menu.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOZhl7KAQFc&feature=related
The name of the song is: "zazoriavane" of "Elit".
(the link to the thread I found it: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326455)

Here is a link with a better sound, but same song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFXeEIEFYeY

 

[Daffy]

I'm curious about whether or not it is possible to win the UHV with Portugal in this savegame. It looked promising at first, but... well Germany & Bulgaria are stealing the show

The problem would obviously be the colonies. And as i've mentioned before, any ideas about the UB of the portuguese? Feitoria.. utterly useless imo, at least for the UHV.

Or is the general idea that Spain has to be conquered/collapsed to win?