RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[The Turk]

1) I couldn't find a source for Welsh gems,

Sorry I meant *Gold*...
But yes Gold was a huge industry in Wales (not so much anymore), but there should be a deposit of gold their if there isn't already.

I don't know guys, but I also think that these corporations should be locked to certain provinces. As in for example the French or Spanish cannot found the Hanseatic league, but then the Polish can't found the Knights Templer, because I think thats a bit absurd. If you lock it to a certain provinces, it would make more sense, historically wise and gameplay wise, as you could then diversify what the corporation does, and specialize it. Or else currently you have a few of the most powerful civilizations having all the corporations, and civilizations like the Norse (or Swedes) not having anything, even the all too important Hanseatic League. I would strongly encourage you guys to implement something like that.

 

[Veshta]

Is there any way to prevent corporation from getting absurd?...

No don't kill off Norse Hanseatic Iceland, the northern powerhouse

Perhaps set a hard limit on number of resources that can be consumed so the only way to get more out of them is to expand like mad.

Locking them into provinces is going to make it boring as hell. The religious orders are now taken by whomever makes it to Monument Building first (+100% ) and the others are a tech race.
So far I have seen everyone (except orthodox/muslim) get them with no clear "winner".
Just last night Moscow managed to snag Medici and Norse very frequently gets at least one corporation in my games.

The only thing that annoys me, with the orders specially, is that the units are more powerful than equivalent units, are faster to produce AND ignore tech requirements (ie. Templars/Teutonics before Chivalry).

 

[civ_king]

No don't kill off Norse Hanseatic Iceland, the northern powerhouse

Perhaps set a hard limit on number of resources that can be consumed so the only way to get more out of them is to expand like mad.

Locking them into provinces is going to make it boring as hell. The religious orders are now taken by whomever makes it to Monument Building first (+100% ) and the others are a tech race.
So far I have seen everyone (except orthodox/muslim) get them with no clear "winner".
Just last night Moscow managed to snag Medici and Norse very frequently gets at least one corporation in my games.

The only thing that annoys me, with the orders specially, is that the units are more powerful than equivalent units, are faster to produce AND ignore tech requirements (ie. Templars/Teutonics before Chivalry).

That's what your Mom said last night when she saw my pop 40 Reykjavik

 

[Ogi123]

Okay, reworked somewhat city names map, fixed some cites names to remove all those ó, ż, ź, ą, ę, and added some resources:
- Salt 1S from Kraków (Wieliczka)
- Added gems (amber) in Kołobrzeg (on moorland, 1W from salt)
- Honey 2S from Gniezno, can be anywhere... (around forest or woodland)
- Wheat 2E from Kraków and 1E from Gniezno, on Middle Poland lowlands and Lublin uplands best agricultural soil in Poland.
- Cow 1S under Gdańsk, also can be anywhere, other polish "red" cattle can be also placed in Silesia, but I'm unsure about balance.
Well that more or less all, cow, wheat and honey can be moved if necessary, can somebody check balance of this?
Resource placement assume that first city will be Gniezno, not Poznań.

 

[The Turk]

I just updated my RFCE folder to the newest version, when I realized two things:

1) Why can't you have state religions until Theology? Won't this worsen the religion problem?

2) Instead of calling the Masjid al-Haram, "The Road to the Masjid al-Haram", why don't you like I said ages ago, call it the Ummayad Mosque . The Ummayad Mosque in Damascus is the 4th Holiest site in Islam, and would definitely fit this description, as its a VERY important site. Also you can use art from the Sword of Islam mod, for a mosque, and it would look great. Or else currently you still have a Black Dome in the middle of Damascus which doesn't make sense at all.

 

[3Miro]

I just updated my RFCE folder to the newest version, when I realized two things:

1) Why can't you have state religions until Theology? Won't this worsen the religion problem?

2) Instead of calling the Masjid al-Haram, "The Road to the Masjid al-Haram", why don't you like I said ages ago, call it the Ummayad Mosque . The Ummayad Mosque in Damascus is the 4th Holiest site in Islam, and would definitely fit this description, as its a VERY important site. Also you can use art from the Sword of Islam mod, for a mosque, and it would look great. Or else currently you still have a Black Dome in the middle of Damascus which doesn't make sense at all.

1. Theology delays state religion for the Franks and perhaps the Norse. Everyone else starts with Theology (it is a tier 1 tech anyway).

2. If Ummayad Mosque is the 4th, then what are the other 3 (Masjid al-Haram is the first, so I guess I am asking about the other two). If the Dome of the Rock is 2nd or 3d, then Ummayad Mosque will not fit. Ummayad Mosque will fit only if it is the holiest Muslim cite on our map.

 

[The Turk]

2. If Ummayad Mosque is the 4th, then what are the other 3 (Masjid al-Haram is the first, so I guess I am asking about the other two). If the Dome of the Rock is 2nd or 3d, then Ummayad Mosque will not fit. Ummayad Mosque will fit only if it is the holiest Muslim cite on our map.

The Dome of the Rock is the third holiest site, but its already shown in game. IMO I would have Jerusalem as the Holy City for the Arabs, but I would still include the Umayyad Mosque for its importance, and remove the Masjid al-Haram altogether.

 

[3Miro]

The Dome of the Rock is the third holiest site, but its already shown in game. IMO I would have Jerusalem as the Holy City for the Arabs, but I would still include the Umayyad Mosque for its importance, and remove the Masjid al-Haram altogether.

There was a lot of debate about making Jerusalem the Holy City for Islam (with the Dome of the Rock). Jerusalem is the Holiest City on the map and it does have a huge role (with special scenarios and so on), but making Jerusalem a "Holy City" (as in Holy City Shrine +gold) would be way too much. None of the Christian religions have Jerusalem as "THE" Holy City and if Judaism wasn't a "minor" religion, then I would object to them having Jerusalem either.

Think about this: Jerusalem is the Holiest city for Christianity (number one) and third holiest for Islam. Making Jerusalem the Holiest City for Islam would make Jerusalem holier for Muslims than it is for Christians.

There would be problems with the whole founding of Islam scenario. Islam gets founded on the first Arabian turn, only Arabia can found Islam (as they are the only ones with the tech), yet Jerusalem doesn't flip until the third turn.

Think about Arabia and Crusades. Loss of Jerusalem wold mean not only loss of the city, but also loss of the Shrine income. Then the Catholics that capture Jerusalem would get bonuses from Muslim pilgrims, which doesn't really make sense. Having the Islamic Holy City would also increase the spread of Islam in the Catholic countries.

Crusaders can capture Damascus and get all of the things mentioned above, however, this would already be an ahistoric scenario (with Crusaders getting a huge portion of the Middle-East). You should not all of those effects with holding only Jerusalem.

Having Damascus as the Muslim Holy City is very beneficial for Arabia. Having Jerusalem as the Muslim Holy City would swing the balance and cause all sorts of additional mayhem. At the end we have to work within the limitations of the game engine. Damascus is the best Holy City for Islam (we can play around with the name and graphics of the holy shrine).

 

[The Turk]

There was a lot of debate about making Jerusalem the Holy City for Islam (with the Dome of the Rock). Jerusalem is the Holiest City on the map and it does have a huge role (with special scenarios and so on), but making Jerusalem a "Holy City" (as in Holy City Shrine +gold) would be way too much. None of the Christian religions have Jerusalem as "THE" Holy City and if Judaism wasn't a "minor" religion, then I would object to them having Jerusalem either.

Think about this: Jerusalem is the Holiest city for Christianity (number one) and third holiest for Islam. Making Jerusalem the Holiest City for Islam would make Jerusalem holier for Muslims than it is for Christians.

There would be problems with the whole founding of Islam scenario. Islam gets founded on the first Arabian turn, only Arabia can found Islam (as they are the only ones with the tech), yet Jerusalem doesn't flip until the third turn.

Think about Arabia and Crusades. Loss of Jerusalem wold mean not only loss of the city, but also loss of the Shrine income. Then the Catholics that capture Jerusalem would get bonuses from Muslim pilgrims, which doesn't really make sense. Having the Islamic Holy City would also increase the spread of Islam in the Catholic countries.

Crusaders can capture Damascus and get all of the things mentioned above, however, this would already be an ahistoric scenario (with Crusaders getting a huge portion of the Middle-East). You should not all of those effects with holding only Jerusalem.

Having Damascus as the Muslim Holy City is very beneficial for Arabia. Having Jerusalem as the Muslim Holy City would swing the balance and cause all sorts of additional mayhem. At the end we have to work within the limitations of the game engine. Damascus is the best Holy City for Islam (we can play around with the name and graphics of the holy shrine).

lol, ok so replace the Masjid al-Haram with the Umayyad mosque, if it matters to you so much. Just do it, and this whole problem with go away!
Plus I'm sure you can salvage some Wonder Mosque art from Sword of Islam.

 

[Ogi123]

Ugh, play tested resources in Poland some more, unfortunately they are in need of some fixes, so I'm posting much better version.
Anybody else get bug in which some city names are cut in half, in example Gniez, Szcze instead of Gniezno, Szczecin. Perhaps it's effect of wrong rar compression?

To do things for mod authors (for Poland):
- move starting location 1NE to Gniezno
-add 1 catholic missionary to starting units

Other thing are gems, amber should be less "powerful", +3 gold instead of +4, perhaps also no production bonus? Because as for now it's bit to strong for Norse, Sweden and Poland in regards of boosting tech rate.

Edit: forgot changelog...
-moved honey 1SW from under Gniezno, to much food for this city
-moved cow 2W/1S, bonus should go for Gniezno not other city (usually Gdansk)
-added timber 1S under Gniezno (forest), this city has problems with production
-replaced one title of forest with woodland 1SE (from Gniezno), same reason as above
-added honey 3E from Gniezno, any city founded in this region needs some food
-moved wheat 1E from Krakow outside it's city limits, reason: city too powerful, grows to fast, this also gives that food to city in Galicia (almost no resources here)
-added deer 2E from Lwow, boost to cities in this region
-added timber in Belz (forest), seriously this whole region previously lacked any resources, with exception of 1 coal (Chocim)

This made me realize that forests have negative impact for cities, -1 food and only +1 production really makes them bad. Add to this that they can be only chopped with machine tools, one of last techs, and only improvement available is lumber mill (+1production)... Perhaps -1food and +2 production?

Spotted some mistake in tech tree, protestantism is founded with industrial revolution (last tech) instead of printing press. Is that intentional?

 

[3Miro]

The Protestantism vs Industrial Tech is just a placeholder. The Printing Press starts the Reformation, which in turn founds Protestantism. Basically, Protestantism is founded by the Printing Press.

Forests are fine. We want to make the game challenging, there is no reason to give so much bonus to forests.

Can you please work with krieger546, he wants to edit the North-East part of the map and you shouldn't get conflicts in the changes that you make.

 

[The Turk]

A few more things to take into consideration for Beta 11:

1) For the Arab UHV's, it should be "THE Sword of Islam", "THE House of Islam" but I would just call it Dar al-Islam (sounds more authentic), and finally "THE World of Islam"

2) I recommend that you change the Arab LH, as currently he looks kind of weird; I'm sure you can find something from SoI or wait for The_Capo's long awaited Harun al-Rashid LH which is coming out soon

3) Just for a more aesthetic value, I'd capitalize the beginning of each word for the UHV's

4) Please, Please, Please nerf the Bulgarians. Frankly the Bulgarians should one of the hardest civilizations to play as, and more often then not, should be crushed by the Byzantine Empire. I would suggest removing some resources (perhaps having some spawn back later), reduce their starting units, or make their UU weaker and finally but research penalties on them.

5) In relation to #4, I'd suggest having a non-playable Serbian civilization. This would counter Hungary and the Bulgarians, and make for a more even Balkan region, as currently Bulgaria rules from the Adriatic to the Black Sea. Serbia would be weak, but strong enough to fend itself off from Bulgaria and initially from Hungary and Venice, but would perhaps disintegrate, only appearing again later in the game (if the Austrians or Ottomans are weak, lets say).

 

[Ogi123]

Used wrong map for resource placement (beta9), here is correct version with newest map (only resources), all changes from previous post still apply (see changelog).

 

[merijn_v1]

A few more things to take into consideration for Beta 11:

1) For the Arab UHV's, it should be "THE Sword of Islam", "THE House of Islam" but I would just call it Dar al-Islam (sounds more authentic), and finally "THE World of Islam"

2) I recommend that you change the Arab LH, as currently he looks kind of weird; I'm sure you can find something from SoI or wait for The_Capo's long awaited Harun al-Rashid LH which is coming out soon

3) Just for a more aesthetic value, I'd capitalize the beginning of each word for the UHV's

4) Please, Please, Please nerf the Bulgarians. Frankly the Bulgarians should one of the hardest civilizations to play as, and more often then not, should be crushed by the Byzantine Empire. I would suggest removing some resources (perhaps having some spawn back later), reduce their starting units, or make their UU weaker and finally but research penalties on them.

5) In relation to #4, I'd suggest having a non-playable Serbian civilization. This would counter Hungary and the Bulgarians, and make for a more even Balkan region, as currently Bulgaria rules from the Adriatic to the Black Sea. Serbia would be weak, but strong enough to fend itself off from Bulgaria and initially from Hungary and Venice, but would perhaps disintegrate, only appearing again later in the game (if the Austrians or Ottomans are weak, lets say).

1. Done

2. Which one do you think looks weird? If you provide us with a better one we will include it.

3. I'm quite sure I did it with all of them. Maybe I forgot some. Can you please say which one(s) need to be capitalized.

 

[The Turk]

2. Which one do you think looks weird? If you provide us with a better one we will include it.

When The Capo finishes his Harun al-Rashid LH, I'll link it here. By the way I'm talking about the Abu Bakr LH. The Saladin one is fine, and I'd recommend that you have Saladin appear when the Arabs respawn in Egypt. But for the mean time Abu Bakr is ok, as I said I'll get you the other LH when its released.

3. I'm quite sure I did it with all of them. Maybe I forgot some. Can you please say which one(s) need to be capitalized.

Ok here is the list:
Austrians (Third UHV)
Bulgarians (Third UHV, the "can")
Burgundians (Second UHV, the "way")
Cordoba (Second UHV, "architecture") -- also can you please change the name of the third UHV, it just doesn't apply itself to the Cordobans.
English (Third UHV)
Genoans (First UHV)
Germans (Third UHV)

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Also there is a new Clovis I LH so why don't you remove the ahistorical Joan d'Arc, and add a real King of France. You can have Clovis appear first, and then move up the rest of the French LH's. Its just that for such a European focused map, its annoying to see Joan d'Arc appear, when in reality IMO she did not do much (but thats digressing...)
Another great new LH is a William of Nassau, frankly this LH looks AWESOME! And I would love it to be included for the Dutch!

Also I recommend you guys change the background. Heck even I, with limited modding experience was able to do it. There are tons of tutorials, and its quite easy to do.

And finally, when you are reviewing the English civilization, notify me as I have quite a lot to say about their spawn. For starters their complete Northern France flip to wrong and ahistorical. They definitely should not be receiving Calais.

EDIT: Why don't the Venetians start with a Catholic Missionary? I thought they always started with one, or Catholicism as their starting religion?

EDIT: (Sorry for all the Edit's), its 872 AD and the Byzantines created "Marco Polo's Embassy" -- something needs to be changed...
ALSO the Arabs have already collapsed, I don't know if this is the start to a mega Byzantine Empire, but something is definitely wrong.

 

[merijn_v1]

When The Capo finishes his Harun al-Rashid LH, I'll link it here. By the way I'm talking about the Abu Bakr LH. The Saladin one is fine, and I'd recommend that you have Saladin appear when the Arabs respawn in Egypt. But for the mean time Abu Bakr is ok, as I said I'll get you the other LH when its released.

Ok. Please let us now when the LH is finished, so we can check if it's good enough for inclusion.

Ok here is the list:
Austrians (Third UHV)
Bulgarians (Third UHV, the "can")
Burgundians (Second UHV, the "way")
Cordoba (Second UHV, "architecture") -- also can you please change the name of the third UHV, it just doesn't apply itself to the Cordobans.
English (Third UHV)
Genoans (First UHV)
Germans (Third UHV)

Done. If you have a better name for the 3rd Cordoban UHV, please say it. I will change the name if someone comes up with a better one. I don't mind replacing other existing UHV-names with better ones. But I didn't recieve any suggestions yet.

Also there is a new Clovis I LH so why don't you remove the ahistorical Joan d'Arc, and add a real King of France. You can have Clovis appear first, and then move up the rest of the French LH's. Its just that for such a European focused map, its annoying to see Joan d'Arc appear, when in reality IMO she did not do much (but thats digressing...)

I actually like Joan d'Arc. But that's a personal opinion. But I don't think Clovis I is a good replacement, because he died in about 511. (according to wikipedia) He would only be in the game for 3 turns, if we want to keep it historical. Not worth it.

Another great new LH is a William of Nassau, frankly this LH looks AWESOME! And I would love it to be included for the Dutch!

I agree it's a nice LH, but there isn't much need for it. The Dutch have very little turn when they are present. There are hardly enough turns for 2 LH's. (It isn't very useful to have Willem van Oranje for 3 turns or so and then switch) And it also adds (a bit useless) size to the mod.

Also I recommend you guys change the background. Heck even I, with limited modding experience was able to do it. There are tons of tutorials, and its quite easy to do.

I was thinking this to. I know how to change backgrounds, so I will try something.

@ All
Do you think the loading background is nice as the background for the mod?

 

[Caliom]

@ All
Do you think the loading background is nice as the background for the mod?

I like the loading screen

 

[The Turk]

@ All
Do you think the loading background is nice as the background for the mod?

Mmm.. I mean it is very nice, but I would suggest having a unique background for the mod, rather than just copying a background already in the background. Heck you could use the Domo background from BtS and just change the tile, if you want.

 

[The Turk]

I found out why Arabia probably collapsed in my first game, its because there are Mongolian/Steppe Horse Archers attacking them from the deserts of Arabia in the 9th century

 

[Lennon789]

When I play as the Byzantines, everybody seems to think I'm a different religion from them, and I suffer an unsightly diplomatic penalty. I think it may have something to with the fact that you start the game as Orthodox, instead of converting after you discover State Religion. Any thoughts?

Also, I believe the stability system is either broken, or the financial advisor screen is grossly misleading. For example, I will have one star in the civics department when all of the civics I've adopted would seem to reinforce each other (feudal law+serfdom, etc.)