RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[The Turk]

First off, I want to say great work on the newest version of this mod, it looks really great!

Here are a few comments:

1.The region of "Jerusalem" should be called instead "Palestine", it just sounds more authentic like that
2. Please consider adding in Palermo or Syracuse to Sicily
3. There are still city ruins in Morocco, co-ordinates (22,22)
4. Although I don't disagree with it, what was the point of adding Lithuania to the game?
5. England is unhistorically bear before 1066. You should include the Anglo-Saxon culture which existed there before 1066. Bringing me to #6....
6. The Normans are not represented at ALL in Northern France. Please look into Rollo the Viking or check out Lars Browthworth's podcast on the Normans (on iTunes). I would therefore recommend a heavily fortified Rouen to spawn in Northern France which would spawn in 911, the year Rollo took command of Normandy as part of an agreement with the French King. So you could spawn an independent Catholic Rouen in 911 and in 1066 have an independent Rennes in Bretagne also flip to the Kingdom of England.
7. Wales was independent for quite some time, I would therefore recommend having some independent city stationed there, therefore forcing the player to build a city at the tip of England and flipping York. Than have the English player expand in Britain and Ireland first, before expanding to France.
Lastly about England: They should NOT start at war with France !

Spoiler :

Let the Human declare war on France by themselves or force the AI to declare war on France at a certain point in time if they have not done so already

8. Have an English army spawn outside of an independent London, and have them try to attack it and capture it. Think of SoI with the PoA and KoJ and even Leoreth's mod with the Ottomans having to first capture Constantinople. It would work the same way, and in general makes the most sense, as 1066 was an invasion not the beginning of a new civilization.
9. The German 2nd UHV to have "3 vassals" sounds a tad weak, and I don't see the relevance. Could this perhaps be changed to something else? I was even thinking along the lines of accumulating Religious points, especially considering how pious the German Emperors were.
10. Why not separate Germany into the Holy Roman Empire and Prussia? You could have a spawning Prussia along with Austria and they would slowly disintegrate the Holy Roman Empire; to me this sounds the most historically accurate, just ask Leoreth, who is an adamant believer in this policy (and German too ).
11. The "Kingdom of Great Britain" did not exist in 1066
12. The centre of Anatolia is WAYY to fertile. It was and still is extremely semi-arid, with not much lushness to it. There are a lot of hills, it's a very "productive" area but not a fertile one, please fix that! And as I mentioned earlier, remove the deer (food) and add in salt (production)
13. A great event idea would be that of "William Wallace". Have a scripted barbarian invasion of a GG "William Wallace" and some Scottish troops (including pikemen) to spawn near Edinburgh, that would be one hell of an interesting even to see.

Here are a few questions:
1. What is the difference between the yellow and the normal UHV's?
2. Why do you get ivory from the philippines?
3. Whats the point of those random mountains in the middle of the Sahara?

Lastly:
Why not include Scotland and Ireland as unplayable civs? Or even in the case of Scotland, why no make them playable? I find it really strange that for a mod about Europe or little you seem to delve into it. Having even JUST a non-playable Scottish Empire would be really interesting, and I know that people have already created a Scottish Civilization which you can download on CFC.

Rejoice:
It would seem that Bakuel is working on European units for his next big release!

More comments coming soon......

 

[Opera]

Salt is more commerce than production though
(I mean, yield-wise currently)

 

[FakeShady]

1.The region of "Jerusalem" should be called instead "Palestine", it just sounds more authentic like that

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA sorry guys, i just cant resist!!!!!!!!

 

[3Miro]

First off, I want to say great work on the newest version of this mod, it looks really great!

Here are a few comments:

1.The region of "Jerusalem" should be called instead "Palestine", it just sounds more authentic like that
2. Please consider adding in Palermo or Syracuse to Sicily
3. There are still city ruins in Morocco, co-ordinates (22,22)
4. Although I don't disagree with it, what was the point of adding Lithuania to the game?
5. England is unhistorically bear before 1066. You should include the Anglo-Saxon culture which existed there before 1066. Bringing me to #6....
6. The Normans are not represented at ALL in Northern France. Please look into Rollo the Viking or check out Lars Browthworth's podcast on the Normans (on iTunes). I would therefore recommend a heavily fortified Rouen to spawn in Northern France which would spawn in 911, the year Rollo took command of Normandy as part of an agreement with the French King. So you could spawn an independent Catholic Rouen in 911 and in 1066 have an independent Rennes in Bretagne also flip to the Kingdom of England.
7. Wales was independent for quite some time, I would therefore recommend having some independent city stationed there, therefore forcing the player to build a city at the tip of England and flipping York. Than have the English player expand in Britain and Ireland first, before expanding to France.
Lastly about England: They should NOT start at war with France !

Spoiler :

Let the Human declare war on France by themselves or force the AI to declare war on France at a certain point in time if they have not done so already

8. Have an English army spawn outside of an independent London, and have them try to attack it and capture it. Think of SoI with the PoA and KoJ and even Leoreth's mod with the Ottomans having to first capture Constantinople. It would work the same way, and in general makes the most sense, as 1066 was an invasion not the beginning of a new civilization.
9. The German 2nd UHV to have "3 vassals" sounds a tad weak, and I don't see the relevance. Could this perhaps be changed to something else? I was even thinking along the lines of accumulating Religious points, especially considering how pious the German Emperors were.
10. Why not separate Germany into the Holy Roman Empire and Prussia? You could have a spawning Prussia along with Austria and they would slowly disintegrate the Holy Roman Empire; to me this sounds the most historically accurate, just ask Leoreth, who is an adamant believer in this policy (and German too ).
11. The "Kingdom of Great Britain" did not exist in 1066
12. The centre of Anatolia is WAYY to fertile. It was and still is extremely semi-arid, with not much lushness to it. There are a lot of hills, it's a very "productive" area but not a fertile one, please fix that! And as I mentioned earlier, remove the deer (food) and add in salt (production)
13. A great event idea would be that of "William Wallace". Have a scripted barbarian invasion of a GG "William Wallace" and some Scottish troops (including pikemen) to spawn near Edinburgh, that would be one hell of an interesting even to see.

Here are a few questions:
1. What is the difference between the yellow and the normal UHV's?
2. Why do you get ivory from the philippines?
3. Whats the point of those random mountains in the middle of the Sahara?

Lastly:
Why not include Scotland and Ireland as unplayable civs? Or even in the case of Scotland, why no make them playable? I find it really strange that for a mod about Europe or little you seem to delve into it. Having even JUST a non-playable Scottish Empire would be really interesting, and I know that people have already created a Scottish Civilization which you can download on CFC.

Rejoice:
It would seem that Bakuel is working on European units for his next big release!

More comments coming soon......

1. Jerusalem is a city province and hence it should stay Jerusalem (otherwise "capture Palestine" is hardly a good goal for a crusade)
2. We are considering Palermo.
3. City ruins are spread through out the map to represent the fall of Rome (and other Roman cities) to barbarians.
4. Lithuania was the largest European country for a period of about 200 years (and one of the largest for even longer). Its goal is to fill the void region in the map and give Moscow something else to do (other than just spam cities).
5. Almost every civilization existed before its "spawn" time.
6. The best we can do with the Normans is the idea of Norse UHV (settle Normandy), which then flips to England.
7. We may change the English/French spawn war.
8. We "settle" capitals, the other way would require big change in the dynamics. There were hardly any capitals in Europe that we truly settled in our time frame.
9. We are thinking about changing the German UHV.
10. Prussia comes 120 years after the Dutch (less than 100 playable turns). This will do no good. The best is to change the name of Germany and "shrink" them around that time.
11. Dynamic civ names are in a process of review.
12. Nerfing Anatolia may be a better way to fix the powerful Byzantium issue. Will think about it.
13. There are already plenty of barb uprisings in Scotland.

1. No difference, eventually we are going to give all UHV conditions a "name", we haven't gotten to all of them yet.
2. I don't know. There was some Ivory there, I don't know what the main trade during colonial times was.
3. Those have to do with autoplay, mercenaries and city flips. Rhye uses some ice in Antarctica, but we don't really have that (and it also causes some issues).

 

[kochman]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA sorry guys, i just cant resist!!!!!!!!

No kidding!
How ridiculous.
Please, rename a hugely famous/contested city for a territory that was never even a nation of its own and is today a hotbed of terrorist activity... especially considering the time period.

I hope it is called Palestine in the great "Sword of Islam" mod that I will never play.

Moderator Action: Please don't troll other people.

 

[FakeShady]

I hope it is called Palestine in the great "Sword of Islam" mod that I will never play.

Of course it is!

Guess what, i actually downloaded it and played it! I hated it though, but instead of whining about it on and on in the SoI forum on how Byzantium shouldn't be bankrupt after 30 turns even with research at 0%, all i did was delete it and never show up in the SoI world ever again. If some people doesnt like the fact that RFC:Europe is not and never will be SoI, maybe they should do the same

anyways

1.The region of "Jerusalem" should be called instead "Palestine", it just sounds more authentic like that

The best part is the authentic. LMAO. AWESOME! HALL OF FAME STUFF

 

[ezzlar]

Stop trolling. We have created a thread for you. I think you know the adress.

Moderator Action: Don't accuse anyone of trolling, that's seen as trolling itself.
And if you really see a troll, then report him.

 

[FakeShady]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA sorry guys, i just cant resist!!!!!!!!

sorry

EDIT: come to think about it, its actually not my fault if someone posts something so hilarious it makes me point it out and laugh at it.
Moderator Action: But you're still responsible for what you post here. And trollish comments aren ot allowed.

 

[The_J]

Moderator Action: Back to topic.

 

[Jusos2108]

This late progress with RFCE looks promising! At one point I was certain that it will die out, I am glad it didn't!

I will patch it and give you guys some feedback as soon as I can find some spare time.

...but instead of whining about it on and on in the SoI forum on how Byzantium shouldn't be bankrupt after 30 turns even with research at 0%[/B], all i did was delete it and never show up in the SoI world ever again.

You should give it another chance. If you know what are you are doing, it is possible to take over half of the map with Byzantine in SoI.

 

[kochman]

Wow, more yellow cards than the entire world cup final! It was probably needed though.
Message understood, sorry to those who are tired of the bickering. I will knock it off.

Moderator Action: Public discussion of moderator actions is not allowed in this forum. If you have a problem with an action, then either PM the responsible mod or one of the assigned super moderators.

 

[Leoreth]

If you want to replace the Jerusalem name with something that covers a larger region, but aren't okay with Palestine (won't discuss this for obvious reasons), there's also the term Outremer. Technically it refers to the whole Levant, but it was most often used to refer to the crusader states so UHV goals like "Capture Outremer" makes sense in a historical context.

 

[3Miro]

If you want to replace the Jerusalem name with something that covers a larger region, but aren't okay with Palestine (won't discuss this for obvious reasons), there's also the term Outremer. Technically it refers to the whole Levant, but it was most often used to refer to the crusader states so UHV goals like "Capture Outremer" makes sense in a historical context.

Jerusalem stays Jerusalem.

Almost everything in Civ IV revolves around cities, this is the main unit of "measure" for pretty much everything. We introduce the system of provinces to account for the fact that cities can be build and destroyed at random and we need intuitive, unambiguous and consistent way to refer to some or all cities in a particular region.

Most cities are "random", however, there is a number of cities that are fixed, those are either pre-build or spawning independents or capitals; hence we have several "city-provinces". A city-province is sufficiently clear and unambiguous. Jerusalem, Rome, Constantinople, London, Moscow ... The only semi-odd one is Ill-de-France, that was mostly there because that was the original wording for the UHV, we can safely merge that with either Orleans or Champagne (or expand it beyond just Paris).

As for Jerusalem, the target for the Crusades was Jerusalem. There were Crusades for Tunis or Egypt, but those are not included, we only consider the city of Jerusalem itself. Treaties between Crusaders and Muslims covered Jerusalem not the region around it.

 

[FakeShady]

You should give it another chance. If you know what are you are doing, it is possible to take over half of the map with Byzantine in SoI.

REALLY?!?!

With what, research at 0%? With ONE ARCHER per city and ONE MORE SUPER SPEARMAN in my capital??! With barbarians razing every single improvement i have instead of attacking my cities straight?? All this with crap production and zero commerce?
LMAO?!

No seriously, that mod makes me sick

Im not usually a whiner, so i cant understand why people whine. But now that you brought up the topic of SoI, i cant stop. Very well. I wont stop. I shall show everyone my amazing 30 minutes journey through SoI

9:30am So i download SoI. This mod has Byzantium! I thought. Should be fun
9:35 Er wow, you actually have to install it! Cool!!! Its like a brand new game in itself!!! Thumbs up!
9:45 Installation complete.
9:46 Select Civilisations. Er what, they changed Justinian's face?!? Now i get some funny Cyrus face leading Byzantium. Well... as long as he has good music. What... is... with the new UP??? +1 espionage in all cities?! WTH is that?? Espionage themed Byzantium? Oh well. Lets try this... Basel II guy.

9:48 Game start

Thumbs down 1: Select difficulty, Emir, Sultan, or Caliph? Er.. what? LMAO! WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Errr if i have to choose what i wanna be, of cos i wanna be Caliph, becos a Caliph has more power than a Sultan, right? No but really, if these guys even have to change such simple NAMES that doesnt even have any impact of gameplay to suit their own tastes... i sense a biased mod already. Whatever, the one in the middle should be "Monarch", so i pressed Sultan and continue.

Thumbs down 2: I have ONE archer per city, and one archer and one spearman in my capital. Cool beans. Oh well, im okay with that if there are no barbs... OH THERE ARE BARBS! OMGWTH, this barb called "peasant" has the same combat strength as my sppearman?!?!? Oh well, no big deal barbs die when they attack my cities so... OH NO NO NO DONT RAZE!!! DO ANYTHING BUT RAZE MY IMPROVMENTS!1 Guess what, thats all the barbs did. Raze and march on. Raze and march on. And theres a lotta them. With one archer per city, you cant do nuts against that. Oh, and your gold will be -10 per turn even with research at 0%. Yes thats right

Thumbs down 3: Open civilopedia. I wanna familiarize myself to this world. Okay lets see... some cool civics! Techonologies are foreign to me but... seems like a well thought of mod. Oh cool, a whole new concept... Titles!!! Ohh lets see... WTH.
The muslim title, "Leader of the Faithful", gives you +25% base piety, a lollipop, a mercedes benz, and many, many more bonuses!!! Seriously, a lot of bonuses. I cant remember what they are. And thats only a fraction of the Muslim titles!! There are still many more other muslim titles... all that requires islam as state religion Only fair i guess, this is a middle east mod... no but wait, The christian title, "Owner of the Holy Sepulchre", (notice how they avoid the words "faithful", or "leader". No, you just own it ) gives you +20% base peity. THATS IT. No lollipop, no candy floss, nothing else. THATS IT! Its not even enough to match the +25%, hello?! And the title is not any easier to get!

Thumbs down 4: The naming of everything. Yes of cos, Palestine is used. The word Israel came out a grand total of -123854395 times in the game. Everything in the game was carefully named to ensure they suit the tastes of their... main group of players

Thumbs down 5: Have i mentioned spread of Jews in your cities causes UNHAPPINESS? Yes, go figure that one yourself. Ohhh yes, and one more thing. As Byzantium, some Arabian Caliphate had a -7 relation to me for "You are an infidel" In my society, thats a taboo word. Besides, is it really that important that you must change "We are upset you have fallen under the sway of a heathen religion" to that?? At this point i lost respect for the mod

FINAL STRAW: As Byzantium, they changed my beloved Justinian's music to some... Orthodox chanting. Trust me, its nowhere as awesome at all. The other orthodox civ, Armenia i think, had awful music too. Just when i thought everyone's music in the game is boring... yet another arabian nation spawned. And guess what... They had some awesome, heroic Prince of Persia styled music i am serious. It sounded disney-like. I am a musician. I. Cannot. Tolerate. People. Who. Manipulate. Using. Music.

So there you have it, FakeShady's official review of SoI

EDIT: So conclusion, no Jusos i will not be giving SoI another chance unless they fix these problems, something i believe i will never see

Moderator Action: Don't spam. This post has nothing to do with this thread. Next time, post in the right thread.

 

[yogiebere]

gotta say I agree, SOI was pretty odd, didn't really enjoy it, especially since 50% of the civs are actually just crap, no argument

 

[The Turk]

Ok.... back on topic!

Jerusalem stays Jerusalem.

Fair enough, if its for the reason of the UHV I guess it makes sense.
Also I was wondering why the Ottomans start off with sooo many settlers? I mean, I built Bursa (with one settler) but I soon had several others. I would recommend cutting back on them. I also flipped quite a few settlers as well, so that might have been part of the problem as well.

Also I still feel the Bulgarians are WAYYY too strong. The Bulgarian First Empire never stretched from Venice to the entire Western coast of the Black Sea; nor do should they be one of the strongest factions in the game. I would recommend restricting them Bulgaria, but not all the way to the coast, or else they interfere with the Venetian spread (they tend not to expand too far ). Perhaps increasing the stability pressure on them would be a good idea, as they should collapse more often, and allow the Byzantines to capture one or two of their cities at least once in a while. Anyway I'm sure your in the process of making them weaker, for the next version.

I'll come out with more ideas later!

 

[FakeShady]

Fair enough, if its for the reason of the UHV I guess it makes sense.

Of course it makes sense. That city is called Jerusalem, so of course we call it Jerusalem.

Also I was wondering why the Ottomans start off with sooo many settlers?

Too many settlers? Thats all you think needs to be cut back? Settlers?

 

[Leoreth]

@FakeShady:
I don't want to discuss this review with you. So just two remarks:
1. Please stop suggesting all the time that the creator or the players of SoI are Muslim or have a Muslim or anti-Christian bias or whatnot. That's simply ridiculous.
2. If you don't like SoI and it's so bad you even can write this review, why don't you have the balls to post it in, I don't know, an actual SoI thread so edead can read your opinion and react to it, instead of posting it here where it has really absolutely no relevance to RFC Europe playtesting?

I may have already gone too far in this reaction, but I don't want to see this discussion continuing here, so if you have anything to say to me, do so per PM.

 

[ezzlar]

Ok.... back on topic!



Fair enough, if its for the reason of the UHV I guess it makes sense.
Also I was wondering why the Ottomans start off with sooo many settlers? I mean, I built Bursa (with one settler) but I soon had several others. I would recommend cutting back on them. I also flipped quite a few settlers as well, so that might have been part of the problem as well.

Also I still feel the Bulgarians are WAYYY too strong. The Bulgarian First Empire never stretched from Venice to the entire Western coast of the Black Sea; nor do should they be one of the strongest factions in the game. I would recommend restricting them Bulgaria, but not all the way to the coast, or else they interfere with the Venetian spread (they tend not to expand too far ). Perhaps increasing the stability pressure on them would be a good idea, as they should collapse more often, and allow the Byzantines to capture one or two of their cities at least once in a while. Anyway I'm sure your in the process of making them weaker, for the next version.

I'll come out with more ideas later!

I think the main problem with Venetia is a too strong Ragusa. Venetia would out-expand the bulgarians if the city was easier to capture.

The new bulgarian spawn is not too strong. Four Konniks with strength 7 (and -20% city attack) makes it easy to repel them.

 

[FakeShady]

@FakeShady:
I don't want to discuss this review with you. So just two remarks:
1. Please stop suggesting all the time that the creator or the players of SoI are Muslim or have a Muslim or anti-Christian bias or whatnot. That's simply ridiculous.
2. If you don't like SoI and it's so bad you even can write this review, why don't you have the balls to post it in, I don't know, an actual SoI thread so edead can read your opinion and react to it, instead of posting it here where it has really absolutely no relevance to RFC Europe playtesting?

I may have already gone too far in this reaction, but I don't want to see this discussion continuing here, so if you have anything to say to me, do so per PM.

I feel like i need to defend myself in public. I dont like SoI, but thats my problem, so i didnt whine at an SoI thread. All i did was delete it. I was simply telling Jusos why i WONT be giving SoI another chance.