RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[Veshta]

...
- You cannot prosecute a religion from cities where this religion is tied to one or more wonders/shrines. So if you play with Spain and want to win by UHVs, don't keep cities with such wonders...

That was changed as well? Last I had tried the wonder just evaporated along with the religion, was a while ago though Beta 9 I think.
But it only affects Spain I guess as they are the only ones with an interest in purging "the others", happiness hit from multiple rarely hit my games very hard as health puts a cap on most cities long before luxuries run out.

As for not needing Drama to ride a horse .. I have never in my life met a girl/boy that was into horses and NOT a drama-queen, so I beg to differ

 

[Ambreville]

The funny thing is that the Netherlands are barely represented in the mod despite the Dutch in the forum. However, in the scope of Europe our role was very minor so let's not try to buff them, we're cool with the fact that we are represented at all.

Alright, time to get offended: I demand the Monaco civ be added! Harumpf!

 

[Opera]

I usually don't play with Byzantium... because they're so damn frustrating. I always feel I'm playing to lose and have little ways to actually do something nice. I managed to crush the Bulgarians, which isn't quite hard, but still, watching your empire crumble away slowly... Ouch.

I guess it takes some kind of state of mind

 

[rock_star]

It would just very likely lead to fighting between Sweden and DK/Norway - who really have enough on their hands already. The Kalmar Union would be hard to work into it, an auto-vassalisation would not be fun for a swedish player, and if we don't force that, we would like see those two fighting each other at a time when they were united in a personal union. It could work in theory, but I'd guess there is lots of other stuff to prioritized before this.

From a game standpoint, I can see why the Gustav Vaasa approach was the one originally retained. What if there was an earlier Civ in Sweden, followed with a critical event in the 1500's when the House of Vaasa takes over? For the AI, the old Civ falters and is replaced with the normal Vaasa monarchy (not much change from the present version). For a live Sweden player, the choice becomes available to choose whether to remain part of the original ruling house or become the House of Vaasa. Shouldn't that address the issue?

The only problem I see is that the early presence of a separate civ in Sweden makes life so much harder for the Danes. Would a permanent alliance for a specific period actually work out, including co-UHV's???

Burgundy resurrects around 1335 no matter how solid the conquerer's stabililty is. If . . . IF . . . Sweden got an earlier spawn, the Norse could get a new UHV to conquer or vassalise Sweden by 1397, extending their UHV game quite a bit (I'm not a huge fan of their 3rd UHV - conquering their UHV lands should be enough to simulate the raids - while devastating, they did not often ravage targets in the sense Civ presents them as reduced to ruins, and in fact kept many targets intact so they could return to sack them again later). When 1523 arrives, the Swedes - if vassals - renounce the protection of the Norse regardless of independence criteria, or resurrect if conquered or collapsed.

However - what does Sweden do during this time? Outside founding the Rus' states in the viking age, their true fame was their military brilliance during the imperial age, and their current UHVs represent this perfectly.

I also mentioned in the conditional UU thread that in order to build Hakkapellita, the Swedes should get a source of horses in Finland. Even without implementing the new UUs/mercs, I think Finland should have a horse added, since cavalry were crucial to the Gustavan military successes. Placing it in the East would entice them to settle further, and lead to more conflict with Muscovy. The horses are a bit hard to access in trade, as the AI demands extortionate resource trade in return (which Sweden doesn't start with much of), or demands steep amounts of gold(which is difficult for a new-born civ to sustain with no infrastructure in place).

The idea is not completely stupid though - could mean the annoying UHV of getting to Crimea could be removed from the Norse, and having a Swedish civ earlier would open up the door for interactions between them and the Kievan Rus etc.; it would not be very easy to get to work in-game though. Anyway, my "vote" would be that we save this for a later day, and focus on other issues first.

I've said it before, but Crimea for the Norse is not really accurate. Yes, Scaninavians did settle in the Crimea, but they were the Goths, not Vikings. While these may have been the same people on a genetic level, they were different cultures, from different times. Novgorod makes much more sense, and is a more fitting change. I think the Crimea could even be changed to unstable, given the only true "viking" presence there was after they'd been slavicised into the Rus', which itself doesn't really count as viking any longer.

 

[The Turk]

Rock Star I like what your getting at, but why can't the Viking Swedes just be represented by a couple independent cities in Sweden. I just think between reworking the mercenaries the civilisation unique names, adding more/better unique unit artstyles, I don't see what the point is of having a weak Sweden that's supposed to spawn early, and get defeated/vassalized by the Norse is. I would much prefer Sweden spawning late, with AI directions leading it to Finland and flipping a couple of the independent cities in Sweden, I think that makes more sense overall. Currently I think the Norse too need to get a boost in their raids, so I don't know if splitting up their territory from that early on is such a good idea, as it will only make them weaker.


And after the team spent quite a while perfecting the Norse 3rd UHV, I don't know if it's fair to just remove it like that, plus I think its a very unique idea for a UHV as well.

 

[Veshta]

It's actually a good idea to have some independents spawn over time in Sweden as half the time the silly Norse never go East and the SWE spawn is completely unsettled/unimproved which makes the war based UHVs quite tedious not to mention hard.

Question is when/where?

Stockholm (SWE Spawn) and Norkoping (2SW of SWE Spawn) are both from 13th century according to Wiki, so either one would be good (prefer Norkoping's location though )
There is also Gavle from the 15th century (up by northern fish/amber) which could make a good candidate.
Lund and Kalmar are both older cities founded by Vikings but outside the SWE flipzone thus not applicable.
Gothenburg is almost brand new, from 1620's, so not applicable.

Kind of surprised at the age of SWE cities, always assumed they kicked off around the same time as we Danes and the Norwegians ..

 

[The Turk]

I think having an independent Kalmar (and Lund) would be a good idea, as they could easily be taken by the Swedish afterwards. Not to mention Kalmar was a very important Coastal town

 

[Morholt]

Uppsala obviously (~3rd century). Also Skara (10th century). Maybe Linköping (12th century)? Norrköping was not a significant city until the 17th century.

 

[The Turk]

PLEASE ADD THESE

 

[Michael Vick]

I think having an independent Kalmar (and Lund) would be a good idea, as they could easily be taken by the Swedish afterwards. Not to mention Kalmar was a very important Coastal town

Agreed, Kalmar. It usually looks good to some players to see the city of a wonder present in the game. When they see it, they are enticed to build it there sometimes. I choose Kalmar over Uppsala though because it's bigger and overall more important.

 

[merijn_v1]

PLEASE ADD THESE

Which buttons should the replace? I don't mind adding them, but there is no reason adding them just because they're nice.

 

[The Turk]

Which buttons should the replace? I don't mind adding them, but there is no reason adding them just because they're nice.

I would replace ones where you don't have a unique art for it, and it looks rather ambiguous. Its really up to you, I will have a look at them later, but the buttons really seem to fit this mod!

 

[mitts]

Just came back to RFCE after a while. I really enjoyed how much the mod has been improved in the past year or so since i tried it.

I was doing a genoa game and trying for the uhv. I've attached a save when i thought i should have got the last uhv requirement (2 corps and 8 banks) Now i think i have everything for this, since i founded corps in genova and milano, and have a bank in each city. I bought the last bank the previous turn in tunis but didnt get the uhv. Any ideas?

Also, the first uhv requirement says that i need to take marseilles but it's not in one of the required provinces. In the end i left it, still met the condition, and captured it later. Not sure what's up with that.

 

[rock_star]

It's actually a good idea to have some independents spawn over time in Sweden as half the time the silly Norse never go East and the SWE spawn is completely unsettled/unimproved which makes the war based UHVs quite tedious not to mention hard.

Question is when/where?

Stockholm (SWE Spawn) and Norkoping (2SW of SWE Spawn) are both from 13th century according to Wiki, so either one would be good (prefer Norkoping's location though )
There is also Gavle from the 15th century (up by northern fish/amber) which could make a good candidate.
Lund and Kalmar are both older cities founded by Vikings but outside the SWE flipzone thus not applicable.
Gothenburg is almost brand new, from 1620's, so not applicable.

Kind of surprised at the age of SWE cities, always assumed they kicked off around the same time as we Danes and the Norwegians ..

My understanding is that most Swedish cities are fairly modern, and that they overwhelmed the original important cities in their area (IE Sigtuna > Stockholm) while others lost their importance over the years (like Birka). If we added indy cities, they could change names on conquest/spawn to their modern Swedish names (not quite accurate, but it could work). The only problem is - at least with Sigtuna/Stockholm - doesn't a city on a civ's spawn plot get auto-razed when said civ spawns? Or is that only vanilla RFC?

 

[Cosmos1985]

A quick question: where can you change the number of units allowed? Want to increase the number of possible executives slightly, but can't find out how

 

[AbsintheRed]

RFCEurope\Assets\XML\Units\CIV4UnitClassInfos.xml

		<UnitClassInfo>
			<Type>UNITCLASS_EXECUTIVE_1</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_UNIT_EXECUTIVE_1</Description>
			<iMaxGlobalInstances>-1</iMaxGlobalInstances>
			<iMaxTeamInstances>-1</iMaxTeamInstances>
			<iMaxPlayerInstances>1</iMaxPlayerInstances>
			<iInstanceCostModifier>0</iInstanceCostModifier>
			<DefaultUnit>UNIT_EXECUTIVE_1</DefaultUnit>
		</UnitClassInfo>
		<UnitClassInfo>
			<Type>UNITCLASS_EXECUTIVE_2</Type>
			<Description>CHANGED_TXT_KEY_UNIT_EXECUTIVE_2</Description>
			<iMaxGlobalInstances>-1</iMaxGlobalInstances>
			<iMaxTeamInstances>-1</iMaxTeamInstances>
			<iMaxPlayerInstances>1</iMaxPlayerInstances>
			<iInstanceCostModifier>0</iInstanceCostModifier>
			<DefaultUnit>UNIT_EXECUTIVE_2</DefaultUnit>
		</UnitClassInfo>
		<UnitClassInfo>
			<Type>UNITCLASS_EXECUTIVE_3</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_UNIT_EXECUTIVE_3</Description>
			<iMaxGlobalInstances>-1</iMaxGlobalInstances>
			<iMaxTeamInstances>-1</iMaxTeamInstances>
			<iMaxPlayerInstances>1</iMaxPlayerInstances>
			<iInstanceCostModifier>0</iInstanceCostModifier>
			<DefaultUnit>UNIT_EXECUTIVE_3</DefaultUnit>
		</UnitClassInfo>
		<UnitClassInfo>
			<Type>UNITCLASS_EXECUTIVE_4</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_UNIT_EXECUTIVE_4</Description>
			<iMaxGlobalInstances>-1</iMaxGlobalInstances>
			<iMaxTeamInstances>-1</iMaxTeamInstances>
			<iMaxPlayerInstances>1</iMaxPlayerInstances>
			<iInstanceCostModifier>0</iInstanceCostModifier>
			<DefaultUnit>UNIT_EXECUTIVE_4</DefaultUnit>
		</UnitClassInfo>
		<UnitClassInfo>
			<Type>UNITCLASS_EXECUTIVE_5</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_UNIT_EXECUTIVE_5</Description>
			<iMaxGlobalInstances>-1</iMaxGlobalInstances>
			<iMaxTeamInstances>-1</iMaxTeamInstances>
			<iMaxPlayerInstances>1</iMaxPlayerInstances>
			<iInstanceCostModifier>0</iInstanceCostModifier>
			<DefaultUnit>UNIT_EXECUTIVE_5</DefaultUnit>
		</UnitClassInfo>
		<UnitClassInfo>
			<Type>UNITCLASS_EXECUTIVE_6</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_UNIT_EXECUTIVE_6</Description>
			<iMaxGlobalInstances>-1</iMaxGlobalInstances>
			<iMaxTeamInstances>-1</iMaxTeamInstances>
			<iMaxPlayerInstances>1</iMaxPlayerInstances>
			<iInstanceCostModifier>0</iInstanceCostModifier>
			<DefaultUnit>UNIT_EXECUTIVE_6</DefaultUnit>
		</UnitClassInfo>
		<UnitClassInfo>
			<Type>UNITCLASS_EXECUTIVE_7</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_UNIT_EXECUTIVE_7</Description>
			<iMaxGlobalInstances>-1</iMaxGlobalInstances>
			<iMaxTeamInstances>-1</iMaxTeamInstances>
			<iMaxPlayerInstances>1</iMaxPlayerInstances>
			<iInstanceCostModifier>0</iInstanceCostModifier>
			<DefaultUnit>UNIT_EXECUTIVE_7</DefaultUnit>
		</UnitClassInfo>

Set the <iMaxPlayerInstances>1</iMaxPlayerInstances> to the number you like

 

[AbsintheRed]

Just came back to RFCE after a while. I really enjoyed how much the mod has been improved in the past year or so since i tried it.

I was doing a genoa game and trying for the uhv. I've attached a save when i thought i should have got the last uhv requirement (2 corps and 8 banks) Now i think i have everything for this, since i founded corps in genova and milano, and have a bank in each city. I bought the last bank the previous turn in tunis but didnt get the uhv. Any ideas?

Also, the first uhv requirement says that i need to take marseilles but it's not in one of the required provinces. In the end i left it, still met the condition, and captured it later. Not sure what's up with that.

The first Genoan UHV is changed for the upcoming Beta 12:
Corsica, Sardinia, Crete, Rhodes and Crimea in 1566 IIRC.

The banking UHV is probably broken
Will try to look into it, but probably 3Miro could find this bug much easier

 

[Morholt]

My understanding is that most Swedish cities are fairly modern, and that they overwhelmed the original important cities in their area (IE Sigtuna > Stockholm) while others lost their importance over the years (like Birka).

This is the same in every country though? There are plenty of old cities in Sweden.

My suggestions for indy cities in Sweden, in rough order of preference (not all of these at the same time, of course!):


Uppsala:
Founded before the game's start.
Pros: Has always been one of the most significant cities in Sweden, still is. Oldest university in the Nordic countries. Has a wonder associated with it. If you want one city to represent Sweden pre 1250, this is it.
Cons: Somewhat close to Stockholm. On top of a timber resource with the current map. Fairly low on food.

Kalmar
Founded in ~1100.
Pros: Historically significant Hanseatic city, has a wonder, the Kalmar Union. Good spot.
Cons: Was eclipsed in the 17th century by Karlskrona.

Åbo
Founded in ~1250.
Pros: The capital and most significant city of Finland until the end of the game's timeline. AI Sweden badly need a city in Finland to flip to them, they never expand well there (and they did historically, all of Finland was conquered by 1300). Even today Åbo is majority Swedish speaking.
Cons: Somewhat late spawn. Will require tweaking Sweden's flip area.

Skara
Founded in 988.
Pros: Main centre of Christianity in early medieval Sweden. Major city during the middle ages, main historical city of Westrogothia.
Cons: Lost most of its significance by the time the Swedes spawn.

Linköping
Founded in ~1100.
Pros: Main historical city of Ostrogothia, old centre of learning.
Cons: Spot close to Kalmar, not as significant as the others.

 

[The Turk]

Awesome work Morholt!

I would like to see Uppsala, Kalmar and Abo added, IMO these seem to be the best independent city options. As for Uppsala being too close to Stockholm, we can have it shrink into a "town" improvement, right before the Swedish spawn, therefore not obstructing the capital.

 

[merijn_v1]

I like Uppsala and Kalmar. We shouldn't add to much preplaced cities, otherwise it would determine the game to much.