RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[BurnEmDown]

Well I don't know much about the ottomans but I do know that in Al-Andalus and most of the Arab world (North Africa, the Levant, Mesopotamia) they were treated very well. One change I would like which I'm sure you'll agree with me is, that Judaism in the early game will be focused in different parts of the ex-roman empire, that is Anatolia, Italy, the Dalmatian coast, France and Iberia, and when Judaism will be prosecuted in Iberia it will more likely spread to Northern Africa, and from France to the east, Germany and Poland.
If that's not possible (over-represented Judaism). Then just have Judaism be 90% of the games in Cordoba, with another 90% of it moved to North Africa if it'll be prosecuted, and also more chances of Judaism appearing in Poland.

 

[jessiecat]

Well as Kaiser said it's all relative, of course I wouldn't like being treated differently just because I'm a Jew in Muslim-controlled Iberia but it beats being hunted with torches and being forcibly converted, of course those things happened in the Muslim part of Iberia and other Muslim controlled areas but they were a lot less frequent than in Christian lands.
Basically I'm trying to say that living as a Jew in Muslim lands was much easier than in Christian lands in the middle ages.

On balance. I think you've got that just about right.

 

[Panopticon]

Have I made a mistake with my modding, or does Moscow begin with a huge score deficit, behind everyone else, and a big tech deficit?

 

[KaiserBenjamin]

Have I made a mistake with my modding, or does Moscow begin with a huge score deficit, behind everyone else, and a big tech deficit?

I noticed that in my last game as well...

 

[3Miro]

I think the problem is that the tech level is too fast for everyone. In older games Moscow was just about right, but now it is well behind.

 

[KaiserKevin]

Kievan Rus coastal UHV is too easy, the AI gets it everytime. The first time through I thought it meant you had to have cultural influence on every coast tile across, but it seems you simply have to not let other civs have anything there. In any case I haven't seen it not get accomplished.

Speaking of Kievan UHV why do they have the exact same goal as Bulgaria? Seems kinda lame, need more creativity. Change one of them for sure. The grain goal was pretty cool, but building the same buildings as a UHV for 2 of the 4 Orthodox nations seems redundant :/

 

[FakeShady]

I think the problem is that the tech level is too fast for everyone. In older games Moscow was just about right, but now it is well behind.

The tech rate is good. Please dont decrease it or the same old thing is just gonna happen again (late civs too much advantage, Protestantism founded too late or unable to complete tech tree). What should be done however is giving later civs like Moscow some more techs. Then everyone would be happy no?

 

[Opera]

Hey, you could still try to use the Dynamic Starts feature created by jmerry.

 

[JediClemente]

kochman, I think you should not judge history based on your contemporary prejudices. We're talking Middle Ages and Renaissance here. Phrases like "they're evil" seem very out of place.

Religious prosecutions in Europe were far more frequent than in the Middle East. As far as the 1500s. This is fact. Please don't be so short-minded.

Just saying.

My main problem with religions in RFCE is that Islam should NOT expand itself to other cities automatically. Muslims did spread their faith by the sword. At least in the region of the map that RFCE covers. Only missionaries, Seljuks (can't they also erase Orthodoxy?) and the Arabic UP.

And yes, more jews please. Esp. in Iberia.

 

[JediClemente]

Concerning research: yes, it can be too fast some times. Depends whether some civs are collapsed earlier or not. But there has to be a compromise. Astronomy MUST be researched before the Dutch spawn. Same as Printing Press.

Also have in mind now with Venezia without Republic, things have slowed down a bit.

So here is the list, I tried to be more organized this time by assembling them into groups

Hi The Turk.

England: it will start with a galley already. Resources have also been changed a bit.
But I like it as the islands are, mostly. My main concern is that even after fixing the "AI doesn't load into ships" problem England never settles Ireland, and of course doesn't take Dublin. I'm looking into it.
The french cities the english flip are not always the same. Sometimes they can keep them, sometimes not.
The normans are of course represented by the english spawn date.

Cordoba (for starters I'll say just this once: the civ name is wrong): cordobans are a bit stronger than in previous versions. I don't really know why they don't settle more of Morocco. But Northern Africa is well represented. It was mostly "empty", safe for the important cities that are already there. They're doomed to collapse anyway.

Ottomans: the AI is in some games capable of taking the historical territory of the Empire. The main problem now is they're afraid to conquer Constantinople (because of the insane defense bonus). And they need to be not that technologically backwards at start. I also find the UP very uninteresting. And the AI doesn't use it.

Spain: They will have an extra catapult and swordsman. They fare considerably better like that. Perhaps too much. But I was tired of them always turtling around in 3 cities. We can always take that back later.

The Map: please no more independents. There are far enough already. As I said, North Africa was an uninteresting area. The islands are fine. They are settled now. Nevermind Sicily. The AI already leaves Naples alone.

There are also too many dense forests already!!!

 

[3Miro]

The tech rate is good. Please dont decrease it or the same old thing is just gonna happen again (late civs too much advantage, Protestantism founded too late or unable to complete tech tree). What should be done however is giving later civs like Moscow some more techs. Then everyone would be happy no?

Printing Press should be researched before Sweden spawns, but I think 1300 is a bit early for that. And some techs follow too easily from there. Perhaps decreasing the tech rate for everyone would be too much, however, we could tweak individual techs. I will do some experiments.

 

[3Miro]

My main problem with religions in RFCE is that Islam should NOT expand itself to other cities automatically. Muslims did spread their faith by the sword. At least in the region of the map that RFCE covers. Only missionaries, Seljuks (can't they also erase Orthodoxy?) and the Arabic UP.

And yes, more jews please. Esp. in Iberia.

I can make Seljuks spread Islam and have a chance to remove non-Islamic faith from the city. I will also try to play with the Jewish code, but I don't promise anything for the next version.

 

[The Turk]

Well although I do agree that Judaism should spread more to Spain especially, but something which is even more important is making sure that when Spain starts its reconquista, there would be a spawned army with inquistors to reclaim Spain, something which the AI dosen't do, think of it as the "discoverers event" in RFC. Also no, I don't think it would be smart to get rid of religion once Islam spread to that city, in fact thats really stupid if anything

 

[kochman]

It wouldn't be stupid at all, slaughters of "infidels", which as we all know includes "people of the book", were QUITE common. Islam was not spread through choice, but by the sword. I mean, it still happens to this day!

 

[kochman]

kochman, I think you should not judge history based on your contemporary prejudices. We're talking Middle Ages and Renaissance here. Phrases like "they're evil" seem very out of place.

Thanks for your input on how you think I should post... but I will call it how I see it. The Ottoman Empire was evil, and it was recognized as evil by most of Europe, Protestant/Catholic/Orthodox, at the time. This isn't just a recent revelation.

 

[embryodead]

It wouldn't be stupid at all, slaughters of "infidels", which as we all know includes "people of the book", were QUITE common. Islam was not spread through choice, but by the sword.

So was Christianity. Also, you realize that "infidel" is a Christian term (der. from Latin) for non-believers, esp. Muslims? An equivalent in Arabic would be kafir.

Slaughtering the infidels would be fun, however, no matter what religion you represent. Medieval: Total War has this wonderful option of slaughtering the populace upon city capture - a very good option, I might add, when the population is mostly of a different faith and would keep revolting. You could capture Jerusalem, and then have a popup (or rather, a new option in the raze/no raze popup) to massacre all the Jews and Muslims, just like crusaders did. You'd lose part of city population, but would also get rid of religious instability. AI behavior would be civ-based, as usual. Inspired by MTW and this discussion, I'd like to try coding this, for myself and RFCE if people are interested.

 

[3Miro]

Well although I do agree that Judaism should spread more to Spain especially, but something which is even more important is making sure that when Spain starts its reconquista, there would be a spawned army with inquistors to reclaim Spain, something which the AI dosen't do, think of it as the "discoverers event" in RFC. Also no, I don't think it would be smart to get rid of religion once Islam spread to that city, in fact thats really stupid if anything

That is what the Defensive Crusade is supposed to do. It will happen in a war between Spain and Al Andulas, the main problem is that Toledo is ridiculously hard to conquer, with it being on a hill and all (for the AI anyway, the human can be creative).

Islam would not replace a religion. Only Seljuks would do that and not 100% of the time.

 

[3Miro]

So was Christianity. Also, you realize that "infidel" is a Christian term (der. from Latin) for non-believers, esp. Muslims? An equivalent in Arabic would be kafir.

Slaughtering the infidels would be fun, however, no matter what religion you represent. Medieval: Total War has this wonderful option of slaughtering the populace upon city capture - a very good option, I might add, when the population is mostly of a different faith and would keep revolting. You could capture Jerusalem, and then have a popup (or rather, a new option in the raze/no raze popup) to massacre all the Jews and Muslims, just like crusaders did. You'd lose part of city population, but would also get rid of religious instability. AI behavior would be civ-based, as usual. Inspired by MTW and this discussion, I'd like to try coding this, for myself and RFCE if people are interested.

You can do that right now. Just bring some prosecutors with your army.

 

[kochman]

So was Christianity. Also, you realize that "infidel" is a Christian term (der. from Latin) for non-believers, esp. Muslims? An equivalent in Arabic would be kafir.

Slaughtering the infidels would be fun, however, no matter what religion you represent. Medieval: Total War has this wonderful option of slaughtering the populace upon city capture - a very good option, I might add, when the population is mostly of a different faith and would keep revolting. You could capture Jerusalem, and then have a popup (or rather, a new option in the raze/no raze popup) to massacre all the Jews and Muslims, just like crusaders did. You'd lose part of city population, but would also get rid of religious instability. AI behavior would be civ-based, as usual. Inspired by MTW and this discussion, I'd like to try coding this, for myself and RFCE if people are interested.

It is true that Christianity was partially spread by the sword, not completely, like Islam. There were many areas that adopted Christianity without being conquered. Thanks for the language lessons also, I know the word "infidel" in English, and "kafir" is arabic though... This board is in English.

The Koran is a recipe for making the entire world Islamic, by force if necessary. The Bible is not... this is the key difference. In the medieval ages, Christians were behaving badly per the teachings of Christ; the Muslims were actually doing exactly what they were told to do by their messenger.

 

[embryodead]

You can do that right now. Just bring some prosecutors with your army.

But that doesn't kill the population, does it? (I don't remember, but I think it doesn't) Also, the AI doesn't seem to produce them, and certainly wouldn't bring a whole army.